Sweat my break. I mean critique my break please..

[Cdryden]

Your break isn't bad, I just think you as well as most people have gone about it wrong. We all try to hit the rack really hard when we first start and then we try to control our aim at warp speed. I think it is better to learn to break with a softer very controlled stroke and gradually build up the speed while monitoring your fundamentals. Then once you have gotten your break speed back up to where you want it you will notice that you are much more fluid in your stoke which will give you allot more power with less effort.
Think of it like driving a golf ball. The first time a person try's to drive a golf ball off a tee it usually doesn't go well because they haven't developed a proper swing but if you get them to slow down they will immediately improve.

Oh and to Blackjack, I understood what you meant about free advice but this forum was MADE for just this purpose. And while its probably not a issue for the OP some people just cant afford the training.

 

[Junkyarddog]

I appreciate the responses. However, at this time, power and velocity is my only concern. I actually can hit the one ball very very square when thats my entire focus. So at this time, especially when practicing the break I have to try to hit them as hard as possible.

If power and velocity are your only concerns you will never have a good break. Concern number one should be control. It doesn't matter if you can break at 30mph if you don't know where the cue is going.

As for free advice try moving your bridge hand an inch back to reduce the follow you are putting on the ball. Follow will reduce the drive into the rack by putting draw on the head ball. Stun or very very slight draw will give you better results. Good luck.

 

[Blackjack]

Blackjack- That has to be one of the most condescending comments to any post I've put in this forum or any other. Just so you'll know, I have sought instruction from people like: Jim McDermott, Matlock, B.Hall, among others, at which I paid!! I play at a decent level but i'm actually looking at improving on one of thes most important aspescts of this game. I never actually sought quote & unqoute "free advice". If you have nothing better to do than throw in rude comments and so called "two cents" worth of advice then why stop by this post and offer any input? Simply move on! You may teach BCA pool and it give 14.1 advice, but I'm sure you can't break over 25 mph, so why would I care what you think? Its not I sought you out and asked; hey blackjack can you show me how to follow through or how can i establich better break balls? No, I didn't. So please have a little courtesy unless I single you out for free advice when I know you charge for it. To all other members, I know people Blackjack has mucho amounts of credibility here, and I'm not trying to stir trouble, but come on, this guy is slightly out of line and someone needs to tell him...

Clint,
I bascially said you get what you pay for. I'm out of line from your perspective, but I'm not out of line from mine. I sit here from the perspective of someone that does this for a living. So yes, I think that everytime it is offered for free, someone loses money and its not always me losing the money. That irritates me as well as many instructors that work hard to make ends meet. If you think that its rude or out of line for me to speak up about that, then we can agree to disagree. You won't be the first person in the world to write me off as an assshole - but hopefully you will hear me out before you do that.

I believe that instruction has to have a value placed on it. A lot of time and energy goes into acquring that knowledge - it has value. Lately, several threads have sprouted up where people are asking for free critiques to their videos, and it just rubs me the wrong way because that is what I do. I'm sure that you would be ticked off if someone moved in next door and offered what you do for "free". Then imagine how you'd react if you were called rude and out of line for speaking up about it? I'm just being honest about how I feel.

I'm not saying you're a bad guy for asking people to look at your video, or that you're a bad guy because you didn't come to me (specifically) and pay for it. What I am saying is that free critiques will affect all instructors eventually. There are those that believe that it will help business, but in the long run it really doesn't. I lose enough $$$ in bootlegged material every year to call it "significant". It gets frustrating and I'm not willing to write off anything else, or ignore the things that hurt all instructors.

I apologize for using your thread as a medium to voice my frustration, but I do not apologize for having my opinion. My opinion is based upon the topic of free video critiques, not you personally. Hopefully that goes both ways. If not, PM me and I'll discuss this with you over the phone to better clarify my stance and to clear up any animosity my comments may have caused. I'd rather do that because I do not having the luxury of debating this all day long over the internet.

 

[Jadssons]

Clint,
I bascially said you get what you pay for. I'm out of line from your perspective, but I'm not out of line from mine. I sit here from the perspective of someone that does this for a living. So yes, I think that everytime it is offered for free, someone loses money and its not always me losing the money. That irritates me as well as many instructors that work hard to make ends meet. If you think that its rude or out of line for me to speak up about that, then we can agree to disagree. You won't be the first person in the world to write me off as an assshole - but hopefully you will hear me out before you do that.

I believe that instruction has to have a value placed on it. A lot of time and energy goes into acquring that knowledge - it has value. Lately, several threads have sprouted up where people are asking for free critiques to their videos, and it just rubs me the wrong way because that is what I do. I'm sure that you would be ticked off if someone moved in next door and offered what you do for "free". Then imagine how you'd react if you were called rude and out of line for speaking up about it? I'm just being honest about how I feel.

I'm not saying you're a bad guy for asking people to look at your video, or that you're a bad guy because you didn't come to me (specifically) and pay for it. What I am saying is that free critiques will affect all instructors eventually. There are those that believe that it will help business, but in the long run it really doesn't. I lose enough $$$ in bootlegged material every year to call it "significant". It gets frustrating and I'm not willing to write off anything else, or ignore the things that hurt all instructors.

I apologize for using your thread as a medium to voice my frustration, but I do not apologize for having my opinion. My opinion is based upon the topic of free video critiques, not you personally. Hopefully that goes both ways. If not, PM me and I'll discuss this with you over the phone to better clarify my stance and to clear up any animosity my comments may have caused. I'd rather do that because I do not having the luxury of debating this all day long over the internet.

So, when someone asks "how would you play this shot?" or "can you identify this cue?", does this mean that no one should give them any advice because someone that buys and sells cues "loses money" or an instructor "loses money"? Give the guy a break (no pun intended), he just wanted some feedback on a public forum.

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[Cdryden]

Clint,
I bascially said you get what you pay for. I'm out of line from your perspective, but I'm not out of line from mine. I sit here from the perspective of someone that does this for a living. So yes, I think that everytime it is offered for free, someone loses money and its not always me losing the money. That irritates me as well as many instructors that work hard to make ends meet. If you think that its rude or out of line for me to speak up about that, then we can agree to disagree. You won't be the first person in the world to write me off as an assshole - but hopefully you will hear me out before you do that.

I believe that instruction has to have a value placed on it. A lot of time and energy goes into acquring that knowledge - it has value. Lately, several threads have sprouted up where people are asking for free critiques to their videos, and it just rubs me the wrong way because that is what I do. I'm sure that you would be ticked off if someone moved in next door and offered what you do for "free". Then imagine how you'd react if you were called rude and out of line for speaking up about it? I'm just being honest about how I feel.

I'm not saying you're a bad guy for asking people to look at your video, or that you're a bad guy because you didn't come to me (specifically) and pay for it. What I am saying is that free critiques will affect all instructors eventually. There are those that believe that it will help business, but in the long run it really doesn't. I lose enough $$$ in bootlegged material every year to call it "significant". It gets frustrating and I'm not willing to write off anything else, or ignore the things that hurt all instructors.

I apologize for using your thread as a medium to voice my frustration, but I do not apologize for having my opinion. My opinion is based upon the topic of free video critiques, not you personally. Hopefully that goes both ways. If not, PM me and I'll discuss this with you over the phone to better clarify my stance and to clear up any animosity my comments may have caused. I'd rather do that because I do not having the luxury of debating this all day long over the internet.

EVERYONE here has gotten free advice and most likely solicited free advice at some point in their pool playing career. If every time someone asked a question and got the answer pay me for it and i'll tell ya, we would live in a very dumb society. Now, I get what you are saying about this effecting your living but I think the advice given here on this thread is probably insignificant compared to the training you would be able to give a person if they were to hire you for instruction.

 

[Neil]

............

 

[elvicash]

I have a few thoughts not the I am the hardest breaker. One thing I notice is you go up but then you comne forward without coming down. I think if you came down as you stroke then you get the help of gravity adding to your break. Bridge should be down and stay down pressed into the table.

Take alot off your break and exagerate the break in slow motion and focus on square hit, doing some of this prior to the hard/faster speeds will help with your accuracy as you elevate the speed.

When you break and hit it square and the cue ball pops back just past the side pockets moves forward a touch and dies right in the middle of the table you will have a real weapon.

 

[getsome01]

??????????????

wow. thats all i can say about blackjacks reply. wow! and maybe "lighten the f up"

 

[Jadssons]

What I do on here with the "how would you play this" threads, and what the OP is asking for are two very different things. I basically am teaching people to think while at the table. To see what is available, and that not all shots have to be the 'cookie cutter' shots. Sometimes, thinking outside the box can pay great dividends.

What the OP asked for, and what Dave does is something different. Mine is generic, Dave's is specific. When someone can't afford lessons, or doesn't have access to lessons, then the route Dave offers is a very viable solution. And, it comes from someone that you know knows what they are talking about. Many times on here, you will get responses from people that some of us just shake our head, and wonder where they came up with that from. In other words, bad advice.

Something like the OP asked for, which is not general in content, should have a price tag put on it. Sure, it never hurts to ask for something free, but like Dave said, you might very well get what you paid. A critique like he asked for, is basically asking for a free lesson on specifics. Not on generalities. Big difference IMHO.

Where did the OP ask for specifics like, "Am I standing straight up enough?", or "Is my left arm bent too much?'..he didn't. He asked people on a public forum to ctitique his break. He has obviously invested money into a break-rak and has been working on his own time to improve his break. Asking someone to critique him on a public forum is not out of line in ANY way.

He may get some good advice and he may get some poor advice, but that's the risk he takes when asking the public. He has to choose which critiques he thinks will be constructive and help him, if any.

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[Mike in MN]

Clint, please repeat the following to yourself: The break is about control, not power. I don't think you need to stand up more. I don't think you need to throw your hips into it more. I don't think you need to "follow through" more. (All things other members have recommended thus far).

I think your stance is fine, just work on control. You're hitting the ball very hard, which in itself is a skill. However, with that comes a loss of control. There is a very fine line between enough power and too much power, and it looks like you're generating more than enough with your current set up.

If I were you, I'd take a little off my break - maybe hit at 80% of that or so - and focus wholly on controlling the cue ball. (Where it hits the rack, and where it ends up after).

 

[TATE]

Clint,
I bascially said you get what you pay for. I'm out of line from your perspective, but I'm not out of line from mine. I sit here from the perspective of someone that does this for a living. So yes, I think that everytime it is offered for free, someone loses money and its not always me losing the money. That irritates me as well as many instructors that work hard to make ends meet. If you think that its rude or out of line for me to speak up about that, then we can agree to disagree. You won't be the first person in the world to write me off as an assshole - but hopefully you will hear me out before you do that.

I believe that instruction has to have a value placed on it. A lot of time and energy goes into acquring that knowledge - it has value. Lately, several threads have sprouted up where people are asking for free critiques to their videos, and it just rubs me the wrong way because that is what I do. I'm sure that you would be ticked off if someone moved in next door and offered what you do for "free". Then imagine how you'd react if you were called rude and out of line for speaking up about it? I'm just being honest about how I feel.

I'm not saying you're a bad guy for asking people to look at your video, or that you're a bad guy because you didn't come to me (specifically) and pay for it. What I am saying is that free critiques will affect all instructors eventually. There are those that believe that it will help business, but in the long run it really doesn't. I lose enough $$$ in bootlegged material every year to call it "significant". It gets frustrating and I'm not willing to write off anything else, or ignore the things that hurt all instructors.

I apologize for using your thread as a medium to voice my frustration, but I do not apologize for having my opinion. My opinion is based upon the topic of free video critiques, not you personally. Hopefully that goes both ways. If not, PM me and I'll discuss this with you over the phone to better clarify my stance and to clear up any animosity my comments may have caused. I'd rather do that because I do not having the luxury of debating this all day long over the internet.

Blackjack,

I didn't know that one of your services was to critique videos or offer suggestions that way. Interesting.

As you can see, the advice is all over the place.

The value of a professional opinion is just that - it's professional and worth paying for. The rest of us are a bunch of pool players who kind of know what we're doing but we usually have very little experience working with others.

Anybody who is really serious about improving areas of their game would be wise to seek professional advice. So far, the best advice I've had has been professional.

Chris

 

[stumpie71]

This was mentioned in a earlier response. Slow down your transition and relax. If you look on youtube you can find some good videos of SVB breaking 9 ball and 10 ball. Also there is a Russian who has a really good break but I can't remember his name. But both of them you can see their hand when they make their final transition yours is a burr. Someone told me a long time ago slow is fast. It took a long time to figure it out but he was right.

 

[Rusty C]

I've never herd of blackjack, is he a top player,or is he just another instruction hustler.

 

[maxeberle]

Hey Clint,

Looks like you get plenty of power, no problem there. You might be able to increase that with little changes in your stance/backswing/timing etc. etc...

But that's not your problem.

You said you hit it square, but not in these videos...

Regardless, you have a major flaw happening at the moment of delivery...
A major flaw that is the major flaw of many a player who continue to have sticking points in their break and in their game.

Not only is your bridge hand not pressed hard enough into the table (although your hand and arm look pretty solid) at the moment of impact...

You actually move your bridge hand backwards slightly as you are delivering your final stroke, thus negating all the hard work that you put into it up until then.

So, as you pull back on your last backswing, keep your bridge hand pressed forward and down into the table, and keep it there at least until you strike the ball. If you do this, you can take power off and your increase in accuracy will result in a better and more consistent break.

Hope that helps Clint,

Max Eberle

-------------------------------------------

PS: I do cover this in more detail along with very detailed descriptions of common problems and their fixes in my 3 disc, 4 hours and 40 min. DVD Set on fundamentals which you can learn about here: Learn about the DVDs here

I also almost never check my PM's, my email is max@maxeberle.com

 

[clint3612]

Thanks Max..

This is some of the best advice I've heard. I will try to employ those tactics tonight! Thanks!

 

[clint3612]

Heres my real motivation.

I'm of the opinion, that if you can develop the tools to hit the balls hard out of the gate, then you can lighten up accordingly and focus on hit.Right now I can't hit harder than 25 mph. I want to be able to move the cueball at least 28mph and then dial in the accuracy. When I"m gambling i don't hit them that hard yet. I can break 19-22 mph with good control right now. Keep in mind, I have a great off the table cut break for nineball and i have 20-23 mph side rail break that is consistent. Everything looks bad because i'm trying to him them as hard as i can on camera and the breakrak can be misleading on the return. However, with 10 ball coming up strong, I think it is smart to be able to break 23-28 mph with control to really consistently pocket balls on 9foot table playing 10 ball. This is a break that style i want to master. When Dechaine wants to hit them hard he can or he can take a little off for control. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyX3xUfKr4k Thats what I want to be able to do. Remember, we can work on hitting them squarely but when playing 10ball, you can come up dry time after time if you don't have firepower to hit them hard.

 

[Mike in MN]

I'm of the opinion, that if you can develop the tools to hit the balls hard out of the gate, then you can lighten up accordingly and focus on hit.Right now I can't hit harder than 25 mph. I want to be able to move the cueball at least 28mph and then dial in the accuracy. When I"m gambling i don't hit them that hard yet. I can break 19-22 mph with good control right now. Keep in mind, I have a great off the table cut break for nineball and i have 20-23 mph side rail break that is consistent. Everything looks bad because i'm trying to him them as hard as i can on camera and the breakrak can be misleading on the return. However, with 10 ball coming up strong, I think it is smart to be able to break 23-28 mph with control to really consistently pocket balls on 9foot table playing 10 ball. This is a break that style i want to master. When Dechaine wants to hit them hard he can or he can take a little off for control. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyX3xUfKr4k Thats what I want to be able to do. Remember, we can work on hitting them squarely but when playing 10ball, you can come up dry time after time if you don't have firepower to hit them hard.

I can't understand the NEED to hit the rack at 28 mph. I can probably muscle up and hit it around 25 mph, but I never, ever do. I still think you should focus on control and accuracy first, as it is much more important.

Also, I'm curious about the return on investment (so to speak) with a 28 mph break. Is it really going to make that much more difference than a 23 mph break? I seriously doubt it.

 

[TATE]

I'm of the opinion, that if you can develop the tools to hit the balls hard out of the gate, then you can lighten up accordingly and focus on hit.Right now I can't hit harder than 25 mph. I want to be able to move the cueball at least 28mph and then dial in the accuracy. When I"m gambling i don't hit them that hard yet. I can break 19-22 mph with good control right now. Keep in mind, I have a great off the table cut break for nineball and i have 20-23 mph side rail break that is consistent. Everything looks bad because i'm trying to him them as hard as i can on camera and the breakrak can be misleading on the return. However, with 10 ball coming up strong, I think it is smart to be able to break 23-28 mph with control to really consistently pocket balls on 9foot table playing 10 ball. This is a break that style i want to master. When Dechaine wants to hit them hard he can or he can take a little off for control. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyX3xUfKr4k Thats what I want to be able to do. Remember, we can work on hitting them squarely but when playing 10ball, you can come up dry time after time if you don't have firepower to hit them hard.

Here's a side by side comparison of your breaks. You can see in the video, Mike has a slower transition relative to his swing speed and his higher body position is in reaction to his considerably longer arc. This slower transition allows him to fully wind up. I believe this is where natural flexibility offers a power advantage. The long backswing and slow transition also allows time for his weight to shift from the rear foot to the forward foot, all of which synchronizes to generate great speed. In these pics you can see by his body angle his weight has fully shifted to his left foot at delivery. Notice his grip hand is more forward on the cue and yours is further back (at impact). This forward grip position allows a bigger wind-up and fully engages the biceps. Your rearward grip removes some of the cue's ability to travel and doesn't keep the cue in the "punch muscles" zone.

The other thing to note is look at the gap between his cue and head versus yours. Even in the pics below, you can see the blur on his cue that is traveling in an arc on delivery, because his elbow is swinging freely, where yours is traveling on a straighter/flatter path, because your elbow is somewhat pinned - bad for power breaking.

FYI, I believe that even at his normal break speed, he gets the cue that far back, he just controls it better. Right now you are generating a lot of power because you're a big, strong guy. If you can do it with athletic technique and form, it will smoothen out your break and make it easier to control.

By the way, I think I learned a lot here myself by analyzing this.



Chris