Sweet 3 rail kick system

[GADawg]

Jimmy Reid's 3 rail system on his site for free has an adjustment to make for two rail kicks which works pretty well.

Unfortunately this system and the over the second diamond system are designed only for long rail first kicks.

Is there a good system for 3 rail kicks where the first contact is on the short rail?

 

[Tokyo-dave]

I've been using this system as one of my 3 rail systems for at least 15 years. It is very accurate. The cool part about it is, you can move the cueball ANYWHERE and use the same spot on the wall.

I've come across this system on the web several times, but have always been unconvinced. However, this thread has triggered my interest. But I still have my doubts. In the exact same ob position, with the same designated spot, with the cue ball up the table further in the break area, I just don't see how this works. Can somebody help/explain a little more? How would you use the same system if the cb were somewhere behind the head string on the same shot?
dave

 

[Colin Colenso]

This system is very similar to one that I use. Though my own version uses maximum english. Using maximum english, the initial line goes through a point nearer to the center of the table, rather than through the no.2 diamond.

I found the distance for the imaginary aim point works best at about 8 feet from the table.

With a bit of study you can pretty accurately predict the contact on the 3rd rail, and so adapt this system for 2 rail kicks, and accurately establish direction of the CB toward the 4th rail so that you can hit balls that are mid-table (away from the rails).

It's good to know the maximum english version as well as the topspin version, as sometimes pockets or balls may be on one of the paths.

There is a more detailed explanation in my article here: http://calcul8r.blogharbor.com/blog/PoolTechnicalWritings

 

[Colin Colenso]

2-Rail System

Here is a system that works pretty well for 2-rails, coming off the long rail first.

I'll use this, rather than adapt the 3-rail system as descibed in this thread when the CB is more down in the left region of the table as shown.

The numbers I used work for me. Note that 10 is the midpoint to the first diamond...so the spread left of that first diamond is not linear.

May not be very easy to remember, but works a lot better than a system I based this on which had rounded off easy numbers, but missed by nearly a diamond when I trialled it.

It is a maximum english system. I find these work more consistantly over a wider range of angles.

Let me know how the numbers compare on your tables. You may need to adjust the red numbers for your own table, depending on the grippiness of the 1st rail mostly. Test the 35-35 = 0 shot first, to see how your table compares.

 

[Cornerman]

I came across this 3 rail kick system a couple of weeks ago and have tried it out at several different places. .

Okay, I've given this system a thorough run through... of about a dozen shots. And I can say with confidence that this system doesnt' work. I mean, sure, I hit every three rail kick, that I tossed out there, and I hit the correct side of the ball EVERY time, but I didn't pocket any ball.

And I hung this one. What kind of a system would tease me like this?

START(
%AH7M5%PV3S7%Uq9J7%Vk3C7%Wj0D4%XW2R9%Y`8Z1%Zq8K6%[J3O0%\`0Z4
%]E2E0%^H0K8%eB4`9
)END

Fred <~~~ impressed

 

[Colin Colenso]

2 Rail System - Short Rail First

Here is another system I am working on. Again, lines are projected out about 8 feet from the table.

The spots for a touch of english and maximum english are drawn. They may change a bit for some tables.

 

[renard]

Here is another system I am working on. Again, lines are projected out about 8 feet from the table.

The spots for a touch of english and maximum english are drawn. They may change a bit for some tables.

How are you coming up with the distant spots in this diagram?

 

[Colin Colenso]

2-Rail System: Long Rail First

Here is another way to do 2 rails from the long rail first for both a touch of running and maximum running english.

For clarification. The green and blue balls are Cue Balls, the other balls are target balls.

 

[recoveryjones]

I use a system really similar to this. Basically, if you have the CB in the jaws of one of the corner pockets and shoot with running english at the 2nd diamond it will go in the corner opposite where you shot from. If you shoot at the third diamond it will hit one diamond up the long rail from the target pocket and if you shoot at the first diamond it will hit about 1 diamond over on the short rail and so on. So you use a line from a corner through the appropriate diamond (or pocket) to find your point and shoot at that the same as Supergreenman says. Regardless, always nice to have another tool in the bag.

I use the same system as yours.I think you'll find however, from table to table that the second diamond won't allways work for your three rail kick as some tables kick shorter than others. Humidity,cloth,rails,stroke etc etc are all variables that decide where the cue ball goes after it contacts the third rail.

In my home pool room,I put the cue ball in the jaws of the corner pocket and aim at diamond 2.5 to make that same three rail kick (With a tip of high running english) to the opposite corner.At another pool hall I have to go one full diamond longer and aim at diamond 1.5 to make the same kick or else I'll come up one full diamond short of the opposite corner pocket on the long rail.

The solution is simple:

Do a three rail test kick on the table you are going to be playing on. Find out at what diamond aiming point(1.5,2, 2.5 or something else etc.)you need to contact to make a three rail shot to the opposite corner. Once you know what kick works for that particuliar table, you can then mark your spots on the wall providing the wall is 6-9 feet away as earlier prescribed. This is a great advantage if you have a pool table at home or a favorite feature table or two that everyone allways plays at, at your home pool room.You will find that most tables of simuliar brand name(ie Gold crown) in the same pool hall with simuliar conditions will kick pretty much the same,however it's allways best to check out each table individually.

A good way to mark your spots on the wall acuratley is with a laser pointer.Sneak one into your pool hall when no-one is looking and make some inconspicious markings .

Once you've made your markings you will find that aiming at that spot from anywhere will take your cue ball to the corner. If you cue ball is really close to the first long rail, some ajustments(aim a tad longer up the rail)are needed, however, those are easy to figure out with experimentation.Kicking long or short of the corner is also easy to figure out(experimentation)by either going left or right down the rail of your marked spot intersection.

Like the first system mentioned on this thread, this is truely an awesome three rail kicking system that will leave your friends amazed.

RJ

 

[Colin Colenso]

How are you coming up with the distant spots in this diagram?

I don't use any math or geometry to establish the distances to project the lines through the magic spots, they are just based on experimenting with the system to find what works.

 

[Billy_Bob]

I was playing in a tournament with an opponent who liked to stand in my line of sight while I was shooting (trying to shark me).

Well I had a 3 rail shot, and for the spot on the wall shot, the wall needs to be 5/6 ft. away. Guess what? My opponent was standing right where I needed to aim! (just floor space there) So I aimed at a button on his shirt and made a good hit and also snookered him. He had no idea he was actually helping me by standing right there!

 

[onepocketchump]

I hate to be daft as I havent had the chance to try this system(the previous times I've seen it it only explained how to get to the corner pocket and not for random places).

2 questions though:

1: How would setting up spots help if the spot changed depending on where the contact point is(drawing a line from mirrored contact point through second diamond)?

2: This may sound stupid, but is there any reason that you need to use a spot? I mean I have a pretty good grasp on spatial relationships, is there any reason why I cant just pick out a spot in the air and then use that???

if using this method, which # of feet(6-9 but what is optimal, 7.5?) to place the spot?

Essentially this is the same as the 'double the distance' or 'mirror' systems for one rail kicks. If you were to draw 8 tables around the center one and extend the lines then you would see that the patterns all line up in triangles. I have seen this demonstrated for 1-5 rail kick shots. Once you start using it then it becomes pretty easy to sight judge distance to find the right spot to aim at and the right first angle.

John

 

[alstl]

Here's some info on two rail kicks located at these links:


http://www.jimloy.com/billiard/kick3.htm

http://www.tomrosspool.com/pdf/Kicking and Banking/Two-Rail Kicks.pdf


RJ

Thanks, I've been using the diamond system described in the first link, but it's harder to figure when the balls aren't on or near the rail. I'll take a look at the parallel system and see what happens.

 

[Bob Jewett]

How are you coming up with the distant spots in this diagram?

There is a standard way to come up with distant spots. First you have to decide what spin and speed you are going to use, and a particular target. Then set up a shot at one end of the system (to the left or right end of where the cue ball can start within the shots covered by the system). Shoot just that shot until you have found the line for that shot. While you might be using a distant target, try not to let that influence your other shots.

Next, shoot a shot at the other end of the range of shots within the system. Repeat the shot until you have found the line for the shot starting at that position.

If you take the two lines you have found, they will probably meet in a point in front of you. That point almost certainly will not be on a wall. Put a bar stool at the point and put a ball on the bar stool so that it is on both lines. Now from anywhere within the range of the system, that ball should be the aiming target. A good test is to try a shot in the middle of the system.

Example: the standard three cushion system usually has a corner as the middle of the starting range. Usually running follow is used. Try to go three cushions to the other corner, but start from a place you consider at the limit for the system, such as the side pocket. Find that line. Next try from the middle of the end cushion, and find the line. Those two lines meet in a point. Put your target there. See if it works from all locations within the system.

 

[renard]

There is a standard way to come up with distant spots. First you have to decide what spin and speed you are going to use, and a particular target. Then set up a shot at one end of the system (to the left or right end of where the cue ball can start within the shots covered by the system). Shoot just that shot until you have found the line for that shot. While you might be using a distant target, try not to let that influence your other shots.

Next, shoot a shot at the other end of the range of shots within the system. Repeat the shot until you have found the line for the shot starting at that position.

If you take the two lines you have found, they will probably meet in a point in front of you. That point almost certainly will not be on a wall. Put a bar stool at the point and put a ball on the bar stool so that it is on both lines. Now from anywhere within the range of the system, that ball should be the aiming target. A good test is to try a shot in the middle of the system.

Example: the standard three cushion system usually has a corner as the middle of the starting range. Usually running follow is used. Try to go three cushions to the other corner, but start from a place you consider at the limit for the system, such as the side pocket. Find that line. Next try from the middle of the end cushion, and find the line. Those two lines meet in a point. Put your target there. See if it works from all locations within the system.

Very interesting way of fine tuning your distant target. Thanks.

But my question to Colin's diagram is that thier is usually a basic starting point or origin using diamonds on the table. His diagrams seem to have no orgin other than the cueball itself...

 

[recoveryjones]

Here is a system that works pretty well for 2-rails, coming off the long rail first.

I'll use this, rather than adapt the 3-rail system as descibed in this thread when the CB is more down in the left region of the table as shown.

The numbers I used work for me. Note that 10 is the midpoint to the first diamond...so the spread left of that first diamond is not linear.

May not be very easy to remember, but works a lot better than a system I based this on which had rounded off easy numbers, but missed by nearly a diamond when I trialled it.

It is a maximum english system. I find these work more consistantly over a wider range of angles.

Let me know how the numbers compare on your tables. You may need to adjust the red numbers for your own table, depending on the grippiness of the 1st rail mostly. Test the 35-35 = 0 shot first, to see how your table compares.

Colin you are apiece of work for sure
I'm glad to see there is someone out there as fanatical as I am when it comes to color coded kick diagrams.

On my home(pool room) practice table I color coded all the three rail kick track lines starting from Diamonds 8,7 and 6 on the short rail all the way down to diamonds 5,4,3,2,1 on the long rail.I could alter speeds and 3 rail kick to the opposite corner I started from and also come 1, 2 and 3 diamonds short(from some of the starting posistions) when I added speed.Of course everything was color coded and memorized. On my home practice table I'm a kicking machine for sure.

Unfortunatley track lines change when you go to another table or can really change when you go to another pool hall with different equipment. The track lines are pretty consistent on most tables when contacting the 3rd rail. It's when you come off the third rail where the track lines change and in most cases things shorten up.With a few experimental kicks one can see the differences and make the adjustments , so your color coding is not done in vain.

Take care Colin and keep up the good work.
RJ

 

[Colin Colenso]

Very interesting way of fine tuning your distant target. Thanks.

But my question to Colin's diagram is that thier is usually a basic starting point or origin using diamonds on the table. His diagrams seem to have no orgin other than the cueball itself...

The key is the Magic Red dots in my diagrams.

The first system as introduced by this thread just happens to have its magic dot at the no.2 diamond. On my table it is actually a few inches from here, at the edge of the rail beside the diamond.

If you can remember the locations of these spots for the several systems I have diagrammed, and quickly adjust the positions with a few tests on new tables, you have a comprehensive system that doesn't require looking for diamonds or doing any math.

btw: Bob's comments on locating the distance are spot on. Test at the two extremes and connect the lines. Where they join is the magic distance point for each aim location. Usually comes out to about 8 feet from the table edge for me. That usually puts you close enough to make the hit anyway.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Colin you are apiece of work for sure
I'm glad to see there is someone out there as fanatical as I am when it comes to color coded kick diagrams.

On my home(pool room) practice table I color coded all the three rail kick track lines starting from Diamonds 8,7 and 6 on the short rail all the way down to diamonds 5,4,3,2,1 on the long rail.I could alter speeds and 3 rail kick to the opposite corner I started from and also come 1, 2 and 3 diamonds short(from some of the starting posistions) when I added speed.Of course everything was color coded and memorized. On my home practice table I'm a kicking machine for sure.

Unfortunatley track lines change when you go to another table or can really change when you go to another pool hall with different equipment. The track lines are pretty consistent on most tables when contacting the 3rd rail. It's when you come off the third rail where the track lines change and in most cases things shorten up.With a few experimental kicks one can see the differences and make the adjustments , so your color coding is not done in vain.

Take care Colin and keep up the good work.
RJ

Cheers RJ,
I was collected a huge amount of data, but I've found working on a few of these systems and getting to know them in finer detail works well and doesn't require memorizing a huge database. Which of course would all require adjustment formulas for different tables / conditions *wipes brow*.
Colin

 

[APA7]

I was playing in a tournament with an opponent who liked to stand in my line of sight while I was shooting (trying to shark me).

Well I had a 3 rail shot, and for the spot on the wall shot, the wall needs to be 5/6 ft. away. Guess what? My opponent was standing right where I needed to aim! (just floor space there) So I aimed at a button on his shirt and made a good hit and also snookered him. He had no idea he was actually helping me by standing right there!

Sometimes I wonder if you just make a lot of shiit up

Brian

 

[3kushn]

This is an oldy but goody.

Make sure the spot on the wall isn' a House Fly you're aiming at. They tend to move around.