switching from LD to HD, from BHE to FRE

Solartje

the Brunswick BUG bit me
Silver Member
Just wanted to post my experience from changing form one to another.

I have been using high deflection cues and BHE from the first day i started playing pool. It took me a long time before i totally got how BHE worked, and what the different variables are. I finaly had 5 lines drawn with a pencil on my shaft that i used as a reference, and i just loved to dont have to adjust my aim when using any english at all.

I know most of the players use LD shafts now, and i never wanted to switch. I didnt get why Low Deflection would be better then NO deflection. Well i thought it give it a try, knowing that i could resell the shaft easily in case i wasnt suted for me.

I was expecting to need a big time laps to fully adjust, but it took me 3 sessions to master it. I'll try to give the pro's and the con's of each method.


pro's:
1/ with the LD the maximum englisch i can aply is ALOT higher. I can't explain it, because im hitting with the same speed, and same distance from center, but i'm getting different results. it frustrates me that i can't explain why, but it just plain gives more english. Its rare that you have to use MAX english, so its not that you will need it often, but in case where you completly missed your position it can help alot (especially on inside englisch shots) I'd say im getting 30% more english then the regular shaft (that came with the bob frey sneaky).

Pro's: If i ever brake a shaft, i know i can buy one with same deflection characteristics as the one i had before. If i brake my standard shaft, i will have to play and test different shafts to find one that is the same, or Adapt my pivot points (wich might not be the same as my natural pivot point).

Pro's: i don't have to adjust my bridgelenght as much as with a low deflection shaft. In cases where i used to very slowly roll the cb with alot of english i had to bridge so far, my precision on the cb was getting worse, and from time to time, i'd miscue. Using fhe solves this problem for me.

con's:
With BHE, if u didnt stroke the cue straight, and you aplied some extra english, as you would hold the shaft at the pivot point, the unstraight-stroke won't have much of an influence. Your bridgehand always stay's stable, and whatever the backhand descides to do, the BHE-pivot point won't make the cb go into a different line. With FRE, your backhand has to go straight.
(this can be seen as a pro, because if i dont stroke straight i will see the difference, and i will be constantly reminded about it, and it will make me stroke straighter in the long run.)

feeling: I finaly understand what people mean with the death hit of the shaft. I can agree its different, and once my tip (standard hercules that comes with the 314²) has been more compressed the feeling is less death. (or maybe its just me who got used to it). Personally, i prefere a hit that gives me a lesser strong feedback. I can see with how the CB reacts if i didnt hit it right, i dont need a cue to tell me that, so for me personally, i have no problem at all.

Basically, i think im going to stick to the high deflection shaft, (even if i never thought i'd say it).

PS this is just my personal 2c, i just know alot of people might be temped to switch, only advice i can give is: give it a try, it might sute you, or it might not.
 
solartje:
... im hitting ... same distance from center
... I'd say im getting 30% more english then the regular shaft

I don't believe this can be true. You must be hitting farther from center (maybe because you're paying closer attention). Lots of testing shows that low-squirt shafts don't produce significantly more spin than high-squirt shafts.

pj
chgo
 
I don't believe this can be true. You must be hitting farther from center (maybe because you're paying closer attention). Lots of testing shows that low-squirt shafts don't produce significantly more spin than high-squirt shafts.

pj
chgo

If the centers of the cues are in the same place, but one has a larger diameter tip, the smaller diameter will get more spin. But, of course, that's not hitting the same distance from center.
 
If the centers of the cues are in the same place, but one has a larger diameter tip, the smaller diameter will get more spin. But, of course, that's not hitting the same distance from center.

I can't explain it either, and trust me, i have posted the same arguments for years, but im getting more spin :confused:. Is it because of the way the tip deflects from the sphere when the sphere is hit of center that is different from one shaft to another? Maybe the timelaps in between the contact of the tip with the cb is longer/shorter? maybe as the shaft deflects more as its cored in the front, the final position when the tip leaves the cb is "deflected" to a bigger distance from the center (eventhough at the moment when the tip makes contact with the cb they are in the same place?) i have NO FREAKING idea, and honestly i don't need scientist proof to explain me why, all i can see is what the CB does, and it does it differently then before.

im a scientist, and i know my physics well, but my stroke didnt change in one day, and 1/16" more distance from center (what i expect my acuracy to be) isnt enough to explain the high difference in spin.

I wont debate about it, and try to convince you that I'm right, because my scientist brain tells me i can't be right, so why argue? but im getting more draw and more english then before, and i'm given up trying to find out why....


BOT: lots of players told me it would take some time to adjust, but basically, if you know how BHE and FHE work, you can adapt to another shaft in a matter of hours.
 
I can't explain it either, and trust me, i have posted the same arguments for years, but im getting more spin :confused:. Is it because of the way the tip deflects from the sphere when the sphere is hit of center that is different from one shaft to another? Maybe the timelaps in between the contact of the tip with the cb is longer/shorter? maybe as the shaft deflects more as its cored in the front, the final position when the tip leaves the cb is "deflected" to a bigger distance from the center (eventhough at the moment when the tip makes contact with the cb they are in the same place?) i have NO FREAKING idea, and honestly i don't need scientist proof to explain me why, all i can see is what the CB does, and it does it differently then before.

im a scientist, and i know my physics well, but my stroke didnt change in one day, and 1/16" more distance from center (what i expect my acuracy to be) isnt enough to explain the high difference in spin.

I wont debate about it, and try to convince you that I'm right, because my scientist brain tells me i can't be right, so why argue? but im getting more draw and more english then before, and i'm given up trying to find out why....


BOT: lots of players told me it would take some time to adjust, but basically, if you know how BHE and FHE work, you can adapt to another shaft in a matter of hours.

Have you actually tested it?

Use a numbered ball as your "cue ball" and place it on the foot spot. Aim it at the second diamond on the long rail, directly across from the foot spot.

Orient the ball's number so it's facing you and shoot the ball at the diamond, putting sidespin on it by hitting it exactly on the circle surrounding the number. Be sure you hit exactly at the diamond on the far rail - if you miss the diamond, ignore the shot.

Check the chalk mark afterward to be sure you're hitting exactly on the circle - ignore any shots that you don't hit exactly on the circle.

Shoot each shot the same speed (say, just hard enough to bank back to the near rail) - if any shots go more than a few inches long or short, ignore them.

Do this many times each with each shaft. Is there still a big difference?

pj
chgo
 
I can't explain it either, and trust me, i have posted the same arguments for years, but im getting more spin :confused:. Is it because of the way the tip deflects from the sphere when the sphere is hit of center that is different from one shaft to another? Maybe the timelaps in between the contact of the tip with the cb is longer/shorter? maybe as the shaft deflects more as its cored in the front, the final position when the tip leaves the cb is "deflected" to a bigger distance from the center (eventhough at the moment when the tip makes contact with the cb they are in the same place?) i have NO FREAKING idea, and honestly i don't need scientist proof to explain me why, all i can see is what the CB does, and it does it differently then before.

im a scientist, and i know my physics well, but my stroke didnt change in one day, and 1/16" more distance from center (what i expect my acuracy to be) isnt enough to explain the high difference in spin.

I wont debate about it, and try to convince you that I'm right, because my scientist brain tells me i can't be right, so why argue? but im getting more draw and more english then before, and i'm given up trying to find out why....


BOT: lots of players told me it would take some time to adjust, but basically, if you know how BHE and FHE work, you can adapt to another shaft in a matter of hours.

I completely agree with you. I don't know the physics behind it but a Predator gives me much more spin. Its why I quit using it, couldn't control the spin.
 
solartje said:
... im hitting ... same distance from center
... I'd say im getting 30% more english then the regular shaft
I don't believe this can be true. You must be hitting farther from center (maybe because you're paying closer attention). Lots of testing shows that low-squirt shafts don't produce significantly more spin than high-squirt shafts.
FYI, I have a detailed answer to this question here:


A low squirt cue might provide a small increase in maximum English (2-3%), but nothing close to 30%. However, there are other possible explanations, as Bob has suggested. For more info, see the three articles I have linked in the FAQ page.

Regards,
Dave
 
patrick; i have been reworking on my fundamentals for over a year now, doing only that. Straight stroke, center ball hit. I'm confident that it wasn't the stroker behind it, but it was the shaft.

xianmacx: That was exactly what my first impression was. OVERKILL!!! I couldnt controle it either. it will still take me some time, but now i need to find the tipofset that will give me the same spin ratio. For a rule (for now) i use 2/3th of the ofset i used before. Will take me alot of hours on the table to finetune it.

Ps i've been thinking about the xtra spin, like Dave said, i was expecting something around 5% increase, but never what I experienced. Might this be one of the extra reasons: the difference in between FHE and BHE. (in dave's artikel the shaft was drawn with parrallel englisch...). With BHE the angle between the line :bridgehand-center ball and bridgehand-english is alot bigger, then when you use FHE and compare the same angle. (BHE pivots around the bridge and FHE pivots around the grip). As the angle is bigger with BHE, the MAX english you can aply before a miscue will be smaller, then when using FHE . Does this make any sence?
Maybe this half tip of extra english + the 3% shaft difference, can explain it?

PS i'm not trying to change someones religion on spin here :) I don't care what others think, and i won't gain anything for changing your opinion, but I can't deny what the eyes see.
 
Different strokes, for different folks,, imo however ld shafts are much,much better ,than the shaftS of old......
 
Solartje:
With BHE the angle between the line :bridgehand-center ball and bridgehand-english is alot bigger, then when you use FHE and compare the same angle. (BHE pivots around the bridge and FHE pivots around the grip). As the angle is bigger with BHE, the MAX english you can aply before a miscue will be smaller, then when using FHE . Does this make any sence?

Yes, it makes sense, but you're missing an important point: the "effective center" of the CB is measured in relation to the path the CB takes, not in relation to where your stick is pointed. So no matter at what angle you have your stick (to compensate for more or less squirt), the "effective tip offset" will be the same (assuming the CB goes in the same direction and you hit the same spot on it).

I can't deny what the eyes see.

I think your brain is mistranslating what your eyes are telling it. My test (a few posts above) could show you this if you took the time to try it.

pj
chgo
 
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