They would need to answer for themselves. Too bad we can't tag other posters on a forum.
System .v.s. Experience
- Thread starter The_JV
- Start date
I can say that for CTE and 90/90 the shot line is a centerball address.
John, that is the best response to these "negative nobodies" that's ever been written in here.
It makes me stop and think...…"what the hell am I myself doing wasting my time in this place around these losers"
Stay happy, stay healthy, and take care.
Lowenstein.
My premise was likely missed.
The biggest struggle for center ball aiming systems is the variable of cut induced throw being dependent on angle, speed distance and amount of vertical spin.
My premise was that the easiest way to remove it as a variable is to not use center ball.
Cut induced throw is only a center ball issue, off center hits deal with spin induced throw.
Properly applied spin induced throw can provide a predictable path independent of angle, speed, distance and vertical spin.
Because the insight that center ball adds the complications, my view on center ball systems, is that they won’t be the future.
The fact that those asked about their center ball bias always include modifications based on cut angles, reveals their awareness at some level of the inherent shortcomings of center ball.
This is just adding a level of awareness to the use of center ball.
I just presented a singular method of applying spin induced throw using inside english to replace center ball shots.
Moving off the center line can give birth to any method a player might put in place, with the benefit of no cut induced throw.
I graft Dr. Dave’s gearing english onto my methods for shots where outside english is needed or I need to hold the cue ball line through throw.
Just as JV noted about his use of outside english with draw, I also rarely use inside english with draw, my outside usually gears.
This is another tool for eliminating center ball issues, that on occasion, needs to adjust for deflection.
If systems were so much better , there would be a lot more pros .
Instead, the pros are the ones who've spent their youth on the table .
Instead, the pros are the ones who've spent their youth on the table .
Why wouldn't cut induced throw be present when the ball also has sidespin? From a physics standpoint if there is a force acting on the ball without spin then why wouldn't that force also be present with side spin? I understand that one could counteract the other but that counteracting indicates that both are still present.
CTE, as Stan says goes a slight overcut position that accounts for the throw. When I use the Ghost Ball templates cut induced throw doesn't seem to play as much of a role as has been suggested.
I would be very interested in seeing what method is used to do this properly.
I am not sure who is included in "those asked" but I personally have NEVER included a modification based on cut angles. I don't find that there are any shortcomings with center ball.
I can agree with this in principle. However I submit that accurately finding that center ball line is what allows one to move off it.
I just use his gearing methods with CTE.
I use whatever spin is needed with aim adjusted as needed. When I practice I want to be able to pocket any shot I face with the spin that I want to use if I want to use spin. I am ALWAYS interested to learn any way to make that more precise.
So much better than what? Why would you think that a system would ever be the single catalyst that would propel a person to professional level?
Imagine a world where a youth learned an aiming system called Center to Edge and that youth grew up to be as good as the pros and then walked away from the game.
Imagine a world where a youth learned CTE and then grew up to make the winning Mosconi Cup team, twice.
Imagine a world where the aiming system they use is only a part of their overall game.
A reasonable post, actually. I know that the proposed mechanism by which CTE "works" cannot be explained by it's proponents and that has not changed for 20 years. Others such as myself propose actual explanations as to what is going on and you guys go bonkers. I've tried many times to keep things snark free but it isn't easy when so many of you guys are emotionally vested in Hal's legacy and Stan's friendship. You will often see me criticize things about CTE but rarely denigrate the people who use it (cookie, like Rosie O'Donnell, might be the one exception).
I think it would be fun to set up shotmaking challenges as long as we know the results don't prove anything at all other than one guy pockets better than another guy. I've done those in the past and posted them so don't say I never do. I'd even say that your match with Lou does not prove that CTE doesn't work like you say it does. There was a lot of pressure on both of you and that can change things, although you seem to have a long history of high stakes challenges.
Take the contest to the Big Bertha snooker table . Shoot those spot shots .
Now there you go hurting my feelings. Pro players don't care what I think and here I am thinking SVB has me on speed dial.
What did you call your high rolling comments? Oh, "colloquial." Yes, it is like that -- a figure of speech or a way to put emphasis on a point.
He's right, but we are not pro players and can't spend all our time on the table. I've tried to minimize my time here but it doesn't always work. I was going to make that laser video a week prior to when I actually made it. I got out the laser and started to set it up and I asked myself what the hell I was doing. I should be hitting balls and working on my game. I immediately had a nice 49 ball run ending in a stupid mistake.
So you asked a pro one of my questions and his answer was not to bother with people like me. Never answered the question. Yup, sounds like a CTE instructor...
The whole point of CTE is that if you follow steps 123 you will be on the shot line. The only experience you need is in learning how to execute those steps consistently. What kind of experience are you talking about?
It isn't there it is in mohrt's thread A CTE Shot to Try or similar title.
Sign me up
This is what I was trying to infer with the whole concept of the system player only having enough table time to become proficient at the system. It really shouldn't take that long to do so. ...and again, if it takes more than a thousand shots or so, it's not much of a system. Note, the original question was speaking of brand new players so there shouldn't be any old habits to overcome when adopting the system.
They can yap about any system , it still boils down to visualizing the two balls colliding .
I read Brian's book on Poolology and the first time I tried it I set up back cut shots. I think I made 4 out of 5 without looking at the pocket. It works right out of the box. THAT'S a good system. Grab 20 people off the street who have never played pool. Teach Poolology to 10 and nothing to the other 10. The Poolology people are going to destroy the others hands down.
I don't doubt it. ...or simliar results using any system for that matter. No argument from me about the value of a system for a new player.
Put that new system player up against a seasoned HAMB tactician and I don't think the newb comes out on top.
Not sure how much you know about Poolology but it does something no other system does. It tells you what fraction to hit on the ob to pocket the ball. That means if you can stroke straight enough you will pocket balls right away. As you begin to gain experience, HAMB recognition kicks in and you no longer need Poolology except maybe for special circumstances. It is a tool to get you up to speed more quickly.
Have you ever tried to grab something that is spinning?
In this case it is a slippery surface trying to grab a slippery surface, in a thousands of a second.
Friction applied spin on a static surface causes spin that will never be in contest against the slippery contact.
Even the slowest contact doesn’t have the time needed to get any traction.
If contact induced spin was added to cut induced spin, gearing english would never happen.
Dr. Dave revealed that data tells us that 50% english gives maximum throw.
Stun and slow speed add to the effect.
This graph shows that at 50% outside english, at just shy of a 40° cut has zero throw, while no english on the graph, shows nearly maximum throw at that same cut.
If they were cumulative there would be more than 5° of throw when spin throw is zero.
Note that no english, on the graph, has more throw than inside as well, meaning it isn’t cumulative.
First order is to understand what determines the amount of english, the lever that turns the ball.
The cue line through the ball passes the core center of the ball, its center of mass.
The perpendicular distance from that line to the core is the shortest distance to the line, and is called the torque line.
A torque line an eighth of a tip from the core has been chosen for several reasons.
The amount of deflection at that distance is negligible.
The amount of throw is consistent regardless of speed for small amounts of english.
Inside english was chosen because of this graph.
Notice that with even maximum throw english of 50%, the amount of throw is only 1° across all angles tested.
An eighth of a tip will therefore never throw the ball more than a single degree, regardless of speed or angle.
Proper application is a straight stroke passing within an eighth of a tip of the center of the cue ball.
The test for the stroke I use is to take a striped ball as the cue ball and cut an object ball.
The eighth of a tip offset will negate the normally acquired outside english of contact, generating an end over end roll on the cue ball; no side spin off contact.
I totally agree and the better the system for finding that the better this method works.
Since the amount of throw is consistent regardless of speed across all angles tested, I submit that a single adjustment can be applied beforehand.
Instead of the center ball aim being set at the center pocket starting it consistently at the undercut side of the pocket allows a single adjustment to accommodate all shot distances.
Any system that arrives at a center ball line should be able to adjust for a slightly fatter line.
Now we need to overlay a cue line on that line to get a distance neutral cue ball path into the impact area.
By taking a cue line that pivots from the eighth of a tip offset torque line location, a line dissecting the undercut line offsets the cue line exactly and eighth of a tip in the impact zone on the overcut side of the reference center ball line.
The new cue line cuts the ball into pocket center, independent of shot length.