T.O.I by randyg

ENGLISH! said:
Well, apparently I do not. I sincerely ask you to show me where in this thread did I do anything to 'troll' Mr. Neil before he jumped in to insult me.

I have not even looked back as of this post. I am only going on my knowledge of my intent & my memory.

I will look back. If I have inadvertantly done something, I will apologize.

Please believe me, I would like nothing better than to put all of this to an end so we & I can dicuss playing pool. Discussion does not mean automatically agreeing because of WHO says something.

If you would be so kind, please show me where I went wrong before Mr. Neil jumped in to insult me.

Regards,
Click to expand...

You brought his name in comparing him to Randy prior to him posting in this thread the very first time. "Oh I was just having a discussion with John". Bullshit! Who exactly do you think you're fooling? That's textbook trolling straight from under a bridge somewhere. You sir are an unrepentant, delusional troll.

JC
 
ENGLISH! said:
I think you & others are being a bit naive regarding why Mr. G has chosen to go underground. If a simple statement by me saying that I would be tentative regarding the weight 'I' might put on his evaluation given the time schedule he chose to spend with it is the real cause, Then what can I say, SORRY.

If you reallly wantto to know his thoughts, he posted his e-mail address earlier for just that purpose.

Regards,
Click to expand...

Have you met Randy in person? I have, and I have spent several days with him at a class that he taught. He has no problems saying he believe certain things are "crap" i.e. common pool myths just to list an example. From the few days we hung out it was clear he has the open mind/empty cup mentality, BUT while having that doesn't necessarily mean he is going to agree with anything and everything presented to him.

Don't worry...you can continue to troll and bait, continue to write paragraph after paragraph trying to make it sound like you are innocent with your comments and questions...as if people don't see your hidden agendas on some of these posts lol...until eventually you are either banned or put on ignore by 80+% of the AZ population.

Sorry for the thread derail Randy.
 
JC said:
You brought his name in comparing him to Randy prior to him posting in this thread the very first time. "Oh I was just having a discussion with John". Bullshit! Who exactly do you think you're fooling? That's textbook trolling straight from under a bridge somewhere. You sir are an unrepentant, delusional troll.

JC
Click to expand...

I truely do not understand.

Is it truely a timing thing?

Is it because I referred to Mr. Neil in a conversation before he posted in the thread?

Is that the social violation?

Please keep in mind that I stumbled here when buying a shaft in June 2012 & this is my first internet forum involvement.

If that is 'the rule' that I have violated then I would think that there are very many violations on an hourly, if not minutely basis.

But if that is the rule & if that is my violation then I guess I am guilty & I repent.

Thank You for teaching me a rule that I was totally not aware of.

From now on I will be sure to read an entire thread before I refer to anyone, as I am sure that everyone else does.:wink:

Regards,
 
Last edited:
Spimp13 said:
Have you met Randy in person? I have, and I have spent several days with him at a class that he taught. He has no problems saying he believe certain things are "crap" i.e. common pool myths just to list an example. From the few days we hung out it was clear he has the open mind/empty cup mentality, BUT while having that doesn't necessarily mean he is going to agree with anything and everything presented to him.

Don't worry...you can continue to troll and bait, continue to write paragraph after paragraph trying to make it sound like you are innocent with your comments and questions...as if people don't see your hidden agendas on some of these posts lol...until eventually you are either banned or put on ignore by 80+% of the AZ population.

Sorry for the thread derail Randy.
Click to expand...

Please do me a favor & explain, not to me, but to everyone, just what are my 'hidden' agendas that you see.
 
For the record...

If I am the true cause for randyG to go underground, I hereby request that he change his mind & give his review of CJ Wiley's TOI here in this public thread.

If he chooses to do so, I vow that I will not make a single post in this thread after his review is made public here.

I do so under the penalty of a six(6) month ban for violating that vow.

Derailing this thread was never my intent. I merely stated my opinion regarding time spent to evaluate TOI.

I apparently violated a 'rule' regarding 'trolling' that I was truely not aware of.
For that I apologize to Mr. Neil.

With all 'due' Respect & Sincerity,

Edit: I am sending randyG a PM directing him to this post.

Edit: The PM has been sent.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for inviting Mr. G back and requesting that he continue with his review of TOI. There are alot of us "silent types" that would gain alot of insight to Mr. G's review.
 
The greatest shot makers don't have the best eye sight, they have the best FEEL

fathomblue said:
This.

You'd be surprised at how much "outside English" you can impart by using this method. I've always been guilty of using tooooo much English in the past with the "regular" way of doing things.

If I recognize that a shot needs "outside", I'll get my body aligned up to the shot with the TOI.....and then slightly pivot back towards center to the point that I think I need. I've pretty much only pivoted as far back as to center CB and I was really happy with how it "tamed" my CB down. As in, I got that slight outer spin I needed off of a rail, but I wasn't turning the CB loose like I had done in the past. This is the backhand English. Prior to this, I was a parallel English kinda guy.

I would almost imagine.....and I've never asked CJ this, nor have I seen him address it, but.......if one were to become very, very proficient with the entire TOI method, you could probably come down straight into the shot where you needed to be with that "outside".....without having to pivot. Again, I only think this is possible. I'm still learning as I go with TOI.

I'd be interested in CJ's thoughts on it an "air pivot", if you will. ;)

I know I don't have a problem coming down with the TOI and giving a slight pivot. At that point in the shot process, I've made up my mind and I know what I'm doing, but it's possible that it could make your opponent think that you're pretty unsure of what you're doing. Then after a couple of break and runs, he'd just think you're getting lucky. :thumbup:

Honestly, tho, I'm not having to use the outside pivot much at all. I might be underutilizing it, perhaps, but I played 5 matches or so at a tourney last week and I could count on one hand how many times I had to do it.

I guess TOI has really made me realize that there are alterative routes to the "norm". Not only pattern play, but the overall method of approaching the table and conforming it to your game.

TOI has really eased the stress level in my head, as I know I'm going to try to hit the same shot every time, if at all possible.
Click to expand...


Yes, what reduces the stress and overthinking is when we discover that any shot can be executed with the Touch of Inside, instead of center or outside. This immediately cuts down on the choices we have to make.

The positive side effect is our minds start to become aligned with what's really happening with the cue ball on each shot. Players that use outside don't usually realize that the cue ball is deflecting in towards the object ball before spinning back on the original line and center ball hitters don't realize that some of their shots are deflecting slightly causing inconsistency.

TOI creates a situation where we feel the cue ball is slightly over cutting the object ball every shot. This way, if we are hitting the center of the pocket we know for sure we're aligned to the inside of the pocket. The amount of feel and touch this creates is a positive attribute and, in my opinion, the key to great shot making.

The greatest shot makers don't have the best eye sight, they have the best "feel for the pocket"...... The TOI taught me how to develop this skill and I"m simply passing it on to those who want to discover it as well. 'The Game is Your Teacher'
 
yankee817299 said:
Thanks for inviting Mr. G back and requesting that he continue with his review of TOI. There are alot of us "silent types" that would gain alot of insight to Mr. G's review.
Click to expand...

You are more than welcome.

I was advised to remember that there are many more readers than posters & to keep the readers in mind. I sometimes forget that when I get pulled in. I thought I had explained my meaning regarding randyG's review & the 'time' aspect.

I think this is the best that I can do.

If he does not come public now, then it is/was not because of me.

Thanks for the Thanks,
 
Before randyG comes back, let me just say that this thread has taught me a valuable lesson.

Regards to All,
 
how effective it is to control veer, rather than avoid it

Chrippa said:
Hi,

I understand but do think about crossing the vertical axis, much less work and that´s what you do in any ball game I know. Golf, to make a draw (right-handed) you have to come inside out, opposite for fade. Table tennis, tennis, soccer etc etc imo.

And then you think about it in energy, every action creates a equal reaction. So what I do I alwyas go down with TOI and then pivot - if I feel the need and the aiming/pivot will stay the same, they equal out if you do it correctly.

If you try it you will see that it works, don´t question it at first - just try it and see the results - then think:). Sometimes I wish I was 5 years old because then I have just been happy with the result:o.

Pivot aiming is better imo, and I always played and can still play with Parallel aiming but I concur.
You can really do some serious "cheating" of the pocket and still feel good about it sort of speak - TOI makes you create angles you didn´t know was there - almost, you had seen them but didn´t want to believe them, - accidents. Now these accidents are controlled shots.

For me it has been real fun all this, I don´t see it exactly like CJ (I´m not him) but he tells everything the way he feels it and when you have get that feel when it´s working everything sounds correct - I understand him.

If you go down with TOI in your mind and when you feel that you have it sort of, then look what the tip is pointing - for me it point´s at the exact contact point on the OB - "straight in". The balls are round - "every" newbie
comes down to straight into the shot and hit the ball to full, why - the balls are round etc etc - everyone knows/understand this when get explanation from the right teacher.

The amount of inside you go down with equals out the amount of english the cb takes from ob to get that "floating" cb.

"The game is perfect".

well there is more but this is some of the feelings I have about it, the way I "feel" (all my senses) it.

You can also think about LD/HD shafts, swerve/the curve you get etc.
I have always played a lot of shots thinking "curve" into it sort of speak, now I thinking that on all - sort of, why - because it´s there - go with it not against it.
Imaging the curve you get from a extreme LD to a extreme HD shaft (or if you prefer squirt - fine to - I hope you know what I mean though), I see it like a upside J or a big C sort of, I like the in between curve.


Shafts - I like a normally shaft with a shorter ferrule, in between. If there is good there is always bad where do you want to be. I choose in the middle.
Balance.

I haven´t talked about everything about what I feel with CJ about it, but this is how I feel TOI. However I´m still getting better at it so who knows:).
CJ - I would love to hear your thoughts about my feel about it though.

Learning is a journey that never ends, like life. Pool has the same laws as life has. Try to kill life (antibiotics) and it will always come back stronger and bite you in the a....:wink:

Regards

Chrippa
Click to expand...

The key is going down with the TOI first, then you can do whatever feels right for you. The TOI reference point is superior to the center one for many reasons I've outlined on this forum and in my TOI Video.

Your golf/other sports analogy is sound and I've made this several times, and I know the players that play other sports understand it, and those that don't {play other sports} probably don't. It's about maximizing margin of error and this is usually done with spin (in other sports), however, with pool it's different because the ball is touching a surface rather than through the air.

The main thing I keep hearing is how much better players are performing because TOI makes them utilize and understand deflection/veer, and how effective it is to control veer, rather than avoid it. You can't maximize the margin of error with just spin because the cue ball will deflect slightly {towards undercutting the ball} before the spin has any effect.

This means there's two calculations that have to be made and they can (with the right speed) "cancel each other out," however, it's best when creating the 3 Part Pocket Zone to over cue the object ball slightly. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
How about this:
Keep it simple- and use what is needed to make the next shot. Every *advanced* player using somehow his knowledge and expirience and then he usually also will use TOI...if it s needed and helpful.

Knowledge is the real power- Tabletime is what everyone needs next to the right attitude. If you then have the necessary willing to work hard, you re on the right way. Here everyone should start to push every *Excuse* beside. As soon as someone really is able to use no more excuses...he made a HUGE step.

Some posters seem to post here to just express themselve and bashing other posters to show who s right or wrong.
Nowadays almost every thread get s at one point overtaken by the same humans and the thread is dead.

It s really sad how some humans are permanently attacking each other. And some are attacked as soon they re posting- no matter how knowledged their sentences has been.
Some humans getting never attacked-like beeing in god-mode. And if someone then just makes a questions or says sth like "but what would be....".....then the poor person get s attacked by one of the typical *knights of knowledge*.

NO wonder that more and more are staying away in the last months on AZB. Well known and REALLY knowledge guy lost their fun.
I include myself also at this point. I read still-but i keep myself away from posting that often- it s just wasted energy.
So much negative energy s around here- I prefer to have a good time in my freetime. But if helping some ppl causes negative thoughts and ending in cyber-wars...no thanks.

may all of you have a smooth stroke.


looking forward as usual for several strange pm s, emails- but also for the very few which are worth to be read^^

Ingo
 
AtLarge said:
Just can't make yourself say "squirt," can you? Actually, "veer" is a pretty good term for it!
Click to expand...

:), veer is good imo. How about adding the Swedish term - "avdrift":p

"kärt barn har många namn" = a loved child has many names - sort of:smile:

Chrippa
 
Ratta said:
How about this:
Keep it simple- and use what is needed to make the next shot. Every *advanced* player using somehow his knowledge and expirience and then he usually also will use TOI...if it s needed and helpful.

Knowledge is the real power- Tabletime is what everyone needs next to the right attitude. If you then have the necessary willing to work hard, you re on the right way. Here everyone should start to push every *Excuse* beside. As soon as someone really is able to use no more excuses...he made a HUGE step.

Some posters seem to post here to just express themselve and bashing other posters to show who s right or wrong.
Nowadays almost every thread get s at one point overtaken by the same humans and the thread is dead.

It s really sad how some humans are permanently attacking each other. And some are attacked as soon they re posting- no matter how knowledged their sentences has been.
Some humans getting never attacked-like beeing in god-mode. And if someone then just makes a questions or says sth like "but what would be....".....then the poor person get s attacked by one of the typical *knights of knowledge*.

NO wonder that more and more are staying away in the last months on AZB. Well known and REALLY knowledge guy lost their fun.
I include myself also at this point. I read still-but i keep myself away from posting that often- it s just wasted energy.
So much negative energy s around here- I prefer to have a good time in my freetime. But if helping some ppl causes negative thoughts and ending in cyber-wars...no thanks.

may all of you have a smooth stroke.


looking forward as usual for several strange pm s, emails- but also for the very few which are worth to be read^^

Ingo
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct. Sadly.

Check in now and again, Ingo.
 
I tried the "Squirt" and it didn't pass the "Pepsi Challenge"

AtLarge said:
Just can't make yourself say "squirt," can you? Actually, "veer" is a pretty good term for it!
Click to expand...

I tried the "Squirt" and it didn't pass the "Pepsi Challenge" of pool terms. We always called it "deflection," and I understand some people refer this as what the shaft does, rather than what the cue ball does. Do you prefer "veer"....that was commonly used by the road players as well.

attachment.php
 
Actually squirt is to issue forth in a thin forceful jet & relates more to liguids or air.

Deflection relates to deviation which both the cue stick & cue ball do.

The term squirt is more of a slang just like 'pendulum' is, as it does not really fit a description of a stroke from a human arm since it is not gravity driven.

Veer & swerve are very close in meaning.

However, veer is also a running play in football.
 
Spimp13 said:
Sorry, I don't feed trolls...eventually they starve and find another place to go. No more food for you sir!
Click to expand...

I think in the 4.5 years I have been here I have never re quoted myself...Rick see this post again. I am not going to PM you about your hidden agendas as like I said I do not feed the trolls.

Do NOT contact me again.


Ratta...+1, good post. I understand (and it sucks) that some of the knowledgeable posters don't have the energy or feel like posting anymore due to some posters on here. I sometimes get baited and respond to some of the posters I am referring to, putting them in their place when I probably should just ignore them (and not feed the trolls). I hope at the end of the day these "good posters" that I have the utmost respect for continue to post and just disregard some of these posters that make them not want to post anymore. There are some of us that appreciate the time and effort they put into the forums. Believe it or not some of the things posted do get put onto table time and then implemented into the game!
 
Spimp13 said:
I think in the 4.5 years I have been here I have never re quoted myself...Rick see this post again. I am not going to PM you about your hidden agendas as like I said I do not feed the trolls.

Do NOT contact me again.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought, but I was just trying to learn through a PM what some falsely percieve as 'my agendas'. Thanks for not helping, but I understand.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top