Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) for measuring table "toughness"

pw98

Registered
Yes.

Are you suggesting that the PAF should be much higher at the higher mouth/throat differences?

BTW, the "go/no-go" effect applies only for shots going off the points or close to the rails, right? Remember, the PAF is an average number over the full range of possible shots.

Please elaborate more on the "go/no-go" effect and how you think the PAF values could be improved.

Thanks,
Dave
I have 3 tables to report:

(1) Gandy Miss America 8.5', 4.25" corners, 0.5" mouth to throat, 0.75" shelf. Comes out to TDF=0.99 The rubber was worn out and inconsistent on this table.

(2) Custom Made 8.5', 4.25" corners, 0.75" mouth to throat, 1.0" shelf. Comes out to TDF=1.04, New superspeed rubber

(3) Antique Brunswick Regent 10', 5.0" corners, 1.0" mouth to throat, less than 1.0" shelf, Comes out to TDF=1.02, artemis rubber.

Analysis:

All the tables have simonis 860.

(2) is definitely a lot harder to play on than (1). I feel (1) played more like a 0.95 in difficulty mainly because you could hit/aim the balls badly at any speed and almost no balls would be rejected regardless of speed if the ball made it into the mouth. (1) played so much easier than a TDF=1.01 Diamond at the pool hall.

Regardless of the TDF's I think that (3) is the hardest to play on. This is because you have to set up for longer shots and some shots aren't even possible due to reach. The shots also have to be hit a lot harder. Also it seems to need to take better aim to shoot on (3) but need a more consistent stroke (disregarding speed) to play on (2).

So I put it as: (3) > (2) > (1) != 1.02 > 1.04 > 0.99
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have 3 tables to report:

(1) Gandy Miss America 8.5', 4.25" corners, 0.5" mouth to throat, 0.75" shelf. Comes out to TDF=0.99 The rubber was worn out and inconsistent on this table.

(2) Custom Made 8.5', 4.25" corners, 0.75" mouth to throat, 1.0" shelf. Comes out to TDF=1.04, New superspeed rubber

(3) Antique Brunswick Regent 10', 5.0" corners, 1.0" mouth to throat, less than 1.0" shelf, Comes out to TDF=1.02, artemis rubber.

Analysis:

All the tables have simonis 860.

(2) is definitely a lot harder to play on than (1). I feel (1) played more like a 0.95 in difficulty mainly because you could hit/aim the balls badly at any speed and almost no balls would be rejected regardless of speed if the ball made it into the mouth. (1) played so much easier than a TDF=1.01 Diamond at the pool hall.

Regardless of the TDF's I think that (3) is the hardest to play on. This is because you have to set up for longer shots and some shots aren't even possible due to reach. The shots also have to be hit a lot harder. Also it seems to need to take better aim to shoot on (3) but need a more consistent stroke (disregarding speed) to play on (2).

So I put it as: (3) > (2) > (1) != 1.02 > 1.04 > 0.99

Thank you for posting. I've added your entries to the list. The TDF system might not be perfect, and there are some things it doesn't account for; but in my experience, it does a fairly good job of giving representative numbers.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Here's the latest:

Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays relative to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the TDF calculator or TDF spreadsheet to get your results.

username - table size, pocket mouth size, mouth-throat difference, shelf depth - TDF (table description)
Side Pocket - 10', 4 1/4", 1 1/4", 2 1/4" - 1.48 (1920s Brunswick)
CaptiveBred - 10', 4 1/8", >143.5°, 1 1/2" - 1.43 (Brunswick Anniversary)
Bob Dixon - 9', 4", 145°, 1 5/8" - 1.37 (Diamond Pro)
gregcantrall - 10', 4", 5/8", 1 1/2" - 1.31 (10' Diamond)
Ricky Sy - 9', 3 3/4", 1/4", 5/8" - 1.25 (money table)
TEAM SLO - 9', 3.85", 0.6", 1.5" - 1.24 (Diamond)
acedonkeyace - 9", 4", 1/2", 2" - 1.22 (gamble table)
ChrisinNC - 10', 4 1/4", 11/16", 1 5/16" - 1.22 (Gabriel Sentinel)
8cree - 9", 4.125", 0.813", 1.562" - 1.21 (Diamond)
Bonus Ball - 9', 3 7/8", 1/8", 3/4" - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9', 4 1/8", 13/16", 1" - 1.18 (Brunswick Tournament)
chevybob20 - 9', 4 1/8", 7/8", 1" - 1.18 (Centennial)
Baxter - 9', 4 1/4", 143°, 1 1/8" - 1.18 (AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9', 4 1/8", 3/4", 1 3/8" - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+, 3 13/16", 9/16", 7/8" - 1.16 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9', 4", 1/8", 1 3/8" - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10', 4 3/8", 11/16", 1 5/16" - 1.15 (Gabriel Sentinel)
rexus31 - 9', 4", 3/8", 1" - 1.15 (1950s AMF)
FatBoy - 9', 4", 1/4", 1" - 1.14 (GC)
TATE - 9', 4", 1/4", 7/8" - 1.14 (GC)
Phreaticus - 9’, 4.25”, 0.76”, 1.30" - 1.14 (GC6 Tournament Edition)
Mikjary - 9', 4", 9/16", 1 5/16" - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9', 4 1/8", 5/8", 1 1/4" - 1.13 (Gabriel Signature Pro)
rexus31 - 9', 4.125", 0.505", 1.125" - 1.12 (GC I)
Cardigan Kid - 10', 4.5", 0.88", 1.5" - 1.12 (GC)
Ralph Kramden - 9', 4 5/16", 1", 1 3/4" - 1.12 (GC I)
pocket - 9', 4 3/16", 7/16", 1 7/8" - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8', 4", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 1.12 (Olhausen)
ShaneVanNothin - 9', 4 1/4", 1", 2" - 1.10 (Brunswick)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8", 1 1/4", 1 3/8" - 1.10 (Valley)
MahnaMahna - 10', 5 1/2", 2", 2 1/2" - 1.09 (converted from snooker table)
tjlmbklr - 8'+, 4", 141°, 1 1/4" - 1.09 (unknown)
grobbs - 9', 4 1/4", 0.625", 1.5" - 1.09 (GC II)
Cardigan Kid - 9', 4 1/4", 0.45", 1 5/16" - 1.08 (GC II)
kanzzo - 9', 4 1/4", 5/8", 1" - 1.08 (GC V)
MSchaffer - 9', 4 7/16, 15/16", 1 5/8" - 1.07 (GC II)
cigardave - 9', 4 1/2", 1", 1 3/4" - 1.07 (Pro-Cut Diamond)
peppersauce - 9', 4 1/4", 3/8", 1 1/4" - 1.06 (GC III)
Side Pocket - 10', 4 7/8", 1", 1 1/2" - 1.05 (1920s Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9', 4 1/4", 1/4", 15/16" - 1.05 (GC)
IbeAnEngineer - 9', 4.5", 1.0", 1.5" - 1.05 (GC I)
JC - 9', 4 7/16", 143°, 1 3/8" - 1.05 (GC III)
Banger - 9', 4 1/2", 7/8", 1 3/4" - 1.04 (GC III)
pw98 - 8.5', 4.25", 0.75", 1.0" - 1.04 (custom)
Jimmorrison - 7', 3 7/8", 7/16", 3/4" - 1.03 (Ruxton)
SloMoHolic - 9', 4 1/2", 7/8", 1 3/8" - 1.02 (Diamond Pro)
jondrums - 9', 11.9cm, 2.5cm, 4.2cm - 1.02 (Diamond Pro)
pw98 - 10', 5.0", 1.0", 1.0" - 1.02 (Brunswick Regent)
CoreyClark - 9', 5", 1", 2 1/8" - 1.02 (GC I)
bignick31985 - 9', 4 3/8", 0.475", 1.5" - 1.01 (GC IV)
"standard" table - 9', 4 7/16", 9/16", 1 5/8" - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
Tennesseejoe- 9', 4.25", 1/4", 1 3/8" - 1.00 (1912 Brunswick Saratoga)
coxcol15 - 7', 4.25", 1", 1.25" - 1.00 (Valley with Ridgeback pro cuts)
Goldball - 8', 12.2cm, 4cm, 5.4cm - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
pw98 - 8.5', 4.25", 0.5", 0.75" - 0.99 (Gandy Miss America)
dr_dave - 9', 5", 1 1/8", 1.5" - 0.99 (Olhausen)
dr_dave - 9', 5", 1 1/8", 1 3/8" - 0.99 (GC II)
Call_me_Tom - 7', 4", 1/2", 1" - 0.99 (Valley with Penguin Pro rails)
MVPCues - 9', 4 1/2", 1/2", 1 5/8" - 0.98 (1902 Brunswick Jefferson)
oldschool1478 - 9', 4 1/2", 0.625", 1.5" - 0.98 (Diamond Pro)
freds - 8'+, 4.9", 1.1", 1.8" - 0.98 (Gandy Big G)
cjr3559 - 9', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.97 (GC V - Tournament)
Cardigan Kid - 9', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/16" - 0.97 (GC III)
wigglybridge - 9', 4 1/2", 5/8", 1 1/2" - 0.98 (rebuilt GC)
westcoast - 7', 4", 0", 1.5" - 0.98 (Valley)
BryanB - 9', 4 1/2"0, 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick)
Poolmanis - 9', 10.9cm, 1cm, 3.1cm - 0.97 (SAM)
Vahmurka - 9', 12.5cm, 20mm, 45mm - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9', 4 11/16", 143°, 1 3/16" - 0.97 (no-name)
Will Maynard - 9', 4 3/4", 1", 3/4" - 0.97 (1904 Brunswick Narragansett)
dzcues - 9', 4 7/8", 11/16", 1 15/16" - 0.96 (Diamond)
jviss - 9’, 4.98”, 0.76”, 1.625” - 0.95 (GC I)
logical - 9', 5", 7/8", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (GC II)
dzcues - 9', 5", 15/16", 1 1/2" - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+, 5", 1 1/8", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8', 4 3/8", 3/4", 1" - 0.94 (Diamond Pro-Am)
jtaylor-996 - 8' pro, 4.5", 0.5", 1.625" - 0.93 (Diamond)
Corwyn_8 - 9', 4 3/4", 1 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
Jedco - 9', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.91 (GC I)
beetle - 9', 13.1cm, 2.2cm, 4.3cm - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9', 11.5cm, 138.7°, 3.5cm - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 1/2" - 0.91 (GC)
iusedtoberich - 9', 5 1/8", 1":, 1 1/2" - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9', 5 1/8", 3/4", 1 3/4" - 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 - 9', 5 1/8", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU - 9', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka - 9', 5 1/8", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.87 (Connelly)
SloMoHolic - 8', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 5/8" - 0.87 (Brunswick Medalist)
RobMan - 9', 5", 3/4", 1.5" - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7', 4 1/2", 5/8", 1 3/4" - 0.85 (Diamond)
SloMoHolic - 8'+, 4 7/8", 7/8", 1 1/4" - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist)
buckshotshoey - 8', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 1/2" - 0.85 (American Heritage)
nateobot - 7', 4 3/8", 1/2", 1 3/4" - 0.85 (custom)
angluse - 8'+, 4 5/8", 7/16", 1 3/16" - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8', 4 3/4", 5/8", 1 3/8" - 0.84 (Connelly)
BRussell - 8', 5", 13/16", 1 1/2" - 0.83 (Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9', 13cm, 1cm, 3.5cm - 0.82 (home)
jtaylor996 - 7', 5 1/8", 146°, 1.51" - 0.82 (Legacy)
kanzzo - 9', 5 1/8", 139°, 1 1/4" - 0.80 (Legends of Pocket Billiards GC III)
Mooneye - 7', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 5/8" - 0.79 (Brunswick Ranchero)
SloMoHolic - 6', 4 1/2", 0", 5/8" - 0.77 (Valley)
dzcues - 7', 4 1/2", 0", 1/2" - 0.77 (Valley)
dr_dave - 7', 4 1/2", 0", 3/4" - 0.77 (Valley)
 
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phreaticus

Well-known member
Hey Dave, thx for all the great work on TDF calcs. I see you don't have any GC6 TE's in the list, so here's mine for the next rev✌️

Phreaticus, 9’, 4.25”, 0.76”, 1.30" - 1.14 (GC6 Tournament Edition)
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hey Dave, thx for all the great work on TDF calcs. I see you don't have any GC6 TE's in the list, so here's mine for the next rev✌️

Phreaticus, 9’, 4.25”, 0.76”, 1.30" - 1.14 (GC6 Tournament Edition)

Thanks. I've added it to the list.
 

Black Magic

New member

Calculate your Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) to determine how tough it plays relative to other tables. Only three pocket measurements are required, and you can use the TDF calculator or TDF spreadsheet to get your results.

username - table size, pocket mouth size, mouth-throat difference, shelf depth - TDF (table description)
Side Pocket - 10', 4 1/4", 1 1/4", 2 1/4" - 1.48 (1920s Brunswick)
CaptiveBred - 10', 4 1/8", >143.5°, 1 1/2" - 1.43 (Brunswick Anniversary)
Bob Dixon - 9', 4", 145°, 1 5/8" - 1.37 (Diamond Pro)
gregcantrall - 10', 4", 5/8", 1 1/2" - 1.31 (10' Diamond)
Ricky Sy - 9', 3 3/4", 1/4", 5/8" - 1.25 (money table)
TEAM SLO - 9', 3.85", 0.6", 1.5" - 1.24 (Diamond)
acedonkeyace - 9", 4", 1/2", 2" - 1.22 (gamble table)
ChrisinNC - 10', 4 1/4", 11/16", 1 5/16" - 1.22 (Gabriel Sentinel)
8cree - 9", 4.125", 0.813", 1.562" - 1.21 (Diamond)
Bonus Ball - 9', 3 7/8", 1/8", 3/4" - 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal - 9', 4 1/8", 13/16", 1" - 1.18 (Brunswick Tournament)
chevybob20 - 9', 4 1/8", 7/8", 1" - 1.18 (Centennial)
Baxter - 9', 4 1/4", 143°, 1 1/8" - 1.18 (AMF Grand Prix)
Qaddiction - 9', 4 1/8", 3/4", 1 3/8" - 1.16 (Diamond)
angluse - 8'+, 3 13/16", 9/16", 7/8" - 1.16 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
Tom Cruise - 9', 4", 1/8", 1 3/8" - 1.15 (Golden West)
ChrisinNC - 10', 4 3/8", 11/16", 1 5/16" - 1.15 (Gabriel Sentinel)
rexus31 - 9', 4", 3/8", 1" - 1.15 (1950s AMF)
FatBoy - 9', 4", 1/4", 1" - 1.14 (GC)
TATE - 9', 4", 1/4", 7/8" - 1.14 (GC)
Phreaticus - 9’, 4.25”, 0.76”, 1.30" - 1.14 (GC6 Tournament Edition)
Mikjary - 9', 4", 9/16", 1 5/16" - 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
ChrisinNC - 9', 4 1/8", 5/8", 1 1/4" - 1.13 (Gabriel Signature Pro)
rexus31 - 9', 4.125", 0.505", 1.125" - 1.12 (GC I)
Cardigan Kid - 10', 4.5", 0.88", 1.5" - 1.12 (GC)
Ralph Kramden - 9', 4 5/16", 1", 1 3/4" - 1.12 (GC I)
pocket - 9', 4 3/16", 7/16", 1 7/8" - 1.12 (unknown)
Justaneng - 8', 4", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 1.12 (Olhausen)
ShaneVanNothin - 9', 4 1/4", 1", 2" - 1.10 (Brunswick)
Neil - 7':0.85, 4 1/8", 1 1/4", 1 3/8" - 1.10 (Valley)
MahnaMahna - 10', 5 1/2", 2", 2 1/2" - 1.09 (converted from snooker table)
tjlmbklr - 8'+, 4", 141°, 1 1/4" - 1.09 (unknown)
grobbs - 9', 4 1/4", 0.625", 1.5" - 1.09 (GC II)
Cardigan Kid - 9', 4 1/4", 0.45", 1 5/16" - 1.08 (GC II)
kanzzo - 9', 4 1/4", 5/8", 1" - 1.08 (GC V)
MSchaffer - 9', 4 7/16, 15/16", 1 5/8" - 1.07 (GC II)
cigardave - 9', 4 1/2", 1", 1 3/4" - 1.07 (Pro-Cut Diamond)
peppersauce - 9', 4 1/4", 3/8", 1 1/4" - 1.06 (GC III)
Side Pocket - 10', 4 7/8", 1", 1 1/2" - 1.05 (1920s Brunswick)
Pool Hustler - 9', 4 1/4", 1/4", 15/16" - 1.05 (GC)
IbeAnEngineer - 9', 4.5", 1.0", 1.5" - 1.05 (GC I)
JC - 9', 4 7/16", 143°, 1 3/8" - 1.05 (GC III)
Banger - 9', 4 1/2", 7/8", 1 3/4" - 1.04 (GC III)
pw98 - 8.5', 4.25", 0.75", 1.0" - 1.04 (custom)
Jimmorrison - 7', 3 7/8", 7/16", 3/4" - 1.03 (Ruxton)
SloMoHolic - 9', 4 1/2", 7/8", 1 3/8" - 1.02 (Diamond Pro)
jondrums - 9', 11.9cm, 2.5cm, 4.2cm - 1.02 (Diamond Pro)
pw98 - 10', 5.0", 1.0", 1.0" - 1.02 (Brunswick Regent)
CoreyClark - 9', 5", 1", 2 1/8" - 1.02 (GC I)
bignick31985 - 9', 4 3/8", 0.475", 1.5" - 1.01 (GC IV)
"standard" table - 9', 4 7/16", 9/16", 1 5/8" - 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
Tennesseejoe- 9', 4.25", 1/4", 1 3/8" - 1.00 (1912 Brunswick Saratoga)
coxcol15 - 7', 4.25", 1", 1.25" - 1.00 (Valley with Ridgeback pro cuts)
Goldball - 8', 12.2cm, 4cm, 5.4cm - 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
pw98 - 8.5', 4.25", 0.5", 0.75" - 0.99 (Gandy Miss America)
dr_dave - 9', 5", 1 1/8", 1.5" - 0.99 (Olhausen)
dr_dave - 9', 5", 1 1/8", 1 3/8" - 0.99 (GC II)
Call_me_Tom - 7', 4", 1/2", 1" - 0.99 (Valley with Penguin Pro rails)
MVPCues - 9', 4 1/2", 1/2", 1 5/8" - 0.98 (1902 Brunswick Jefferson)
oldschool1478 - 9', 4 1/2", 0.625", 1.5" - 0.98 (Diamond Pro)
freds - 8'+, 4.9", 1.1", 1.8" - 0.98 (Gandy Big G)
cjr3559 - 9', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.97 (GC V - Tournament)
Cardigan Kid - 9', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/16" - 0.97 (GC III)
wigglybridge - 9', 4 1/2", 5/8", 1 1/2" - 0.98 (rebuilt GC)
westcoast - 7', 4", 0", 1.5" - 0.98 (Valley)
BryanB - 9', 4 1/2"0, 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.97 (1931 Brunswick)
Poolmanis - 9', 10.9cm, 1cm, 3.1cm - 0.97 (SAM)
Vahmurka - 9', 12.5cm, 20mm, 45mm - 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics - 9', 4 11/16", 143°, 1 3/16" - 0.97 (no-name)
Will Maynard - 9', 4 3/4", 1", 3/4" - 0.97 (1904 Brunswick Narragansett)
dzcues - 9', 4 7/8", 11/16", 1 15/16" - 0.96 (Diamond)
jviss - 9’, 4.98”, 0.76”, 1.625” - 0.95 (GC I)
logical - 9', 5", 7/8", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (GC II)
dzcues - 9', 5", 15/16", 1 1/2" - 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets - 8'+, 5", 1 1/8", 1 3/4" - 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner - 8', 4 3/8", 3/4", 1" - 0.94 (Diamond Pro-Am)
jtaylor-996 - 8' pro, 4.5", 0.5", 1.625" - 0.93 (Diamond)
Corwyn_8 - 9', 4 3/4", 1 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
Jedco - 9', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.91 (GC I)
beetle - 9', 13.1cm, 2.2cm, 4.3cm - 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie - 9', 11.5cm, 138.7°, 3.5cm - 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared - 9', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 1/2" - 0.91 (GC)
iusedtoberich - 9', 5 1/8", 1":, 1 1/2" - 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer - 9', 5 1/8", 3/4", 1 3/4" - 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 - 9', 5 1/8", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU - 9', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka - 9', 5 1/8", 7/8", 1 1/2" - 0.88 (GC)
Dopc - 8', 4 1/2", 3/4", 1 1/4" - 0.87 (Connelly)
SloMoHolic - 8', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 5/8" - 0.87 (Brunswick Medalist)
RobMan - 9', 5", 3/4", 1.5" - 0.86 (GC)
sniggihs - 7', 4 1/2", 5/8", 1 3/4" - 0.85 (Diamond)
SloMoHolic - 8'+, 4 7/8", 7/8", 1 1/4" - 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist)
buckshotshoey - 8', 4 3/4", 3/4", 1 1/2" - 0.85 (American Heritage)
nateobot - 7', 4 3/8", 1/2", 1 3/4" - 0.85 (custom)
angluse - 8'+, 4 5/8", 7/16", 1 3/16" - 0.84 (1935 Brunswick Challenger)
dr_dave - 8', 4 3/4", 5/8", 1 3/8" - 0.84 (Connelly)
BRussell - 8', 5", 13/16", 1 1/2" - 0.83 (Olhausen)
Lovepool - 9', 13cm, 1cm, 3.5cm - 0.82 (home)
jtaylor996 - 7', 5 1/8", 146°, 1.51" - 0.82 (Legacy)
kanzzo - 9', 5 1/8", 139°, 1 1/4" - 0.80 (Legends of Pocket Billiards GC III)
Mooneye - 7', 4 7/8", 3/4", 1 5/8" - 0.79 (Brunswick Ranchero)
SloMoHolic - 6', 4 1/2", 0", 5/8" - 0.77 (Valley)
dzcues - 7', 4 1/2", 0", 1/2" - 0.77 (Valley)
dr_dave - 7', 4 1/2", 0", 3/4" - 0.77 (Valley)
Excellent post.

Thank you,
Dave
It would be nice if a table's difficulty could so easily be quantified. But it can't. Cloth speed, rail responses and a dozen other key issues are missing.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
It would be nice if a table's difficulty could so easily be quantified. But it can't. Cloth speed, rail responses and a dozen other key issues are missing.
Agreed. For the reasons why the TDF system does not attempt to include condition effects related to the balls, cloth, cushions, table levelness, etc., see the answer to the 2nd question on the TDF resource page.
 

TrxR

Well-known member
Hey Dave, thx for all the great work on TDF calcs. I see you don't have any GC6 TE's in the list, so here's mine for the next rev✌️

Phreaticus, 9’, 4.25”, 0.76”, 1.30" - 1.14 (GC6 Tournament Edition)
Did you have the pockets modified? I was told by Brunswick their GC6TE were 4.5"
 

phreaticus

Well-known member
Did you have the pockets modified? I was told by Brunswick their GC6TE were 4.5"
BW says their TE falls within WCA specs (4.5” corners, +/- 1/8”) but they seem to not be consistent. Mine came out about an 1/8” tighter than their stated factory tolerances; looks & plays great but a bit tougher than I wanted. Personally I think prospective new GC buyers are better off with std version and have a good table tech build to suit, or get a Diamond Pro Cut. Unless one is ok accepting final specs within a fairly large range & likes the dorky TE stickers. All discussed in depth in other GC threads…
 
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phreaticus

Well-known member
Agreed. For the reasons why the TDF system does not attempt to include condition effects related to the balls, cloth, cushions, table levelness, etc., see the answer to the 2nd question on the TDF resource page.
I don’t know. I think the TDF is a reasonably fair capture of relative performance across the common table scenarios. If one assumes typical rail/cloth comditons, ie beat up Champion cloth on Valley barboxes & medium worn Simonis 860 on most GCs & Diamond blue labels, etc. Most seasoned players know how various rail/cloth conditions affect baseline sizes & angles.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don’t know. I think the TDF is a reasonably fair capture of relative performance across the common table scenarios. If one assumes typical rail/cloth conditons, ie beat up Champion cloth on Valley barboxes & medium worn Simonis 860 on most GCs & Diamond blue labels, etc. Most seasoned players know how various rail/cloth conditions affect baseline sizes & angles.

Well stated. I agree.
 
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