We don't have them because we'd have to move them too fast to get decent break speeds.
pj
chgo
Take all of the weight out of your break cue
- Thread starter Flakeandrun
- Start date
pj
chgo
Yup.
That's a very good question, I suspect it's based upon the average weight break cue that is sold. In addition, few people understand the advantages of light cue, so manufacturers go with the flow and build cues with removable weight bolts.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Interesting, I actually feel more stress on my shoulder currently. Not debilitating or worthy of an "ouch" by any means. But noticed a little twinge. Probably from lack of familiarity, and the extra speed through the ball taking all the ligaments and whatever by surprise.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Never thought I would be one to say this, given the length of some of my postings... but TLDRDr.Dave on break cue weight:
“Now, for a break cue, the optimal weight for maximum cue ball (CB) speed will depend on your arm anatomy (the size and weights of the different parts of your arm), muscle physiology (e.g., fast-twitch vs. slow-twitch muscle fiber dominance), technique, and timing. The only way to find out the optimal weight for sure is to experiment. Cue weight is not just a question of physics. Physiology also comes into play. Some people have more fast-twitch muscle fibers than others. Because of this, cue weight selection can be a very personal thing. Also, some people might have better accuracy stroking a heavier cue at a slower speed than a lighter cue at a faster speed. Also, some people might prefer a lighter or heavier cue just because of the way it feels, regardless of how better or worse the performance might be. Also, if your break cue is a combination jump-break cue, you might want a lighter weight since jumping can be easier with a lighter jump cue. Again, the choice of break cue weight is not a simple matter of physics.
Concerning the physics, what determines the CB speed is the cue’s mass and the cue’s speed at impact with the ball, and CB speed is what we are striving for (in addition to accuracy). For a given cue speed, if the cue has more mass, the CB will go faster; and for a given cue mass, if the cue has more speed, the CB will go faster. Both factors (cue speed and cue mass) are important. Some people can generate more breaking power with a lighter cue, and some can generate more with a heavier cue. A detailed analysis of the physics of how CB speed varies with both cue mass and speed (and tip offset from center, and tip efficiency) can be found in TP A.30. Breaking power is related to the square of CB speed, and CB speed is directly related to cue stick speed, so if you can increase the speed of your break stroke while maintaining accuracy, it can result in a big improvement in break effectiveness. And if you can also use a heavier cue, and maintain the same or similar cue speed, you can also increase breaking power; although, increases in cue weight don’t have as large of a benefit as increases in cue speed (see details below).
Cue and tip efficiency can also affect breaking performance; although, some people might not like the feel of the hit with a really hard and efficient tip (e.g., phenolic). Based on the numbers in TP A.30, changing from a medium-hardness leather tip on a typical playing cue (typical COR = 0.73) to a phenolic tip on a break cue (with a COR as high as 0.87), can increase breaking power by 17%! For comparison purposes (see the end of TP A.30 for details), if you could increase your cue speed by 10%, the cue ball speed would also increase by 10%, and the effective increase in breaking power would be 21%. And for a given cue speed, if you could increase the cue weight from 17 to 22 oz (while maintaining the same speed), the cue ball speed would increase by 6.3%, which would correspond to an effective increase in breaking power of 13%. So with a dramatic increase in cue weight (17 oz to 22 oz), the benefit is not as large as one might expect, even if the heavier cue could be stroked at the same speed as the lighter cue (which is usually not the case).
As mentioned above, the optimal cue weight for each individual, providing the best combination of cue speed and weight to produce the best breaking power, is a very personal thing. The only way to determine the optimal weight is to experiment. And even if you are using the optimal-weight cue and are generating the most cue speed possible, none of that will matter if you are not using good technique to get a square hit on the lead ball or if you are getting too much unintentional sidespin or excessive CB hop. You should only use as much speed as you can control.
A good analogy to pool break cue weight selection is baseball bat weight selection. A lighter bat can be swung faster, but a heavier bat has more mass. Some players can generate more ball speed (and distance) with a heavier bat (e.g., Babe Ruth), and some do better with a much lighter bat (e.g., Barry Bonds). An excellent webpage dealing with baseball bat weight effects can be found here: Bat Weight, Swing Speed and Ball Velocity. Notice the ball speed vs. bat weight graphs about 3/4 down on the webpage. They are very flat at the optimal weight, implying bat weight doesn’t really make that much difference in the range of typical values. This effect should be similar with break cues. If you are in your preferred weight range, an ounce more or less shouldn’t make much difference.”
Cue Optimal Weight - Dr. Dave Pool Info
Answers to frequently-asked questions about the best weight for a pool cue.drdavepoolinfo.com
When the coffee kicks in I come back to this.
Thats one of the reasons people are turned off, they want to see balls explode instead of that sissy breaking shit.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Tbf, it's not impossible to break MR format at speed. Sure not max speed, but there are lots of great examples of players who can do this without 'sissy breaking shit'
Both Kaçi's, Big and middle KO, FSR etc
Squeezing the one in the side with another power to get back through the balls at speed. Spent a long time trying to emulate middle KO, as I think he's got a nice break. Lucky enough to chat in person about it. It's both satisfying and aesthetic when it's done right.
Not saying blasting the balls to smithereens isn't fun. Last time I really tried to go full tilt, was basically seeing who could get closest to 30mph with a couple friends for the first round of beers after we finished playing.
Any type of break where the headball is not hit squarely with power looks like shit to me.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Those who can do, those who can't...
not sure how that old proverb finishes.Enjoy your way! I have a preference for breaking 10ball, but doesn't mean I'm not playing other games too
I think the best breakers in all formats make it look good. Granted a speed-o-meter would be something of interest to spectators I think. Certainly would have removed the need for Fedor's histrionics the other day lol
George the Greek
Well-known member
I break from the corner of the original box, the one on the spot and two at the back. I use a 17oz cue and my biggest break was 6 balls. I get the one by the left balkline corner and the two by the right corner. I make a wingball more often than not and try and kill the CB in the center of the table. If I don't make a wingball I'll use a scatter break with the CB about 6-8" from the balk rail and my bridge hand on the rail. It seems like it picks up alot more speed as the CB gets struck downward
No viewer is gonna enjoy a cut break over a head on sledgehammer break.Not a single one.Those who can do, those who can't...
Enjoy your way! I have a preference for breaking 10ball, but doesn't mean I'm not playing other games too
I think the best breakers in all formats make it look good. Granted a speed-o-meter would be something of interest to spectators I think. Certainly would have removed the need for Fedor's histrionics the other day lol
Making 6 balls tells little, the break speed would though.
More likely a cue that light would break.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
I enjoy both relative to the game played. Granted I am an established fan, enthusiast and player of cuesports.
Playing 192 I break from the corner. Wing ball 99.9%, sometimes the 1 in the middle (I'd rather it sat up table, but when getting the hang of a table I often make it here, and it's not always a bad thing), 2 ball is hopefully up and down table (sometimes I make it in a top corner). Squatting the CB roughly centre table unless something gives it a kick.
I don't really mess with other breaks in this 192 format. I dial in the speed depending on the table. Sometimes I drop speed marginally and aim to pull the CB back into the side rail and up into the middle.
MR format, an inch in and back from the line on the left of the box, cutting the one in the right middle and aiming to get CB back in centre of the pack. I go closer to the middle depending on how the table is playing and speed required.
If the table is a real pig, I place it marginally left side of the line of the 1, an inch back from the line, hit it much harder (still like 80% of max), and want the 1 ball in the left middle. CB still back into the pack. Far less comfortable with this, but some of the top guys at my hall look like they are hitting it with Thor's hammer.
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More likely a cue that light would break.
Ok, everybody but you.
George the Greek
Well-known member
That was at least 30 years ago and i had some pretty good break speed. Now it's more of controlling the break
I see..
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Speaking for the world? Wonder where you're from
No. the equation in play here is conservation of momentum. p=mv. so a cue with 30% more mass only needs 78% of the velocity to have equal momentum.