Take all of the weight out of your break cue

Flakeandrun said:
Takes all sorts to make a planet. I exercise a lot of patience in my day job, when I update my CV, I can add ‘patience’ to my transferable skills 😂

Thanks bud, glad to provide something useful or interesting here. In my AZB experience so far, for every negative poster, there’s an abundance of helpful, insightful and friendly posters too.
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I certainly agree with you, but it’s still very refreshing to see somebody respond to others like you do and I appreciate it very much.

Peace
 
If you want to increase the speed of your break, the easiest way to do it is to go to a more "efficient" tip -- one that absorbs less energy during contact. Very hard tips, like phenolic, are about 10% more efficient than typical leather tips, which is to say you will get about 10% more speed on the cue ball for the same stick speed. Alternatively, you can get the same break speed with a 10% slower swing, to get more control.

Phenolic tips tend to scratch/abrade the surface of the cue ball.
 
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For this discussion, it's useful to know how the speed of the cue ball is related to the speed of the stick. It's not a simple relation. In the following list, the tip/stick is assumed to be 100% efficient with no energy lost during contact.

If the cue stick weighs 6 ounces, the outbound speed of the cue ball is 100% of the stick speed. (Cue stick same weight as cue ball.)

For a 12 ounce stick, the cue ball gets 133% of stick speed
18 ounces (typical stick) 150% of stick speed
24 -- 160%
30 -- 167%
300 ounces -- 196%
and for a 1 ounce stick -- 29%

There are diminishing returns as the stick gets heavier, but the ratio keeps increasing slowly. The problem is that your arm can't move a 300-ounce cue very fast so the slightly larger multiplier is irrelevant. The max is 200% for a very, very heavy stick.

A light stick is bad because of the low multiplier.
 
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The above shows that as the stick weight is increased starting at one ounce, the break speed will increase up to a point after which it will start to decrease because your arm can't move the stick well, and the speed drops off faster than the multiplier is increasing.

General physical considerations say that the peak in break speed versus stick weight (for a particular player) will be fairly smooth. That is, if you change the stick weight by an ounce from your current 20, the speed isn't going to drop by 10%. I would expect it to change by less than a percent after you get used to the new weight.

If you wanted to be methodical about break cue weight selection, you could:
1. Measure your current speed.
2. Decrease stick weight until the break speed drops by 5% -- "too light"
3. Increase stick weight until the break speed again drops by 5% -- "too heavy"
4. Go half way between the two extremes -- the Goldilocks weight for you.

It would be nice if someone made an adjustable cue stick that had a large enough variation to get to the 5% drop off points or maybe even 10%. I'd guess that 5% is at 3 or 4 ounces from your best stick weight. Besides adjustable weight, the cue should have adjustable (or constant) balance because bad balance can really throw off your timing.
 
Someone commented above about follow through being important. It's not important in itself. Once the cue ball leaves the tip -- which happens after they travel together for about 1/4 inch -- what the stick does is irrelevant. Follow through is important because good timing, when you hit the cue ball at close to peak stick speed, naturally has good follow through.

A study of the mechanics of a group of about 20 pro players showed that on break shots, they were still accelerating the stick somewhat when it hit the cue ball. On their other shots, including power spin shots, tip-ball contact was at peak stick speed, when there is zero acceleration.
 
The one size fits all approach rarely, if ever, works. I had been breaking with a cue I paid $40 for 20 years ago that weighed 20¼ oz. I always had an effective break. Even the joint rings loosened for the 3rd time I bought a new break cue, a Joss Thor Hammer. I ordered it at 19 oz. and got a set of weight bolts for it. Using the Break Speed app i kept increasing the weight until my speed slowed down then I reduced the weight to the previous amount. I ended at 20¼ oz. As Cueball 2010 said, "not everyone can move their arm that fast". You have to work out for yourself what's the highest arm speed YOU can achieve then add the maximum weight you can maintain that speed with.
 
Bob, some great information shared there. I am still yet to measure anything, as work is busy, the local is hosting a great event, and when I do have time to practice I’m occupied.
I must say that I feel like I am breaking better since removing the weight, but again that’s ‘feel’ and it’s not like I was breaking poorly prior to removing it. Based on the information provided, that must surely all be psychological.
I use a bulletproof tip, which is relatively soft compared to samsara, white diamond etc. I like the grip/feel through the ball. It’s not too dissimilar to the Mezz Sonic I replaced, which is the tip I previously used when trying to max out my speed. Problem with the sonic, is I found the one on my ignite G shaft was constantly becoming flat.
 
Flakeandrun said:
... I must say that I feel like I am breaking better since removing the weight, but again that’s ‘feel’ and it’s not like I was breaking poorly prior to removing it. Based on the information provided, that must surely all be psychological. ...
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I think the balance change is not just psychological. A few days ago I was handed someone's nice stick to play with as I had left mine at home. I found the stick unusable due to the rear balance. A house cue worked much better for me. I suppose you could describe that as psychological, since it is about "feel" but it is directly related to a measurable physical parameter.
 
I don't have a particularly fast break stroke. I played with a light break cue for a couple years. It was satisfactory. I was out one evening without my own sticks but picked up a couple games. I used a typical 20 ounce house cue to break. I was suddenly breaking better. Back home I practiced breaking with a heavier cue with similar results. Since my break speed was probably the same or close it would seem the breaks would be the same, buy they are not. I switched back to a heavier break cue.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think the balance change is not just psychological. A few days ago I was handed someone's nice stick to play with as I had left mine at home. I found the stick unusable due to the rear balance. A house cue worked much better for me. I suppose you could describe that as psychological, since it is about "feel" but it is directly related to a measurable physical parameter.
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I swapped my regular Meucci shaft for carbon fiber, thinking I had "caught up" with technology. Same problem. The balance was changed and it just didn't work right. I changed back to wood.
 
BRKNRUN said:
Modern day....IF I was playing all the time and practicing the break.....I would want to be able to Hit a 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 MPH break at will.....kind of like a golfer with a wedge that has a 50, 60,70,80, 90, 100...(etc) yard swing with a wedge....I don't care for the "BIG" break....there is ALWAYS someone bigger....

I would also want to develop a "change up" break that looks like I am hitting it 20mph but comes off at 9mph;)

I feel like the days are coming (if not already) when pros start carrying 2 or 3 break cues......Some tables the light cue breaks for crap and the heavy cue pockets balls....or vice versa.

IIRC it was Scott Frost that said in a video that his playing cue is set up for 1-pocket and if he were to play rotation full time he would switch to a heavier cue.......

You heard it here first........The next big invention break cue is the "OTF" model.....the (change the weight) On The Fly break cue that is three piece and comes with multiple handle sections of different weights......Cuetec / Predator (or whoever).......please throw me a jelly roll (for the idea) when you make millions.... ;)
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I can see it.
 
ShootingArts said:
Fortunately you didn't have to take a weather day. One Spring the weather had turned gorgeous, a rare several weeks of cool crisp sunny weather. A few days of this and it was affecting my crew. I would get a phone call, somebody would call in barely able to croak, "Boss, I don't think I can make it in today, I may die before lunchtime." Shee-yee-it, I don't care you are getting paid by the hour. The next day they come in 100% recovered from their bout of Spring fever!

After a few weeks of this I called in to my boss one day. "Sorry boss, I can't make it in because of the weather."

"What do you mean, the weather is perfect!"

"That's what I mean, too nice of a day to spend it inside DOW chemical!"

I damned near got fired. Everybody knew the only illness running through the crews was Spring fever but he got whiney when I told him that was why I was taking off. I did pick a dead day with nothing pressing and things laid out for the crew.

I had one guy that had more funerals to go to than anyone else I had ever seen. One day I asked him if he believed in reincarnation. A slow "No, not really." "You may have to start. You have already buried your grandmother three times lately and she is on the phone calling for you." He went into hasty 'splaining mode and his family got much healthier!

Hu
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🤣
 
ShootingArts said:
Fortunately you didn't have to take a weather day. One Spring the weather had turned gorgeous, a rare several weeks of cool crisp sunny weather. A few days of this and it was affecting my crew. I would get a phone call, somebody would call in barely able to croak, "Boss, I don't think I can make it in today, I may die before lunchtime." Shee-yee-it, I don't care you are getting paid by the hour. The next day they come in 100% recovered from their bout of Spring fever!

After a few weeks of this I called in to my boss one day. "Sorry boss, I can't make it in because of the weather."

"What do you mean, the weather is perfect!"

"That's what I mean, too nice of a day to spend it inside DOW chemical!"

I damned near got fired. Everybody knew the only illness running through the crews was Spring fever but he got whiney when I told him that was why I was taking off. I did pick a dead day with nothing pressing and things laid out for the crew.

I had one guy that had more funerals to go to than anyone else I had ever seen. One day I asked him if he believed in reincarnation. A slow "No, not really." "You may have to start. You have already buried your grandmother three times lately and she is on the phone calling for you." He went into hasty 'splaining mode and his family got much healthier!

Hu
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manwon said:
You certainly have a wonderful way of looking at things I wish I had the patience you do. I have never been able to suffer a fools.

I really enjoyed reading your post thanks very much,!👍👍👍👍👍
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You suffer them fine my friend. Just not gladly.😂
 
Bob Jewett said:
The above shows that as the stick weight is increased starting at one ounce, the break speed will increase up to a point after which it will start to decrease because your arm can't move the stick well, and the speed drops off faster than the multiplier is increasing.

General physical considerations say that the peak in break speed versus stick weight (for a particular player) will be fairly smooth. That is, if you change the stick weight by an ounce from your current 20, the speed isn't going to drop by 10%. I would expect it to change by less than a percent after you get used to the new weight.

If you wanted to be methodical about break cue weight selection, you could:
1. Measure your current speed.
2. Decrease stick weight until the break speed drops by 5% -- "too light"
3. Increase stick weight until the break speed again drops by 5% -- "too heavy"
4. Go half way between the two extremes -- the Goldilocks weight for you.

It would be nice if someone made an adjustable cue stick that had a large enough variation to get to the 5% drop off points or maybe even 10%. I'd guess that 5% is at 3 or 4 ounces from your best stick weight. Besides adjustable weight, the cue should have adjustable (or constant) balance because bad balance can really throw off your timing.
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Mid cue add ins.
 
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