Taken lessons from any strong player?
- Thread starter jjohnson
- Start date
skiergd011013
Well-known member
Yes, some house pro out of a pool hall in Boston ( complete waste of time), and allison fisher in 2021. Allison was good, but the class size was larger than advertised, which irritated me, and resulted in the one on one time being pretty small. Honestly, i learned far more by myself by taking a video of myself playing, seeing the flaws, and using youtube instruction videos. I dont have a table, so i set up an ironing board at table height, use a mirror, and practice stroke/stance while looking at the mirror.
Earl strickland was at the same venue as allisons lessons, and i played him a few games. He said i was a good player. So i guess im not doing too bad.
Earl strickland was at the same venue as allisons lessons, and i played him a few games. He said i was a good player. So i guess im not doing too bad.
Last edited:
Please specify what is strong. 650, 700, 720, 750, maybe even 800. Anyone better than you?
Over the yrs i've gotten help from a lot of very good players. Buddy, Matlock, Fat Randy, Mike Betts(Tulsa great), Mark Coats(Tulsa guy) are just some who have given me tips/help. all helped move me along. Yes i got better, no i did not surpass any of them.
It makes no difference who I consider "strong?" You tell us who you've taken lessons from that in your experience or estimation were strong players. These are just generalized questions. It isn't a test. There are no right or wrong answers. I'm not asking for names.
"Anything you say can and will be used against you." Oh, pleeeease...
Last edited:
How well they play is usually a minor factor. If I want an instructor, I want them to be strong teachers. The vast majority of students are going to need to focus purely on basic fundamentals anyway. Putting the cart before the horse can be counter productive.
With the exception of advanced players learning strategies for something like one pocket. For that, you want a strong player that knows the game well.
With the exception of advanced players learning strategies for something like one pocket. For that, you want a strong player that knows the game well.
I fear most 'strong players' would sway toward trying to teach and force you into what they do. A really good instructor will evaluate you and your needs and push you toward what you need.
I think I'd seek a well renowned professional instructor rather than a strong player. Could be the same person, but not necessarily.
I think I'd seek a well renowned professional instructor rather than a strong player. Could be the same person, but not necessarily.
I can appreciate your several view points. There is a reason I asked these questions. Let's take shot alignment. It is a fact that a strong player has at least very good consistent shot alignment. And instructors you would think must as well. I mean, what if an instructor missed shots frequently. Would you take lessons from them? For example, while viewing a Tor Lowry video, if he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn would you buy his videos? The fact that he steps right up and demonstrates his techniques gives him credibility and instills confidence. Are you aware that shot alignment can be precisely measured for exact accuracy? And that these tools/techniques to achieve perfect shot alignment can be taught? I don't mean talked about or described or diagramed on a piece of paper but by using tools or techniques to perfect shot alignment while you shoot? How many of your instructors told you about these tools/techniques or even said they existed or even alluded that such even existed? I think not because almost everyone would be shooting the eyes out of the balls and we don't see this. You tell me. But we all know that these tools/techniques must exist because we watch professional pool players demonstrate consistent precise alignment on almost every shot. So you think they just feel the alignment. It may appear so. But no. They have perfected these tools/techniques so efficiently that it appears so. Earl is the most perfect example of this. Fundamentally, I'm thinking most instructions goes something like this: stroke the cue stick in a straight line and hit the cue ball until you can make it go in a straight line. Keep practicing until you get it. I'll see you at the next lesson.
Added note: "to perfect a shot you must practice shooting it 1000 times until it becomes automatic. Then go on to the next shot and practice shooting it for 1000 times..." And so on. Then you are told that here we have 200+ more shots for you to practice. Seriously? How would you like to make this shot and all shots consistently in as little as 100th the practice time. This can be achieved if you can, here it comes fellas, SEE each shot.
If you think this is BS, make this promise. You say, "I am not promising anything. What do I get if I promise?" If this turns out to be BS you can ridicule me as a fool all over the Internet for all time. But if I prove Ultimate SEEING and Execution works and any average person can master the tools/techniques and they prove to be effective then here is your promise: "I will never learn or use Ultimate SEEING tools/techniques at any time during my lifetime." That's it. Simple.
Added note: "to perfect a shot you must practice shooting it 1000 times until it becomes automatic. Then go on to the next shot and practice shooting it for 1000 times..." And so on. Then you are told that here we have 200+ more shots for you to practice. Seriously? How would you like to make this shot and all shots consistently in as little as 100th the practice time. This can be achieved if you can, here it comes fellas, SEE each shot.
If you think this is BS, make this promise. You say, "I am not promising anything. What do I get if I promise?" If this turns out to be BS you can ridicule me as a fool all over the Internet for all time. But if I prove Ultimate SEEING and Execution works and any average person can master the tools/techniques and they prove to be effective then here is your promise: "I will never learn or use Ultimate SEEING tools/techniques at any time during my lifetime." That's it. Simple.
Last edited:
It's very rare to find a 'Top player' that is a 'Top Instructor.'
It takes a certain temperament to deal with the, 'Novice - Intermediate' player.
Fundamentals - High Power pocketing & Precision Position play.
I took a lesson from an old guy. He missed frequently. He was embarrassed to charge me $30 per hour for what he had to teach. I wish I could have had more lessons from him. His name was Jimmy Caras.
dquarasr
Registered
I have taken lessons from:
- An instructor listed in the PBIA for my area four years ago. This instructor ignored my request for fundamentals, spent about 15 minutes with that, then fell into a "formulaic" instruction set he gives everyone. I mean, showing me bank drills are meaningless if I can't deliver the cue straight. Not terribly worth the time or $ invested.
- An APA 7/9 who was pretty good but again didn't focus on my fundamentals as much as I wanted. It was pretty good, but eventually, the first few lessons turned into a formula, where we covered aiming systems, when I know I needed stroke delivery and alignment help. This was helpful but not revelatory. Probably worth the $ for the tidbits I received.
- An APA 7 where we actually covered some stroke delivery topics. This was helpful in that he was able to get me to think differently about certain aspects of my stance and delivery. Worth the $ for the camaraderie (we often struggled with the same reasons for inconsistency) and tips.
- An APA 7/FR650 who has and occasionally still helps with strategy and pattern play. Very worth it (we trade services so no $.)
- An AZB member whom I met with a few times, very knowledgeable, affable, good communicator, but his unorthodox style and my goals didn't mesh. This was gratis, from a guy so enthusiastic about being an ambassador that he gave a few lessons (virtual and in person) gratis.
- And finally, an AZB member who volunteered to help me via video. Holy crap, this was EXACTLY what I needed; stance, stroke, some mental aspects. For some reason, even being the difficult student I am, he did this charitably, and his input was and is invaluable. I will not out him until and unless he says it's OK to name him. I am a particularly difficult and frustrating student: I tend to learn something, it clicks, I'm shooting great, then two months later I'm shooting like crap trying to rediscover what I had learned that got me shooting so well, having to relearn it all over again. It's because I over-analyze, and I forget $h!+. It's like this in everything I do, so learning for me is always two steps forward, one step back, one step forward, two steps back, three steps forward, and so on. But this guy KNOWS HIS STUFF AND KNOWS HOW TO COMMUNICATE. And is a pretty snappy player, too.
Reference: I'm an APA 6/6. I am a low 4-teen FR with a robustness just over 100 but I'm rated that low because most of my matches were four years ago when I first started getting serious about the game and joined a USAPL league. Then I played in APA for three years, which doesn't report to FR. I improved a lot in the interim. More recently I've dropped APA and I'm in BCA, where I am getting FR experience again. Per FR, my last 6 month rating has gone from low 420-430 to around 470 and rising, although my official rating is still 4-teen-something.
No, at 69 years, I'll never surpass the better instructors I've taken lessons from, but it doesn't matter. My goals are modest. I'd be happy if I can get to Fargo 500 / APA 7, and I'd be absolutely thrilled if I can get to FR 550. It's a struggle for me.
- An instructor listed in the PBIA for my area four years ago. This instructor ignored my request for fundamentals, spent about 15 minutes with that, then fell into a "formulaic" instruction set he gives everyone. I mean, showing me bank drills are meaningless if I can't deliver the cue straight. Not terribly worth the time or $ invested.
- An APA 7/9 who was pretty good but again didn't focus on my fundamentals as much as I wanted. It was pretty good, but eventually, the first few lessons turned into a formula, where we covered aiming systems, when I know I needed stroke delivery and alignment help. This was helpful but not revelatory. Probably worth the $ for the tidbits I received.
- An APA 7 where we actually covered some stroke delivery topics. This was helpful in that he was able to get me to think differently about certain aspects of my stance and delivery. Worth the $ for the camaraderie (we often struggled with the same reasons for inconsistency) and tips.
- An APA 7/FR650 who has and occasionally still helps with strategy and pattern play. Very worth it (we trade services so no $.)
- An AZB member whom I met with a few times, very knowledgeable, affable, good communicator, but his unorthodox style and my goals didn't mesh. This was gratis, from a guy so enthusiastic about being an ambassador that he gave a few lessons (virtual and in person) gratis.
- And finally, an AZB member who volunteered to help me via video. Holy crap, this was EXACTLY what I needed; stance, stroke, some mental aspects. For some reason, even being the difficult student I am, he did this charitably, and his input was and is invaluable. I will not out him until and unless he says it's OK to name him. I am a particularly difficult and frustrating student: I tend to learn something, it clicks, I'm shooting great, then two months later I'm shooting like crap trying to rediscover what I had learned that got me shooting so well, having to relearn it all over again. It's because I over-analyze, and I forget $h!+. It's like this in everything I do, so learning for me is always two steps forward, one step back, one step forward, two steps back, three steps forward, and so on. But this guy KNOWS HIS STUFF AND KNOWS HOW TO COMMUNICATE. And is a pretty snappy player, too.
Reference: I'm an APA 6/6. I am a low 4-teen FR with a robustness just over 100 but I'm rated that low because most of my matches were four years ago when I first started getting serious about the game and joined a USAPL league. Then I played in APA for three years, which doesn't report to FR. I improved a lot in the interim. More recently I've dropped APA and I'm in BCA, where I am getting FR experience again. Per FR, my last 6 month rating has gone from low 420-430 to around 470 and rising, although my official rating is still 4-teen-something.
No, at 69 years, I'll never surpass the better instructors I've taken lessons from, but it doesn't matter. My goals are modest. I'd be happy if I can get to Fargo 500 / APA 7, and I'd be absolutely thrilled if I can get to FR 550. It's a struggle for me.
Hardy har har. It's okay. I have a thick skin. I am used to being the brunt of jokes in this forum. Some are somewhat funny.
One reminded me of a scene from "The Deer Hunter."
"I'm gonna put him on his fucking ass.
Stan is crazy.
Why? What happened?
Stan is crazy.
There's a Green Beret!
Hey! Whoo!
No kidding.
Jerry, Jerry, give the man a drink.
Hey!
Give him a drink.
Sir?
Sir?
Sir? Na zdorovije
Na zdorovije
Na zdorovije
Don't cause any kind of problem, huh?
Nah, I wanna talk to the man. I wanna talk to the man. We're goin' over there.
Sir, Mike Vronsky.
Nick. This the groom, Steve.
I'm the best man.
We're goin' airborne, sir. What's it like?
I hope they send us where the bullets are flyin'.
That's right.
Fighting's the worst, huh?
That's right.
Fuck it.
Fuck it? What did he say?
Fuck it...
That's what I thought.
Well, what's it like over there?
Can you tell us anything?
Fuck it.
Okay, fuck it.
Fuck him.
Fuck it. Hey!
Michael, hey.
Hey.
Fuck who?... Fuck who?
Who the hell is he?
Who the fuck knows?
He looks like a fuckin' hillbilly.
Give him another drink, Jerry. Just the same.
Hey! Fuck it!
Fuck you."
I was editing my posted comment while you replied to it. I am done now. It's in about the best shape it can be in.
You might want to reread it. If not, okay.
Too much sell.
Contact points give you the ideal shot for any layout. The work is better spent referencing to these lines than whatever techno gimmick that comes up.
Still want to shoot
Well-known member
In my opinion, no need to name him. glad someone was nice enough to help for free, and it was a benefit.
<snip>
I don't know if you read my posted comment above that begins: "I can appreciate your several view points..."
Sounds like you have experienced some of what I commented about there.
Let me suggest that you must make sure you can see clearly.
Make sure you can focus your eyes on everything on the table you look at.
Have your eyes checked if you are not positive you can do this.
Don't sell yourself short.
Believe me, knowledge exists to efficiently improve you game beyond your imagination.
On another note, did you learn any "confidential pool secrets" from any of your instructors?
Meaning knowledge or techniques, as far as you know, that are not already well known throughout the sport already?
I was fortunate to have seen real pool in the 70s. What it is, how it goes, the ways of cash - the general overview. For my purposes the rest is intuitive. I've seen so many get stuck long term - maybe figuratively to a player or two, maybe not. Why go off when the table time is a tiny fraction with a hundred times the benefit?
I am not exactly sure what you are referring to with "contact points." The only shot alignment contact points I know of are the cue tip/cue ball or cue ball strike point, and the cue ball/object ball contact point. Generally speaking, we all know what these are. When I speak of a tool/technique, I am alluding to not an actual physical material thing, I am referring to a mental perceptual concept. Thinking about something that probably no one has thought of exactly in the same way before. You speak of "work is better spent referencing these lines." What does this mean? Explain just the simplest example how this is done. It is the how or execution I am asking for. How can you achieve your goal exactly precisely and guarantee you can be assured of this, nearly almost every single time. How do you work at this referencing process exactly?
I am not claiming anything about this post quoted above. Bear with me. Have any of you interacted with ChatGPT 3.5? I have a few months ago for free. It blew my mind. After a few weeks I stopped. It's reasoning was often shattered and it lies. Carefully examine this post I am replying to here.
What does this mean: "I was fortunate to have seen real pool in the 70s. What it is, how it goes, the ways of cash - the general overview."
Or this: "For my purposes the rest is intuitive."
Or this: "I've seen so many get stuck long term - maybe figuratively to a player or two, maybe not."
Or this: "Why go off when the table time is a tiny fraction with a hundred times the benefit?"
Is this last sentence some sort of parable?
Is parable the right word?
What does any of this mean?
This isn't the first time, I believe, this forum member has made a reply comment I found sort of perplexing or odd.
Very strange.
Is this some sort of joke?
Maybe this forum member can create a bizarre character for television or movies that exploits this unique rapartee for comedic effect.
Is rapartee the right word?