Taking the Air out of the Predator Air

[I rack balls]

I personally have not had control issues with p-air. The extra length helps, I am jumping making cut shots, I am working on drawing the rock. At first I was struggling but once I gripped the cue at the very back it was cake. When I am about 3 inches from a ball I get over and make a good hit. I have had no problems with control.......... sounds like you had preconceived notions of what it would be like and convinced yourself that it is inaccurate because of the weight. It pops the ball up with a medium speed and I don't have to jack up very high, with a center ball hit where is the deflection? I rarely hit a jump that feels bad with it. I think it is as good/better than all of them that I have tried.

Eric.

 

[John Barton]

I personally have not had control issues with p-air. The extra length helps, I am jumping making cut shots, I am working on drawing the rock. At first I was struggling but once I gripped the cue at the very back it was cake. When I am about 3 inches from a ball I get over and make a good hit. I have had no problems with control.......... sounds like you had preconceived notions of what it would be like and convinced yourself that it is inaccurate because of the weight. It pops the ball up with a medium speed and I don't have to jack up very high, with a center ball hit where is the deflection? I rarely hit a jump that feels bad with it. I think it is as good/better than all of them that I have tried.

Eric.

I have no preconceived notions. In fact I had not heard of it until some mentioned it on this site.

My Taiwanese friend who is an A-level player and who sponsors many Taiwanese pros agrees with me.

Like I said it's only my opinion. And that opinion is based on extensive, i'd say much more extensive than just about everyone on this board, experience with just about every jump cue made.

There are a few here who have been to my shop and seen my collection of jump cues. I have since sold all of them but at one time I had at least one of almost every jump cue made.

And now, I don't do demos unless asked to and I don't actively sell the jump cues or the jump breaks. I sell them passively by inserting a well timed, "how about a Fury Break Jump" once in a while. So for me now it's more academic than financial.

So and so cue claims to be "the best" so if I get the opportunity to try it then I will. And I did now with the Predator Air and found it lacking. Others may not share my opinion, especially if they already bought one.

My only concern is to make sure that if it's better then I want to emulate it so that we are offering the best product we can to our customers. It's not so I am not worried about it. And I don't think that they deserve to label it as the most accurate jump cue on the market.

I hope that someone like Platinum billiards does some comprehensive testing on jump cues. With companies making claims like Predator is it would be nice to see some unbiased reviews. - mine is biased by experience and of course by affiliation with a company selling a competing product. -

 

[bigdaddygerald]

I hope its ok for me to express this opinion on this tread. Jump cues are all pretty simple to hit and are a great novelty item but it seems to me that they have taken all the penalty out of good safety play.

I played in a tourney tonite in fact that only allowed jump cues if both players agreed to use them in their matches. Any objection and they were disallowed.

I found this refreshing and it was nice to see some jam up players have to sweat a simple kick shot cause they have gotten used to ole stumpy getting them out of trouble.

I do think there cool and fun to play around with but instead of adding to the game I think they kinda rob the game of one of the best shots out there......a good safe!

 

[BPG24]

I hope its ok for me to express this opinion on this tread. Jump cues are all pretty simple to hit and are a great novelty item but it seems to me that they have taken all the penalty out of good safety play.

I played in a tourney tonite in fact that only allowed jump cues if both players agreed to use them in their matches. Any objection and they were disallowed.

I found this refreshing and it was nice to see some jam up players have to sweat a simple kick shot cause they have gotten used to ole stumpy getting them out of trouble.

I do think there cool and fun to play around with but instead of adding to the game I think they kinda rob the game of one of the best shots out there......a good safe!

I wish more people felt this way, as safeties is the strongest part of my game..... I hate jumping all together, and feel it takes strategy away from the game...

 

[atthecat]

Cheap Jump

I bought one of those $39.00 J&J jump/break cues off eBay and I love it! Haven't fouled on 1 jump yet! Terrible break though. I can't seem to park my cue with a phenoic tip.

 

[CreeDo]

I thought it was interesting about the 25 dollar leather tip option. You pay more for what's a less effective (and probably cheaper to make) tip.

Maybe it's to help make the stick tournament-legal in places that don't allow phenolic tips? But it seems like anyone banning those tips is either thinking of the break stick or they're gonna ban jumping too.

 

[John Barton]

I hope its ok for me to express this opinion on this tread. Jump cues are all pretty simple to hit and are a great novelty item but it seems to me that they have taken all the penalty out of good safety play.

I played in a tourney tonite in fact that only allowed jump cues if both players agreed to use them in their matches. Any objection and they were disallowed.

I found this refreshing and it was nice to see some jam up players have to sweat a simple kick shot cause they have gotten used to ole stumpy getting them out of trouble.

I do think there cool and fun to play around with but instead of adding to the game I think they kinda rob the game of one of the best shots out there......a good safe!

Some people feel that the jump cue has enhanced the game because now a good safe is one that takes away the jump shot. And also the push to a jump shot is always an exciting shot as it put the incoming player to a real test of nerves.

A real jam up player can kick as well as jump. In fact back in the day when the rules were two shot push out players didn't kick as well as they do today. Now to be a complete player you must know how to kick and jump and when to do either.

 

[BPG24]

Some people feel that the jump cue has enhanced the game because now a good safe is one that takes away the jump shot. And also the push to a jump shot is always an exciting shot as it put the incoming player to a real test of nerves.

A real jam up player can kick as well as jump. In fact back in the day when the rules were two shot push out players didn't kick as well as they do today. Now to be a complete player you must know how to kick and jump and when to do either.

I try to play safeties that people can't jump their way out of.... Because I have found that people who use the jump cue alot, and use it well, don't kick near as often as they used to... and some youger players don't kick very well at all...

You are correct, to be a top notch player, you must be able to do both very very well....

 

[John Barton]

I bought one of those $39.00 J&J jump/break cues off eBay and I love it! Haven't fouled on 1 jump yet! Terrible break though. I can't seem to park my cue with a phenoic tip.

Try aiming slightly higher on the cueball than you are right now. About a tip's worth. Very often people tend to hit the ball in a different spot than they think they are aiming at.

So if you aim a little higher you might hit the ball just right.

I also recommend a Break Rak. Those things are worth their weight in gold for practicing the break.

 

[WesleyW]

John

You stated exactly the right factors in judging a jump cue, getting up, but having control, and I agree with you, the ultra-lights can get it up, but suffer accuracy and control issues. A good example would be the Dr. Popper jump cue by McDermott.

And for these reasons too, is why I said, in my previous review, that the X-Jumper with the X2 tip (contains leather in a darkish tan colored phenolic type tip) was the best jump cue I have ever used in 46 years of playing. It has the cue weight feel to it (ash shaft, 1/2" bowling ball ferrule), but gets the cue up and over, with almost the feel of a regular leather tip. (and I wonder how Richard is doing health-wise?)

And yes John, I have tried yours too.

I also agree with John. I've played with the p-air, and the deflection of the shaft sure helps the CB jump. The p-air jumps way easier than other jumpcues I've tried. But when you are talking about "control", I don't think it is that accurate. When I jump with the p-air, the hit doesn't feel solid, it shakes like hell, it's like the p-air shaking out of my hand. I haven't tried that much jumpsticks, but the best I've tried is the jump/break x-breaker. It jumps easy, and good control. I think I would love it even more when de x-breaker has a white diamond on it.

 

[worriedbeef]

First of all john, thanks for making this thread, and laying out your argument in an intelligent, backed up, coherent manner.

i was tempted by the predator jump cue, and if i'm honest it's mainly because of predator's hype and claims. the price put me off though. all the reviews i've read seem to rate extremely favourably. the problem is though is predator unashamedly say their cue is better than any other jump cue. fair enough! i like people to have confidence in their product - talk it up by all means! but because the cue is so light it will naturally be easier to get the ball airborne. instant performance feedback! so all the people who try it shoot a few jump shots and think to themselves "wow, i can jump the ball easier -it IS better!" which is why i have been taking all these rave reviews with a pinch of salt, as they say. it may well offer less control as a compromise, but that is a far more difficult thing to instantly evaluate. predator probably know this, and probably also know that the best quality to have in a jump cue when it comes to generating good reviews and hype, is just being able to get the ball in the air easier.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I'm not the biggest fan of Predator in the world, but I'm going to ask one relevent question:

Has Predator ever made a claim they couldn't back up? They have the lowest deflection shaft on the market. They have the fastest break cue as well. Do you think, just maybe, they did the same testing on their jump cues before they made their claim?

 

[vin]

how about comparing predator air and mezz airdrive? has anyone tried it yet? im currently thinking of which to buy

 

[John Barton]

I'm not the biggest fan of Predator in the world, but I'm going to ask one relevent question:

Has Predator ever made a claim they couldn't back up? They have the lowest deflection shaft on the market. They have the fastest break cue as well. Do you think, just maybe, they did the same testing on their jump cues before they made their claim?

A lot of folks feel that Predator has made many claims that they can't or won't back up.

I don't know about the ones that don't relate to jump cues.

I can only state that according to my experience the Predator Air does not live up the billing as "the most accurate jump cue in the world".

It does not jump inherently better than most similar (ultralight) jump cues already on the market. It does not offer the same amount of control as heavier jump cues already on the market.

So I do not know how they tested it to arrive at the conclusion that is the "most accurate jump cue on the market". I would love to see some published data on the testing so that the testing could be duplicated by others to see if the results hold up. I don't know what Predator means by control or accuracy, maybe it's not the same thing I mean.

I would love to see any type of consistent test for a lot of billiard products that could be applied fairly and equitably.

Until then though - it's all unverified hype.

 

[whitewolf]

Very nice post John and excellent points, all of which I agree with.

A friend of mine just bought a Bunjee and asked me what I thought of it. I said that it was considered the best jump cue and I then asked him if he could put the butt in his big pouch on his cue case (LOL).

You should have seen the look on his face! I pulled out my three piece Stealth to show him what I was talking about.

And for that reason alone, I would never want a Bunjee since I am not a Pro player.

 

[1hit1der]

Thanks for the post, John. It's been an interesting read.

What do you consider when you talk about "control"? I assume it factors in aiming, spin, and cue ball position afterwards. Do you have a standard set of 10 shots that you use to test the control of jump cues? If you do, could you explain at least some of them, or diagram them? Thanks.

 

[shanesinnott]

I'm not the biggest fan of Predator in the world, but I'm going to ask one relevent question:

Has Predator ever made a claim they couldn't back up? They have the lowest deflection shaft on the market. They have the fastest break cue as well. Do you think, just maybe, they did the same testing on their jump cues before they made their claim?

To my knowledge, Predator has made two claims in the past that they could not prove.

Very earlier on, they advertised the 314 shaft as having Perfect Radial Consistency. Although the 10 piece splice construction of the Predator shaft is much more radially consistent than a conventional one piece shaft, it is not 'Perfect', they realized this and then stopped claiming perfect radial consistency.

They also have claimed that the 314 shaft produced more spin on the cueball than any other shaft (many players agreed/agree with Predator, however, Predator has never been able to come up with an effective and accurate way of measuring spin so the jury is still out on this claim IMO)

They did come up with an accurate way of measuring cueball deflection and are able to back up that claim with data. They did come up with an accurate way of measuring break cue speed and are able to back up that claim with data.

We (Platinum Billiards) have independently tested many cues and our testing does show that in the case of cueball deflection with the 314-2 and Z-2 and in the case of Break speed with the BK2, Predators claims are accurate and true.

I have tried the Predator Air and John has seen me jump at his booth on more than one occasion (I have a pretty good jump game) and I would have to agree from a Players perspective that the Predator Air IS the most accurate jump cue I have used. Unfortunately, at this time, Platinum Billiards does not have an accurate way of confirming or debunking this claim as we do not have a machine that can test a jump cue. Predator however, does. They built a machine that allowed them to test all jump cues and take the human factor out of the equation which allowed them to tweak the Predator Air to become what it is now.

IMO, it is HIGHLY unlikely that Predator would make a performance claim that could be debunked by Platinum or anyone else for that matter and I would have no problem debunking any claim made by any company, especially Predator

So for now, it will most likely be up to the consumer to try the Predator Air and decide for themselves if it is 'better' (at least until we or some other company builds a jump robot to confirm or refute Predators claims)

To paraphrase Freddy B..... 'Jump on Brother'

 

[JoeyA]

To my knowledge, Predator has made two claims in the past that they could not prove.

Very earlier on, they advertised the 314 shaft as having Perfect Radial Consistency. Although the 10 piece splice construction of the Predator shaft is much more radially consistent than a conventional one piece shaft, it is not 'Perfect', they realized this and then stopped claiming perfect radial consistency.

They also have claimed that the 314 shaft produced more spin on the cueball than any other shaft (many players agreed/agree with Predator, however, Predator has never been able to come up with an effective and accurate way of measuring spin so the jury is still out on this claim IMO)

They did come up with an accurate way of measuring cueball deflection and are able to back up that claim with data. They did come up with an accurate way of measuring break cue speed and are able to back up that claim with data.

We (Platinum Billiards) have independently tested many cues and our testing does show that in the case of cueball deflection with the 314-2 and Z-2 and in the case of Break speed with the BK2, Predators claims are accurate and true.

I have tried the Predator Air and John has seen me jump at his booth on more than one occasion (I have a pretty good jump game) and I would have to agree from a Players perspective that the Predator Air IS the most accurate jump cue I have used. Unfortunately, at this time, Platinum Billiards does not have an accurate way of confirming or debunking this claim as we do not have a machine that can test a jump cue. Predator however, does. They built a machine that allowed them to test all jump cues and take the human factor out of the equation which allowed them to tweak the Predator Air to become what it is now.

IMO, it is HIGHLY unlikely that Predator would make a performance claim that could be debunked by Platinum or anyone else for that matter and I would have no problem debunking any claim made by any company, especially Predator

So for now, it will most likely be up to the consumer to try the Predator Air and decide for themselves if it is 'better' (at least until we or some other company builds a jump robot to confirm or refute Predators claims)

To paraphrase Freddy B..... 'Jump on Brother'

I have never liked jump shots, because I did it so poorly. I have used a few different jump cues over the years and I became a better jumper after a lesson with John Schmidt. Shortly after that I purchased a Predator Air Jump Cue and became an even better jumper, especially at long distances. I can also on occasion do a jump masse with the Predator air which I would never have tried with any other jump cue.


Hey, John: How about showing us all of the jump shots in your test? YOu should add a jump/curve/masse shot to your test.

CueTable Help

John, do you have a DVD or a word document that illustrates jump shot technique? If not how about making up a word document that could help us all become better jump shot artists.

I think one of the problems with a lot of instructional stuff, is it fails to tell the student what they may be doing wrong which is at least as important as what they should be doing correctly. (Like your statement about you may be hitting lower than you think, so try hitting one tip higher etc.)

Thanks,

JoeyA

 

[CreeDo]

I don't wanna sound like the noob amateur that I am, but is anyone getting a whiff of "wtf" at all this concern about controlling the spin on your jump shot?

In a lot of jump situations it's damn near a given that the CB will be landing with backspin, though I know side and even topspin are possible. But I think even by pro standards your goal is to simply successfully jump and try to sink the ball. When I see jumps by the TV players, I do not see any attempt at sidespin, and never have I see visible follow. The cue ball seems to arrive strictly with center ball or center draw.

I've seen the nifty youtube video of one of our forum members doing the railfirst inside english "impossible cut" jumps but this seems more like a cute exhibition shot than like a sensible option in a game.

In short, does anyone REALLY care about the jump stick's ability to put english on the shot? Not disagreeing with the review, and I'll admit I'm a jumping noob. But if someone tells me "this one gets you up in the air easier, but this one lets you put more accurate spin on the cueball" I will dive facefirst to grab cue #1.

 

[cuesblues]

I know other players much better at jumping than me, that had very light jump cues custom built and they swear by them. I have a teammate that just jacks up his player and makes incredible jump shots very accurately. Most of the top players i've seen are very good at the kick safe which is what i've been working on, and rarely try a jump shot. Untill this thread, I have just been happy to hit the ball without giving up ball & hand. Now that I know you can actually control the ball better with a different jump cue I will start trying other ones I already own to check out the difference. I may even weigh them. I am not great at jumping the ball, getting better, and the other night playing BCA 9-ball, after my opponent played a safe on me, with all of the balls on the table, I jumped the length of the table over three or four balls into the one ball on the back rail, reverse banked the one into the opposite corner, and caromed the cue ball off the one into an 8-9 combination. That was a 7-point shot in BCA, and I did it with my Jerico Stinger broken down into the jump cue configuration.

Could someone recommend some various tips for jump cues because I would like to try a couple of nice custom 3-piece j / b cues acquired in trades, that were used as players. These cues were made a long time ago before all of the high tech tips were on the market, they don't seem suitable for jumping and breaking, and they are not even quick release. Someone told me about their Varney j/b and I think it has a G10 tip.