Taking the luck out of 9 Ball

how would you do it

  • Call all shots

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Call pocket

    Votes: 16 88.9%

  • Total voters
    18
SUPERSTAR said:
Go back to 2 foul ball in hand, with an express rule so that nothing spots up and it is ball in hand after a foul on the break. Call the money ball.

Back in the day, with 2 foul ball in hand, IMO, the better player would win the majority of the time.

I agree with you, SUPERSTAR! :)

A few years ago at the Trump's Marina 10-Ball Challenge in Atlantic City, the rules were push-out after the break AND at any time during the game. If you pushed out and your opponent didn't want to shoot it, then you MUST pocket the ball or face giving the opponent ball in hand. Lots of calculated risk-taking with this format.

Two-shot/push-out, though, would remove a lot of the luck factor in the game of 9-ball as we know it today.

JAM
 
tonyc said:
The UPA tried to have a vote this week on taking the luck out of 9 ball.

Call all shots was one of the things.
This means that you have to call everything, So if you missed a ball and left the next guy hooked he could make you play again. It also would eliminate flukes, 9s on the break and other balls going in.
will this be better for 9 ball or kill it for viewers??
Call pocket was the other suggested one.
I am intersted to know your thoughts on this.
Tony Crosby
I think call ball & pocket would be alright. I would also see jump cues disappear or at least if you hook yourself you can't use them.
 
unknownpro said:
Call shot, call safeties was used on the PCA tour. I thought it sucked. Most of the "luck" in 9-ball has to do with position play and racking, not lucking balls in the pocket. Playing call shot takes away 2-way shots (except once per rack they would let you call two, weird).

unknownpro

I agree, this would take some creative shots out of the game. It seems very rare among high level players for slop shots to decide a frame anyway.

Fluked safeties are much more common, but it would really slow the game down I think if players had to sepcify the exact nature of their safety as they commonly choose routes with 3 or more possible blocking balls.

I think it makes some sense to re-spot the 9-ball if potted to ensure it is the last ball potted.

Another option to largely get rid of luck in safety play is to play each visit ball in hand. This is too easy for pro-level 9-ball but would provide a tough challenge with 15 balls.
 
Celtic said:
If they are so intent on playing rotation pool then I really think they need to look at a single point per a ball 15 ball rotation game where the first player to 75 points or so wins. Winner of the lag breaks, anything that goes they keep, then they play rotation pool, hitting the lowest ball on the table first and anything they make after that is a point, they shoot till they miss, person who sinks the last ball breaks the incomming rack. It is really simple and merges the best parts of straight pool and 9-ball all into one.
I like the sound of that game! Could be races to 50, 100, 150 or best of 5 sets of race to 30.
 
Actually...

JAM said:
I agree with you, SUPERSTAR! :)

A few years ago at the Trump's Marina 10-Ball Challenge in Atlantic City, the rules were push-out after the break AND at any time during the game. If you pushed out and your opponent didn't want to shoot it, then you MUST pocket the ball or face giving the opponent ball in hand. Lots of calculated risk-taking with this format.

Two-shot/push-out, though, would remove a lot of the luck factor in the game of 9-ball as we know it today.

JAM
BLIZZARD WEEKEND! What a load of fun THAT was. How was Trump liking it when a boatload of gamblers got snowed in at the casino.

Actually, i believe that WHOEVER decided to take the shot after a push out, must pocket the ball or it was ball in hand.

PERFECT EXAMPLE! At that tournament In the first round, I had Alcano 6-5, and he crapped in a 10-ball, and proceeded run a 2 pack afterwards. Had he been forced to call the money, i might have had a better chance, and i lost 10-8!!!

To this day, i can still see that 10 ball crashing into that ball, and crapping in the hole!

One of the reasons i have no respect for rotation games that have the high luck factor.
 
Choices

I think in pro comps there are not that many flukes anyway, but I am in favour of call pocket with no penalty if you miss and get safe.

In amateur comps the format could be whichever the TD decides.

At least if there are choices, as in 8ball, you can decide to enter or not.

P.S. Hows is going Tony.

Jon.
 
I think its funny everyone complaining about luck but I dont hear them complaining about it when something lucky happens to them just when something lucky happens to the other player!! Luck is part of every game in pool just deal with it. If you play call pocket all you have to do is call that pocket who knows you may hit the crap outta the ball it rattles in that hole hits the tit shoots arond the table and goes right back in to the pocket you called now, is that a luck shot? So all you complainers out there the next time you make a lucky shot in any game your playing why dont you spot the ball up since you dont like luck that much. Also making the 9 on the break is a legit way to win a game I dont know why people always whine about it. The ones that whine are probably the ones that cant/dont know how to make it. Same rules in 8ball if the 8 goes in on the break you win. I know a guy that during his league season (18 weeks) he made the 8 on the break 24 times. Now is that luck or does he just know how to break them? You tell me! Oh and quit whinning about luck you have to take the good with the bad plus if you play higher races the best player should/would always win, but the lesser player may have some luck on his side that match and just destroy the better player. It goes both ways just face it luck is part of every sport there is. There is no way to take luck out of any game so just quit trying to do it!
 
Last edited:
lukeinva said:
I think its funny everyone complaining about luck but I dont hear them complaining about it when something lucky happens to them just when something lucky happens to the other player!! Luck is part of every game in pool just deal with it. If you play call pocket all you have to do is call that pocket who knows you may hit the crap outta the ball it rattles in that hole hits the tit shoots arond the table and goes right back in to the pocket you called now, is that a luck shot? So all you complainers out there the next time you make a lucky shot in any game your playing why dont you spot the ball up since you dont like luck that much. Also making the 9 on the break is a legit way to win a game I dont know why people always whine about it. The ones that whine are probably the ones that cant/dont know how to make it. Same rules in 8ball if the 8 goes in on the break you win. I know a guy that during his league season (18 weeks) he made the 8 on the break 24 times. Now is that luck or does he just know how to break them? You tell me! Oh and quit whinning about luck you have to take the good with the bad plus if you play higher races the best player should/would always win, but the lesser player may have some luck on his side that match and just destroy the better player. It goes both ways just face it luck is part of every sport there is. There is no way to take luck out of any game so just quit trying to do it!


Wow!
Sounds like you get your fair share?
 
Some interesting answers.
The reason i didnt put a 3rd on the poll was because one of these is going to come into affect on the 9 Ball tour in January. Most people like the idea of call pocket. I just think that maybe with enough info from you guys that they may take this poll intio consideration.

Things are going well thanks Jon. When you coming over again?.
 
shortshooter said:
Wow!
Sounds like you get your fair share?


As I am sure that you have lucked in plenty of balls yourself. All I am saying is people always complain about it until they do it then they will laugh and go wow that was lucky. Luck goes both ways.
 
Jersey said:
Change the format to 10-Ball...

Ditto.

but if you want to keep it 9-ball, didn't Grady matthews come up with a format that eliminated a lot of the luck?

Barbara
 
tonyc said:
The UPA tried to have a vote this week on taking the luck out of 9 ball.

Call all shots was one of the things.
This means that you have to call everything, So if you missed a ball and left the next guy hooked he could make you play again. It also would eliminate flukes, 9s on the break and other balls going in.
will this be better for 9 ball or kill it for viewers??
Call pocket was the other suggested one.
I am intersted to know your thoughts on this.
Tony Crosby
I was not going to vote for either. I do think, it will kill it, for viewers. I then read your comment, that it is going to happen, so I voted for the lesser of two evils. I am wondering, is someone getting, more than there fair share of luck? If not what is the reason, for changing the rules?

Tracy
 
Sure, there's a lot of luck in 9-ball but even in short races to 9 or 7, the player that plays better usually wins. It's easy to remember the lucky shot at 8-8 and feel that it determined the outcome of the match. But what about the safety roll at 1-0?

I took a look at our Tiger Planet Pool Tour 9 ball rankings for 2005. Here is the top 10 in order of money won:

Shawn Putnam
Mike Davis
Ryan McCreesh
Kevin West
BJ Ussery
Lee Holt
Joe DiPietro
Earl Strickland
Jerry Slivka
Niels Feijen

These are all excellent players. No one lucked their way onto this list. All have winning percentages on our tour of 72% or better. Bottom line is the better players still take home the money on Sunday.

Andy
 
tonyc said:
Some interesting answers.
The reason i didnt put a 3rd on the poll was because one of these is going to come into affect on the 9 Ball tour in January. Most people like the idea of call pocket. I just think that maybe with enough info from you guys that they may take this poll intio consideration.

Things are going well thanks Jon. When you coming over again?.
That's bad news. Call pocket 9-ball sucks. Call anything 9-ball sucks. Rack the balls right, tighten the pockets, extend the races, add more balls, but please don't change the rules, it's dumb. Just play some sets by these rules and you will see it doesn't help a damned thing.

unknownpro
 
unknownpro said:
That's bad news. Call pocket 9-ball sucks. Call anything 9-ball sucks. Rack the balls right, tighten the pockets, extend the races, add more balls, but please don't change the rules, it's dumb. Just play some sets by these rules and you will see it doesn't help a damned thing.

unknownpro

I totally agree with your idea of just making it tougher to run out.

The most interesting aspects of nine ball, perhaps even the only interesting apsects of nine ball, are defense, kicking and two-way shots, and all of these skills will be greatly deemphasized. This is yet another step in the direction of poorly preparing our American players for the next World Pool Championships.

When will American men's pool make the changes that will give our players a chance to beat the top Asians and top Europeans in international competition?After all, 2005 was a year in which a) a Fillipino dominated Derby City, b) three of the top four at the BCA Open were from Europe, c) three of the top four at the WPC were Asian, and d) the top three in the US Open were all Fillipinos. Particularly during the WPC, the sentiment on the AZB forum was that the poor results of the Americans this year are, at least in part, explained by the fact that the playing conditions in American pro pool did not properly prepare the American contingent to shine on the international stage.

Woe is us if we continue to improperly prepare our players to shine. All I see here is a recipe for continued American futility on the international scene. Changing the game is not a rational approach to regaining America's nineball playing pedigree as a nation. Just one man's opinion, of course.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top