Tangent Line

Tennesseejoe

Tennesseejoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In this diagram the 3 ball does not go directly in the upper left corner pocket. The shooter decides to jack up to 45 degrees for the shot and cut the object ball to the corner.. When shot, the cue ball does not follow the diagramed tangent line but goes directly towards the other cue ball on the rail. Should the shot be called a foul under World Standadized Rules?

My thought is since the cue is elevated, the cue ball jumps up therefore changing the actual tangent line. As referee, how would you determine if this is a good shot or foul?

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Tennesseejoe said:
In this diagram the 3 ball does not go directly in the upper left corner pocket. The shooter decides to jack up to 45 degrees for the shot and cut the object ball to the corner.. When shot, the cue ball does not follow the diagramed tangent line but goes directly towards the other cue ball on the rail. Should the shot be called a foul under World Standadized Rules?

My thought is since the cue is elevated, the cue ball jumps up therefore changing the actual tangent line. As referee, how would you determine if this is a good shot or foul?

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IMO its almost impossible for this to happen without a foul occurring.
 
Some times when balls are close cutting them really thin is the same as shooting straight ahead. Does not have to be a foul.
 
If the cueball goes forward from the 3 with a jacked-up cue, it's a foul. Even if the cueball is in the air, the only way it will get pushed forward from the tangent line to that area of the table is on a double hit. If it drew back or went on the tangent line, not a foul.
 
alphadog said:
Some times when balls are close cutting them really thin is the same as shooting straight ahead. Does not have to be a foul.
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Not on the shot as diagramed. No way to get to the cb on the rail short of jacking-up almost vertically and even then a foul is likely.. Go try it.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
In this diagram the 3 ball does not go directly in the upper left corner pocket. The shooter decides to jack up to 45 degrees for the shot and cut the object ball to the corner.. When shot, the cue ball does not follow the diagramed tangent line but goes directly towards the other cue ball on the rail. Should the shot be called a foul under World Standadized Rules?

My thought is since the cue is elevated, the cue ball jumps up therefore changing the actual tangent line. As referee, how would you determine if this is a good shot or foul?

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good hit or not is based on how the cue ball reacts
watch dr dave's segment on this
 
bbb said:
good hit or not is based on how the cue ball reacts
watch dr dave's segment on this
Click to expand...
At 5:58 Dr Dave says this is a foul...I'd like to see this in slow motion. He is jacked up and the cue ball goes up.The tangent line goes more vertical than horizontal. Tangent lines are not always horizontal and my guess is they seldom go perfectly horizontal. As is in my example, since this is an angle shot, my shot is more vertical than horizontal and the 'benefit of doubt' goes to the shooter. I would also like to see shot at 7:26 in slow motion. It goes forward after hitting the object ball ON THE WAY UP, then comes down with back spin.
 
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hang-the-9 said:
If the cueball goes forward from the 3 with a jacked-up cue, it's a foul. Even if the cueball is in the air, the only way it will get pushed forward from the tangent line to that area of the table is on a double hit. If it drew back or went on the tangent line, not a foul.
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As an example: put a cue ball on the table and an object ball 5 inches away. Now assume you are attmpting a jump shot over the 5 but the cue ball hits the 5 on the way down. If it hits the 5 on the way down on its forward curve, both balls will go forward. NO FOUL. The same situation could likely happen when the balls are set up 1/2 inch apart.
 
Because the cue ball is so close to the object ball, it would have to jump very, very high to get as far forward as indicated. In the vast majority of shots like that where the shooter tries to argue, "Well, it jumped over," there is no such high path.
 
it is up to the opponent to before the shot to straighten out what is going to be called a foul or not. doing it after the shot is a joke.

and without a ref. looking closely you have to give it to the shooter unless you want to have a never ending argument.
right or wrong.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
As an example: put a cue ball on the table and an object ball 5 inches away. Now assume you are attmpting a jump shot over the 5 but the cue ball hits the 5 on the way down. If it hits the 5 on the way down on its forward curve, both balls will go forward. NO FOUL. The same situation could likely happen when the balls are set up 1/2 inch apart.
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If the ball jumped over the first ball, sure that could be possible that it went over the top and forward, but that would be super obvious. If someone can jump the cueball like that from 1/2 inch or less as seen in the diagram with a full cue, sign them up for the pro tour. Even then I would bet against any player shooting that shot with a normal cue to make the ball and follow from the jump. From 5 inches away, more likely but again that would be very clear that is what happened.
 
Tennesseejoe said:
In this diagram the 3 ball does not go directly in the upper left corner pocket. The shooter decides to jack up to 45 degrees for the shot and cut the object ball to the corner.. When shot, the cue ball does not follow the diagramed tangent line but goes directly towards the other cue ball on the rail. Should the shot be called a foul under World Standadized Rules?

My thought is since the cue is elevated, the cue ball jumps up therefore changing the actual tangent line. As referee, how would you determine if this is a good shot or foul?

View attachment 698064
Click to expand...

a) One could use throw (right spin on the CB) to pot the 3 .......

but back to the question ask::

b) I agree that if the CB rolls forward of the tangent line (without arcing forward via massé) then there was a double hit on the CB.
 
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Hard to tell exactly how close they are, sometimes an inch makes all the difference. If close but not too close, and rolled with pocket speed, it’s possible to wind up where other CB is .. but most likely a foul
 
tim913 said:
Hard to tell exactly how close they are, sometimes an inch makes all the difference. If close but not too close, and rolled with pocket speed, it’s possible to wind up where other CB is .. but most likely a foul
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If you could use normal follow without miscuing (good luck with that) the shot looks straight enough that you could even reach the long rail well past the other CB.

pj
chgo
 
Tennesseejoe said:
In this diagram the 3 ball does not go directly in the upper left corner pocket. ...
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In that diagram, it sure looks like the CB-3 are pointed into the pocket. Maybe the left side of the pocket, but into the pocket. Is that what you intended to show?
 
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