Taper roll/warp/does it matter??

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bbb

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BRIANMOTDT ASKED THIS QUESTION
taper roll = warp

I don't know who coined that term but a warp is a warp. The Wiki for warping needs to be updated to include the term "taper roll."

I think a good follow up question might be...

How much can a shaft warp before it becomes a problem with actual play?
CURIOUS FOR ANSWERS
 
A lot of people are very picky about this but I don't mind if I see a small "credit card" sized bit of light under the shaft where the pro taper ends and the shaft taper begins. As long as the tip doesn't wobble and the shaft isn't flopping around like a fish, I don't care and will shoot with it. Because most people don't agree with that, any cue I build (which is very few to date), I consider it unacceptable.
 
bbb said:
BRIANMOTDT ASKED THIS QUESTION
taper roll = warp

I don't know who coined that term but a warp is a warp. The Wiki for warping needs to be updated to include the term "taper roll."

I think a good follow up question might be...

How much can a shaft warp before it becomes a problem with actual play?
CURIOUS FOR ANSWERS
Click to expand...

No the Wiki does not need an update on those terms. Yes a warp is a warp but a taper roll is like a flat spot on the taper, uneven sanding etc.

The problem is sellers grew fond of the term. So rather than say warped (which does not favor the seller) they call it taper roll.

I"d say even if its out .125 1/8" it would not effect play. However at that far out its not acceptable to me. Really play is not the problem, its the shaft has moved a lot. That makes me think the shaft was not well seasoned or was abused - ( left in heat and/or humidity. I don't think putting a number on when it effects play is the problem. The problem is at what point, as in warped, is acceptable. For me if its near .020 I'd have to pass. For others or cue makers that may be fine. Best to know what the seller thinks is acceptable as well.

Rod
 
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wood moves

Dont know how you can stop it from moving.
http://www.woodbin.com/ref/wood/shrink_table.htm

If the shaft has 0.020 warp that is 0.010 each side = 6.5 human hairs staked one on top of another..... one dollar bill is 0.0035
3 one dollar bills would = 0.021 warpage . Your drivers lic is 0.030= 0.060 warpage
etc etc etc

Some of these numbers may not make sense to some of you.

a example is if you trimmed the side of your tip 5 thousands all the way around it ,
it would be 10 thousands smaller

Everyone has there own idea what they consider warped.

Going from a dry hot desert too the tropical jungle the wood is going to swell. can not be stopped.
I would not junk a shafts over 6.5 hairs worth of out of round. because the next day it could be more or less.
It is not that hard to straighten a solid maple shaft .

I hope the info helps .
MMike
 
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warpage is never OK imho. taper roll is different. my playing shaft has a pro taper and a little taper roll, i don't know how it occured but it has not effected my play in any way whatsoever.

i find taper roll very common with shafts that has a pro taper. i guess it is when people use sand paper or scotch brite to clean the blue, they get this.
 
Taper roll is not a warp. You can prove it many different ways. The easiest way is just think of a perfect cyclinder. Now, sand a little off one side. When you roll it now, you will see a little daylight as it hits that one spot. Is it still straight? Definitely. Do you see light? Sure. Some say that if you see a variance in the amount of light you can see under that shaft then it is warped. If you had the instrumentation to do the testing, you could prove that there is not a single shaft on the planet that was made by man that is straight. No matter who made, I guarantee that it isnt perfectly round all the way up and down the shaft. But I know there will be some that want to say they have a perfect shaft. But what they have is a shaft that is very close to perfect. Just my .02.
 
It can be a couple of things...it can be sanding out of round (probably the rarest IMHO), it can be movement (warpage, the most commoon) and it can be settling/compression (a lot of shafts do this, especially with lower ring counts/less dense maple. That's where the first 6 inches or so at the joint area compresses a little and the shaft needs refacing to get it back in line with the butt when put together. Some makers have said (Ronnie Powell is one, although some think he's a little nuts :wink:) that ALL shafts need a least one refacing after the first few hundred hours of play to zero them back out after this initial "seasoning". I've got one shaft that after a couple of months developed several tiny circular lines/cracks in the finish at the joint and up about 6 inches. And, sure enough, that shaft wobbles a little when rolled on a rail...although it barely shows any movement in a lathe. I think it's a compression issue that would be repaired with refacing, we'll soon see.

I don't pay much attention to the changes in light under the shaft being rolled on a flat surface...put the cue together, put the butt on the table and roll the cue along the rail with the joint, shaft and tip above the rail. Watch the tip. Any wiggle and that's either facing or warpage, NOT taper roll (which is uneven, non-uniform roundness of the surface of the sides of the shaft). Another good way to tell warpage is put the shaft in a lathe and watch for fuzziness along part of the length...that's the section that's not perfectly straight. There are about 10 cues on AZB getting flipped back and forth that report "taper roll"...nobody will call it warpage. They get sold about every two months, no one will hang onto them. To be fair, most sellers are honestly pointing out very minute movement in the shafts so that there's not misunderstanding, and it's so small than you wouldn't even notice it.

Who really cares, anyway? Shafts are expendable. So long as the butt stays straight, a perfectly straight, new shaft is just a phone call/online purchase away. I've bought two shafts online and ironically, they both fit perfectly and are laser straight together and apart with the butt...funny how the shaft makers don't seem to have a problem delivering a straight shaft...

As far as I'm concerned, if the cue rolls with no lift in the joint or tip, then it's basically straight for shooting--you won't be able to tell the difference. If there's lift, then I definitely notice it when shooting and can feel a difference when rotating the cue in my hands while doing measuring strokes down on a shot. And I don't like that one bit.:frown:
 
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A warp is a warp.

A bent shaft is a bent shaft.

Taper has nothing to do with anything other than it allows the tip and the joint to both keep contact with the cloth when a shaft is warped.

How much is acceptable is only personal preference however most will never effect performance, only resale and perceived value.
 
subdude1974 said:
Taper roll is not a warp. You can prove it many different ways. The easiest way is just think of a perfect cyclinder. Now, sand a little off one side. When you roll it now, you will see a little daylight as it hits that one spot. Is it still straight? Definitely. Do you see light? Sure. Some say that if you see a variance in the amount of light you can see under that shaft then it is warped. If you had the instrumentation to do the testing, you could prove that there is not a single shaft on the planet that was made by man that is straight. No matter who made, I guarantee that it isnt perfectly round all the way up and down the shaft. But I know there will be some that want to say they have a perfect shaft. But what they have is a shaft that is very close to perfect. Just my .02.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you. If the tip stays down all the way around. it's go to go I mean keep. If the tip raises even a little at any point, I might shoot with, but sure do not want to buy it.
 
I always chuck the shaft up in my lathe and hand turn it a couple of revolutions. If the tip doesn't wobble, the shaft is straight. Doesn't mean you won't see daylight when you roll the shaft on a flat surface.

I suspect some taper roll occurs when a cue repairman chucks up the shaft slightly off center in a lathe and sands it. I always make sure the shaft is turning as true as possible before I do any work. Same with replacing a tip or ferrule. I chuck it up and use my dial micrometer to confirm it's chucked up properly. :cool:
 
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