Tapered reamer for coring?

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll defer to the guys with more cue experience whether taper is advisable or not. Still reading and learning on that score.
Have yet to even core one straight, though most of the equipment & drills are on hand for when mood and round to-its coincide.

AFA glues, I like titebond a lot, too.
But i avoid using it in any critical assembly where the glue can be involved in a large proportion of the area.
This is because it puts a lot of moisture into the assembly that can take a long time to be removed (postpone machining ops for days or even weeks on critical parts) & it puts enough in to actually swell parts that may tend to dry into a slightly different shape (warp). Even to put the glue into a complex assembly requires excess (of titebond) or it will dry in spots before the parts are fully assembled. Slop it in, slather around quickly , assemble and squeeze out the excess before the parts seize up. However a lot of the reason that works is because the joint absorbed excess water from excess glue. WEST does not require an excess, and puts absolutely no moisture into a joint. So (in my case) even thick, wide laminations with multiple thin layers don't distort much and can be machined within a couple days or so. Even overnight for non-critical assemblies.

What is a tapered boring bar?

If a routine op is a specific deep taper. grinding a tapered bar to accommodate can be a way to get less deflection for length, compared to the smaller diameter straight bar necessary to fit all the way to the small diameter of the bore. If the taper is exceptionally shallow, it might or might not be worth the effort; though very small increases in diameter make large improvements in stiffness. In sets of bars for an off-set boring head, it is not uncommon for some to be tapered. In that case part of the reason is that the deflection is nearly the same as a straight bar with the same base diameter, but inertia is lower, for less imbalance as the offset is increased.

smt
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Someone sent me one of these type of bits to try out. They only asked I report my results. So far I have only tried it a little. I found it created too much vibration on a hundred pound lathe. It worked better on a 1000 pound plus lathe. But my fear of it working like a splitting maul proved true on smaller diameter maple as it cracked. So it seems you need to barely turn your 1.5 inch square wood into a dowel before coring. It did create more heat than I would be comfortable running through ebony or snakewood just to name a couple. Maybe a different speed might be a little cooler. I think I used 480 rpms.. Like I said I have not experimented much and in time I might fall in love with this bit, but we are off to a rough start so no marriage proposals to this bit are likely coming soon.
 
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JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
It probably needs a collet closer metal lathe . Or a tool room lathe with a heavy turret .
 

JC

Coos Cues
Someone sent me one of these type of bits to try out. They only asked I report my results. So far I have only tried it a little. I found it created too much vibration on a hundred pound lathe. It worked better on a 1000 pound plus lathe. But my fear of it working like a splitting maul proved true on smaller diameter maple as it cracked. So it seems you need to barely turn your 1.5 inch square wood into a dowel before coring. It did create more heat than I would be comfortable running through ebony or snakewood just to name a couple. Maybe a different speed might be a little cooler. I think I used 480 rpms.. Like I said I have not experimented much and in time I might fall in love with this bit, but we are off to a rough start so no marriage proposals to this bit are likely coming soon.
Maple is one of the tougher woods to core ream. Try it on ebony or cocobolo. It may cut significantly easier and create less heat than you think.

Is the tool one from my batch with the mild taper so it doesn't take out much wood?
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Maple is one of the tougher woods to core ream. Try it on ebony or cocobolo. It may cut significantly easier and create less heat than you think.

Is the tool one from my batch with the mild taper so it doesn't take out much wood?
I am not sure if it is one of yours or not.
 

WilleeCue

The Barefoot Cuemaker
Silver Member
I guess my question about all this is ... will a tapered core cue really matter to the player?
Given a standard cored cue and an a tapered core cue will the player feel anything different.
That is a lot of money and effort for what real final result?
Its just my opinion ... but I doubt any player could feel the difference ... they sure could not see it!

Sometimes I will do something different just for the sake of doing something different.
Always trying new things with the hope it makes your product a bit better is a good thing.
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I guess my question about all this is ... will a tapered core cue really matter to the player?
Given a standard cored cue and an a tapered core cue will the player feel anything different.
That is a lot of money and effort for what real final result?
Its just my opinion ... but I doubt any player could feel the difference ... they sure could not see it!

Sometimes I will do something different just for the sake of doing something different.
Always trying new things with the hope it makes your product a bit better is a good thing.
The reason for the tapered core is to allow people to glue the core in with epoxy easily instead of having to use gorilla glue with loose fitting straight core.
 

WilleeCue

The Barefoot Cuemaker
Silver Member
The reason for the tapered core is to allow people to glue the core in with epoxy easily instead of having to use gorilla glue with loose fitting straight core.
Chris, I have built perhaps 10 cored forearms so I am no expert by any means ... however ... I have had no problems (that I am aware of) using Tightbond glue or epoxy to glue in the core. it is very messy but the efort to get glue all up and down the core is critical.
Never used the foaming glue for that as I did not think it would be good for sound and feel.

I do see how the tapered core could make the gluing process easier and more reliable but I am not sure it is time and cost effective for me.
There is a point where time and money is an object ... if you know what I mean.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Chris, I have built perhaps 10 cored forearms so I am no expert by any means ... however ... I have had no problems (that I am aware of) using Tightbond glue or epoxy to glue in the core. it is very messy but the efort to get glue all up and down the core is critical.
Never used the foaming glue for that as I did not think it would be good for sound and feel.

I do see how the tapered core could make the gluing process easier and more reliable but I am not sure it is time and cost effective for me.
There is a point where time and money is an object ... if you know what I mean.
That's why us hobbyists with lucrative day jobs do the experimenting for you.

Here is my latest thoughts on the tapered core. All adhesives have a recommended thickness for optimal bond strength. With the tapered core you could completely control the adhesive thickness. If you have .014" taper per inch for instance then the spot where you slide them together and they are stuck is basically zero clearance. When you add your chosen adhesive you calculate how far short of that dry stuck spot to push them together and you can use math to match the thickness of the adhesive to your chosen adhesive's recommended application. To my knowledge zero clearance is no good no matter what you use.

During my experimenting with tapering cores I found even with the thinnest epoxy in the joint you were never able to push the two pieces together as deeply as they would slide together dry, indicating glue was in fact taking up space in there.

So the question is whether this tighter, better bond is worth the effort? Will the player notice? My conclusion is yes. It's worth the effort. All of your feedback comes to your grip hand through the core to the handle. Can't quantify how much better it is than poly glue but it is better there is no denying. Will I ever convince everyone of this? Not really concerned about that but I'm a believer that no matter the increment of improvement it's real and it's there.

I have however abandoned the tapered reamer once I decided all of my cored cues would be full core. I could have tapered the handle section first and then the forearm but this would be tricky to say the least. So I then had to come up with a way to get my desired adhesive into the optimum clearance for the adhesive's best bond. How do you glue a handle or forearm over a core that is only .002" smaller without dry spots? Once I solved this problem I felt my glue bond was equal to my tapered bond as the adhesive thickness was the same. No gorilla glue for me thank you very much.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I guess my question about all this is ... will a tapered core cue really matter to the player?
Given a standard cored cue and an a tapered core cue will the player feel anything different.
That is a lot of money and effort for what real final result?
Its just my opinion ... but I doubt any player could feel the difference ... they sure could not see it!

Sometimes I will do something different just for the sake of doing something different.
Always trying new things with the hope it makes your product a bit better is a good thing.
Heck no.
A taper core only has a slight taper .
I can make a hole .750" the first 5 inches then .825" the bottom 6.5 inches .
Someone can argue his .600 to .650" top tapering up to some .750" bottom hits better but he won't convince me .
It still boils down to woods used .
I can cut off the first inch of the maple dowel and thread join a purpleheart and it will hit harder than any tapered maple .

As far as epoxy vs poly glue, do some mock-ups and decide for yourself . Imo, no amount of epoxy is going to fix the wicking and inconsistency of some woods .
Adhesion strength is overrated when it comes to core glue . Where is the dowel going ?????
The top is going to get a threaded collar on mine and the bottom is getting threaded down to the handle.
How is the sleeve going to move ??? Where ???
What you don't want are gaps or dry spot .

Just like most things, it's how well it's made not how it's made.
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Heck no.
A taper core only has a slight taper .
I can make a hole .750" the first 5 inches then .825" the bottom 6.5 inches .
Someone can argue his .600 to .650" top tapering up to some .750" bottom hits better but he won't convince me .
It still boils down to woods used .
I can cut off the first inch of the maple dowel and thread join a purpleheart and it will hit harder than any tapered maple .

As far as epoxy vs poly glue, do some mock-ups and decide for yourself . Imo, no amount of epoxy is going to fix the wicking and inconsistency of some woods .
Adhesion strength is overrated when it comes to core glue . Where is the dowel going ?????
The top is going to get a threaded collar on mine and the bottom is getting threaded down to the handle.
How is the sleeve going to move ??? Where ???
What you don't want are gaps or dry spot .

Just like most things, it's how well it's made not how it's made.
My thoughts were that poly glue is strong enough especially with rings glued woth epoxy on each end. I have not seen one come loose in twenty years so far. So how long will poly glue last? Who knows that test is still on going. Maybe our great grand kids will figure that out.
 

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
I have not, but It sounds like a good canidate to be used with a tapered core.
I do not use a tapered core, that being said, I tried it on my last core, and I like it. The squeeze out, once cured, looks like epoxy. It does set sooner, which I feel reduces the chance of it sucking into the wood as fast, which could create a starved joint. It does have a thicker viscosity, so I heated the bottle for a few seconds in the micro to get a hair above room temp and it all went together very well and smooth.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How many have tried the white/clear, NON-foaming gorilla glue?
Are you talking about their wood glue? In that case I think Titebond III is the better choice, that stuff is incredibly strong. I use it for other wood projects. As for PU glues Titebonds PU glue seems to be a stronger PU glue than Gorilla.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Are you talking about their wood glue? In that case I think Titebond III is the better choice, that stuff is incredibly strong. I use it for other wood projects. As for PU glues Titebonds PU glue seems to be a stronger PU glue than Gorilla.
They have a white poly glue that does not expand .
Not good for coring .
 
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