" Tapper Roll"
- Thread starter Big_mike
- Start date
To me it is a warp that does not exceed the taper. Simple.
I have never seen anybody imply that a taper roll is not a warp. But of course, maybe somebody has.
The term is an estimate of the degree of the problem IMHO.
Of course, being a vague term others will use it or interpret it differently than me.
I have never seen anybody imply that a taper roll is not a warp. But of course, maybe somebody has.
The term is an estimate of the degree of the problem IMHO.
Of course, being a vague term others will use it or interpret it differently than me.
Any cue I buy (hands on)...I prefer to look down the cue like a rifle barrel.
That tells you everything you need to know.
Most carom and snooker cues have a 'taper' roll because of their shape.
I had a friend in the 80's who used to fiddle with his cues with a file and
a piece of sandpaper. He was filing the joint of his snooker cue 'cause
the joint was a soft material and subject to wear....he made it straight
by eye and then rolled it...it was off...he fiddled with it some more and
it rolled crooked again.....he said "I swear I got it straight, the TABLE must
be crooked.....we all laughed at him.
He rolled it on another table and the cue rolled straight.
We stopped laughing at him.
He is now a fine cue maker.
Taper Roll = Shaft is concentric and straight but has taper irregularities usually caused when sanding. Like areas sanded off in irregular patches creating an oval or flat shape to a part of the shaft. There is an irregular show of light under the shaft when rolled on a table but they will sight straight when looking down the shaft and manually turning it. These shafts are pretty much all playable.
Warp= Shaft is not straight and will have a slight to extreme bow or bend or two in it but some may still be playable depending on severity. The shaft bumps up and down or has the tip come up when rolled on a table or in a lathe and will not sight straight.
I think this would clear up what people should be saying when using these terms. It's just sad that there isn't a universal use of the terms like this.
just my 2cents.
Kevin
Warp= Shaft is not straight and will have a slight to extreme bow or bend or two in it but some may still be playable depending on severity. The shaft bumps up and down or has the tip come up when rolled on a table or in a lathe and will not sight straight.
I think this would clear up what people should be saying when using these terms. It's just sad that there isn't a universal use of the terms like this.
just my 2cents.
Kevin
Really?
Hmmmmmm......
I think that's extreme. It may or may not be so.
But if that's how you like it, then that's for you.....you cannot dictate that to somebody else.
Now, if there is a consensus on the definition it might be different....but at the moment there is not.
.
Any cue I buy (hands on)...I prefer to look down the cue like a rifle barrel.
That tells you everything you need to know.
Most carom and snooker cues have a 'taper' roll because of their shape.
I had a friend in the 80's who used to fiddle with his cues with a file and
a piece of sandpaper. He was filing the joint of his snooker cue 'cause
the joint was a soft material and subject to wear....he made it straight
by eye and then rolled it...it was off...he fiddled with it some more and
it rolled crooked again.....he said "I swear I got it straight, the TABLE must
be crooked.....we all laughed at him.
He rolled it on another table and the cue rolled straight.
We stopped laughing at him.
He is now a fine cue maker.
This made my day :thumbup:, and I wouldn't want any taper roll on my shafts. I know it probably doesn't affect playability that much but it still sounds a little defective to me, and if I'm paying a good chunk of change for one, it better roll dead on.
Jake
yes.. ok saying f#$%ed up is a little harsh i guess. but ppl talk about tapper roll beatting around what the real problem is .. it means something is wrong weather its out of round or what ever..
...Yeah..sort of, for some but I think that's something I'd say for an actually warped shaft. On shafts I've had that you would say had a taper roll, most people wouldn't be able to tell by playing with them, that there was any imperfection but rolling them you would see the light showing change under the shaft without it bobbing up and down. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a cue I was interested in if I saw there was a taper roll as it doesn't really affect anything unless the taper transitions just didn't feel smooth to me and that would take a pretty large change in the taper. Most cues have a taper imperfection but if it's very noticeable when rolled then I would apply the taper roll term to it. A warped shaft unless only very very slightly bent especially in the stroke area will require adjustments to prevent adding extra english or hitting the cue ball in the wrong place. These shafts I try not to buy but it's hard to tell what wood will do. I've bought shafts that morphed from warped to straight or the other way around and back again depending on the environment I was in with them. The cue makers on here tend to say wood can be unpredictable but can be made more predictable when dried properly. They sure have a tough job in getting things just right with such an unpredictable medium.
Kevin
Any cue I buy (hands on)...I prefer to look down the cue like a rifle barrel.
That tells you everything you need to know.
Most carom and snooker cues have a 'taper' roll because of their shape.
I had a friend in the 80's who used to fiddle with his cues with a file and
a piece of sandpaper. He was filing the joint of his snooker cue 'cause
the joint was a soft material and subject to wear....he made it straight
by eye and then rolled it...it was off...he fiddled with it some more and
it rolled crooked again.....he said "I swear I got it straight, the TABLE must
be crooked.....we all laughed at him.
He rolled it on another table and the cue rolled straight.
We stopped laughing at him.
He is now a fine cue maker.
That's awesome! Loving that story.
Although some people might use the term to minimize or mislead, I think the term is used to imply that although there is a defect of some sort, it is minor.
At least that's what I think they generally mean.
To be honest I really don't care how good your eyes are, sighting a shaft and rolling a shaft are extremely imperfect measures. You need a lathe and a dial indicator.
The same people who get fussy at the term might be surprised if their shafts were turned under a dial indicator. They may not be as straight as they thought.
acceptable tolerances?
There is no such thing as a perfectly straight shaft.... It is all a matter to what tolerance you are expecting when you say straight.
A slight taper roll is generally acceptable but is worth mentioning when selling something so that you are describing the cue accurately.
If the tip and joint does not leave the table when you roll it on a flat surface but you see a little variation in the gap in the taper that would be what they are describing when they say taper roll.
If you want your cue to be perfectly straight with no taper roll than you might never find a cue that meets your expectations. Wood is not a stable material and tends to warp and move due to environmental conditions. Even if it is "near" perfect when it leaves the shop in time it can change.
Dudley
(doesn't mind taper roll in my shafts... has never had one without it)
There is no such thing as a perfectly straight shaft.... It is all a matter to what tolerance you are expecting when you say straight.
A slight taper roll is generally acceptable but is worth mentioning when selling something so that you are describing the cue accurately.
If the tip and joint does not leave the table when you roll it on a flat surface but you see a little variation in the gap in the taper that would be what they are describing when they say taper roll.
If you want your cue to be perfectly straight with no taper roll than you might never find a cue that meets your expectations. Wood is not a stable material and tends to warp and move due to environmental conditions. Even if it is "near" perfect when it leaves the shop in time it can change.
Dudley
(doesn't mind taper roll in my shafts... has never had one without it)
Mike...next time you check for a 'TAPER' roll.....
..stop rolling it over a 'tip TAPPER'...:smile:
pt..<..likes exactness in shafts and spelling
This is very true, and I know that shafts are almost impossible to get completely perfect, and what I meant in my other comment which I should've made clearer is I want it as close as possible to perfect, and most the time you can't even notice the "taper roll" because its so minor. I guess its always gonna be there.
Jake
Mike...next time you check for a 'TAPER' roll.....
..stop rolling it over a 'tip TAPPER'...:smile:
pt..<..likes exactness in shafts and spelling
oh sorry mr.
.. TAPER make you feel better????
Jake,
I think I know what you meant what you said dead on. I think most people don't notice the variations if a shaft is close.
It is really obvious if the tip jumps around when rolled on a table. Taper roll is what happens in the gap- and there are different levels of this variation. What is acceptable to some might not be to others.
Making a shaft is not like machining a piece of steel or aluminum it WILL change and grow/shrink/warp. Allot of materials do this after being cut. I work as a machinist and have made a part and measured it the day it was made and it was dead on, then came back tomorrow and it had grown by a few thousandths. (this was in Delrin)
I can only imagine what wood does after cutting.
I think if someone describes the cue as having a taper roll and the tip leaves the surface when rolled they are being dishonest.
Dudley
If the roll is going to effect you mentally while your playing then forget it.
For resale it might pose a problem.For me if the last 6 or 7 inches are straight and doesn't interfere in my stroke zone,I'm okay with with it,but any roll that is in that zone should be firewood or a break shaft.
For resale it might pose a problem.For me if the last 6 or 7 inches are straight and doesn't interfere in my stroke zone,I'm okay with with it,but any roll that is in that zone should be firewood or a break shaft.
Obviously it's different for everybody. But as a standard if it will affect your play, the shaft is not for you.
Personally, I need several shafts. I have several classic cues missing shafts. If somebody has one with a taper roll that they can't tolerate, send it to me. I'll see if I can use it.
Shame to burn good maple. You never know, it might be turned to a smaller diameter or shortened for a masse shaft..
Some of the best playing cues i've ever played with had some roll to them.
Some had some taper roll, some had some butt roll, and some even had both. Did not effect their playability, at all. I've also played with many perfectly, or close to it cues, that played like garbage. I think some put too much emphasis on a cue having to be perfectly straight, when they should be putting the emphasis on the cues playability. If it plays perfect, who cares if it has some roll to it? If rolling it, and seeing rollout bothers you, quit rolling it:thumbup:
Some had some taper roll, some had some butt roll, and some even had both. Did not effect their playability, at all. I've also played with many perfectly, or close to it cues, that played like garbage. I think some put too much emphasis on a cue having to be perfectly straight, when they should be putting the emphasis on the cues playability. If it plays perfect, who cares if it has some roll to it? If rolling it, and seeing rollout bothers you, quit rolling it:thumbup:
You guys got me thinking (bad idea). My twenty year old Schon has a taper roll. Had it as long as I can remember. The butt is absolutely straight. Both Evan Clarke and Scott at Proficient are sure of that. The shaft rolls perfectly straight? The pin is absolutely straight. The joint faces are as flat as a straight edge can show. Yet, when put together, there is a very, very slight roll to the combined cue.
The shaft does not have a "pro" taper as defined today. The cylindrical area of the shaft is only ten inches from the ferrule to the beginning of the taper. Believe the current "pro" taper is fifteen inches from ferrule to taper. Really wanted to know why they call the "flat" area of the shaft a taper (cone) when it is really a cylinder. Could be wrong though. Not an expert.
With some of my other Schon shafts (8 total) there is NO wobble. See, you got me thinking. Now an enquiring mind wants to know. Damn you guys
.
Lyn
The shaft does not have a "pro" taper as defined today. The cylindrical area of the shaft is only ten inches from the ferrule to the beginning of the taper. Believe the current "pro" taper is fifteen inches from ferrule to taper. Really wanted to know why they call the "flat" area of the shaft a taper (cone) when it is really a cylinder. Could be wrong though. Not an expert.
With some of my other Schon shafts (8 total) there is NO wobble. See, you got me thinking. Now an enquiring mind wants to know. Damn you guys
.Lyn
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