Tappering attachment for metal lathes. Here's a pic of one.
- Thread starter Newton
- Start date
Showing the shaft taper adjusting bolts....every 2" O.C. and the indexed holes on the cross-slide. Note the aluminum angle for touching off the dial indicator. I use that for dialing in the amount of taper at a given point when adjusting the bars.
Thanks for the pointer on posting pics, Joey.
Regards,
Frank
Thanks for the pointer on posting pics, Joey.
Regards,
Frank
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Thank's Frank for sharing you're experience and pictures.
It's always nice to see some one else's version of these setups
Looking at you're Jet, you must have a lot of cleaning of the lead screw since it's open? Or du you cover some of this up?
I got a comment from one of the metal lathe retailers that he was concerned that the dust might "dirt-down" all the cogwheels under the carriage doing wood. Is it enough just to use pressured air?
Was just curious since it looked very clean and nice on the pics
K
It's always nice to see some one else's version of these setups
Looking at you're Jet, you must have a lot of cleaning of the lead screw since it's open? Or du you cover some of this up?
I got a comment from one of the metal lathe retailers that he was concerned that the dust might "dirt-down" all the cogwheels under the carriage doing wood. Is it enough just to use pressured air?
Was just curious since it looked very clean and nice on the pics
K
KJ Cues said:
Thank you for the feedback KJ. Chris H have showed me these setups and also described them in his book which was helpful as well.
I think I most likely would use the lathe for the finishing passes on the butt section wrt tappering. Shaft would always be from Royce so I think tapering of these is something I might do on my CNC (finishing passes after joint install).
So now I'm overly eager to get my lathe. If only that resellers could get back to me with the final feedback
Thank's
Kent
Newton said:Thank's Frank for sharing you're experience and pictures.
It's always nice to see some one else's version of these setups
Looking at you're Jet, you must have a lot of cleaning of the lead screw since it's open? Or du you cover some of this up?
I got a comment from one of the metal lathe retailers that he was concerned that the dust might "dirt-down" all the cogwheels under the carriage doing wood. Is it enough just to use pressured air?
Was just curious since it looked very clean and nice on the pics
K
I have the same lathe model as Frank, except I have the belt drive. Are you talking about the longitudinal lead screw? If so, it doesn't take much to run a vacuum over it and wipe it down to remove wood debris, and it is tucked up underneath the way anyway. Also, I use the feed rod instead of the lead screw when turning.
As for the warning you received from the retailer, it is mostly without merit IMO. A good friend of mine tapers butts on his lathe like me without any dust collection and to my knowledge it has not caused an issue. He told me once he has had several inches of dust everywhere when roughing in a lot of large diameter stock in one session. The weight of the carriage and the sweepers generally keep the critical moving parts free of debris, provided you do a clean up after each heavy session.
There are a few spots that do collect wood debris on my lathe, one being the area where the half nut engages when using the lead screw, but it has not caused an issue and I fish out the majority of the chips now and then.
Aside from all of that, I have dust collection set up for my shaft and butt tapering. After taking a pass on 50 shaft blanks I can nearly eat off the cross slide. I think a larger risk of turning down wood using the metal lathes is the life of the cheap import motors they come with. Dust collection keeping a lot of the fine dust from getting inside the motor might extend the life of the motor. So, if you are concerned about the dust under the carriage, think about the dust in your lungs as well and consider dust collection.
To Frank:
Nice setup...same basic principles as mine (as they all generally are).
Kelly
Kelly_Guy said:
Thank's Kelly.
I'm VERY concerned about my lungs and I'm in fact allergic to a lot of things - dust included (normal house "dust") so I have invested in some dust removal setup as well.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=108361
and I'm evaluating on of these :
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=109585
So I would design a dust extracting setup also for my lathe.
I have up to now been using a lathe at work which is fairly often oiled, both bed ways, cross slide and the likes. I guess you keep you're with a minimum of lubrication then ?
Here is a example of the lead screw cover I might get
Kent
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Jr's Farm said:Showing the spring loaded cross-slide.........You might have to loosen the gibs slightly for free movement.
One thing I'm not fond of is having the compound slide perpendicular....I'm always pinching my knuckles on the cross-slide dial. Oh well.
I have yet to put a bar of this type on my big lathe. I am imagining that this operates much like Hightowers slide?
Meaning...
1) The nut is removed under the cross-slide, and you tighten the gib to lock it in place when machining tenons and such.
2) Then you losen it to allow it to slide when tapering.
3) The top slide (compound) is the only slide used for "dialing" things in?
Please concur if you would...
(NICE SET-UP!!!!)-Chris
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Another solution for chips and dust on the leadscrew.
Has anyone tried this over the bed it self?
Any thing worth considering?
I guess the disadvantage might be that you need to pull these covers to the side to do some clean up every now and then, but in general this should prevent the big exposure of fine dust..
Just an idea..
K
Has anyone tried this over the bed it self?
Any thing worth considering?
I guess the disadvantage might be that you need to pull these covers to the side to do some clean up every now and then, but in general this should prevent the big exposure of fine dust..
Just an idea..
K
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Newton said:
I had not seen the lead screw covers like that before. I don't think it necessary for cue work, but I guess it can't hurt.
The balance of keeping the lathe lubed up but keeping excess oil from getting everywhere including on your wood all depends on how often and how you use your the machine. My recommendation is follow strictly what your manual says for a while, and then cut back what is obviously overkill for your particular machine/use. I will say don't ignore the bushings the feed rod and lead screw turn in at the very tail end of the lathe in that housing that attaches to the frame. If that dries up and you happen to be turning the lathe fast it could weld together...I know.
Any time I know I am not going to be using the feeds (drilling, sanding/polishing/manual machining), I try and remember to disengage the spindle from the gear box that drives the feed rod/lead screw to save a little wear and tear.
For the dust collection at the cutting source for turning on my lathe, I use a Hawaiian punch jug. I cut out access holes for the stock, router, router mount, 4" flex hose (tight compression fit with hose pushed just inside the jug) and for tightening the router collet. I admit I got lucky in that the jug is a perfect fit for the size of my router bracket. I have a different jug for butts and shafts as the size and positioning of the stock holes are different. It may sound a little goofy, but it works and works great, and is virtually free.
Kelly
Poulos Cues said:I have yet to put a bar of this type on my big lathe. I am imagining that this operates much like Hightowers slide?
Meaning...
1) The nut is removed under the cross-slide, and you tighten the gib to lock it in place when machining tenons and such.
2) Then you losen it to allow it to slide when tapering.
3) The top slide (compound) is the only slide used for "dialing" things in?
Please concur if you would...
-Chris
No. The brass nut underneath the cross slide remains. I only remove the bolt that attaches the cross slide to that nut when I want to taper. Here is what I do.
1. Remove nut from top of cross slide.
2. Loosen gib for free movmeent.
3. Move now fairly free sliding cross slide into correct position.
4. Attach bracket to cross slide that attaches follower to taper bar.
5. Attach springs to take out slop.
6. Use compound to dial in/out for whatever cut I want.
7. Make wood chips.
Basically reverse the order when going back to normal operation. After removing the springs and tapering bracket from cross slide, just dial in/out the lead screw while looking through the hole in the top of the cross slide until the brass nut lines up, secure with bolt, and then tighten the gib back up to desired setting.
Kelly_Guy said:
Right on Brotha! Makes total sense. (as I am sitting here with my dunce cap on!)
REALLY NICE set up in the pic's.
What about cutting points? I would assume you would be going in the opposite direction then tapering.
Would you put a bigger spring in between the back of the dial plate and the front of slide to push the carriage towards the bar? I would imagine you would need a lot more force to keep the bearing against the bar for cutting points...?
Or do yopu rely on the current spring set-up? (I notice 2 springs in the picture)??
-Chris
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Poulos Cues said:
Don't forget the pics are of Frank's setup.
My set up is a little different than the one pictured. I have 1" wide taper bars, and my follower is grooved, so it straddles the taper bars rather than a cam being pushed/pulled against the side of a bar. The springs in my setup are used only to take up a few thou slop (the difference between the width of the bar and the width of the slot in the follower). So for me at least, no additional tugging power would be needed for cutting points.
Kelly
Kelly_Guy said:
I understand. I have an extra ground rail and truck I could use for a tapering bar. (this would act like the straddling your are talking about?)
I have a few extra pieces of slotted aluminum channel to fabricate the mounting brackets with too.-
I wouldn't think there would be any need for springs using this ground rail and linear block- do you?
Or should I just in case there is any slop...?
-Chris
Poulos Cues said:
Sorry, I am not 100% sure what you are describing, so i guess I can't say. The cuemaker/friend who helped me (greatly) with my setup when I basically asked the same question told me "there is always a little slop". Depending on the tolerances, the little slop between my follower and the width of the bars helps keep it from binding when replacing.
Kelly
Kelly_Guy said:
Have you ever seen a ground linear rail? They are used in CNC applications.
They come with linear bearing block(s).
(If you look closely, you can see them in Lee's CNC machine pics.)
http://cgi.ebay.com/NBW-20TA-CNC-Li...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50
Catch my drift?
This would typically be an expensive solution to perform the tapering application but since I have a spare 44" rail and blocks....
Instead of having a bearing pushing/ pulling against the front or back edge of the bar via a spring, (ie most of the traditional types we cuemakers use) the linear bearing block rides on the ground rail... I would put the rail at an angle of course.
I think this will work.
-Chris
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Poulos Cues said:Have you ever seen a ground linear rail? They are used in CNC applications.
They come with linear bearing block(s).
(If you look closely, you can see them in Lee's CNC machine pics.)
http://cgi.ebay.com/NBW-20TA-CNC-Li...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50
Catch my drift?
This would typically be an expensive solution to perform the tapering application but since I have a spare 44" rail and blocks....
Instead of having a bearing pushing/ pulling against the bar via a spring,( ie most of the traditional types we cuemakers use) the linear bearing block rides on the ground rail... I would put the rail at an angle of course.
I think this will work.
-Chris
Yes, I see what you mean now. I see no reason why that wouldn't work well. One thing to keep in mind...mount the rail to a plate, and leave wiggle room when mounting the plate to the angle brackets. That way a small plate shift and a dial indicator can give you a new taper for when you want to switch from tapering butts to cutting points or whatever. I am sure you would have figured that out...
Kelly
Kelly
Kelly_Guy said:
I'm with ya bubby!
I designed a bar with a ground pin on one end which acts as a pivot point. The other end has a curved slot. I have an indicator on the face of the bar on the slot end.
I just loosen the (1) bolt on the slotted end, and I can push the bar away from me, or pull it towards me.
Only moving one end, and using the ground pin as a pivot on the other end, saves a TON of time when moving the bar around!
(I did this LONG before my first sight of a Proper Lathe)
Great discussion my friend,
-Chris
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Poulos Cues said:I'm with ya bubby!
I designed a bar with a ground pin on one end which acts as a pivot point. The other end has a curved slot. I have an indicator on the face of the bar on the slot end.
I just loosen the (1) bolt on the slotted end, and I can push the bar away from me, or pull it towards me.
Only moving one end, and using the ground pin as a pivot on the other end, saves a TON of time when moving the bar around!
(I did this LONG before my first sight of a Proper Lathe)
Great discussion my friend,
-Chris
That is a great idea!!
Kelly
When I drew this up I contemplated a slotted channel as opposed to the (1) sided version I came up with. While that may work for doing butts, I felt I wanted the adjustability of the (1) sided design for the shaft taper.
Trying to adjust a (2) sided slot for the compound shaft taper would be ridiculously difficult, and a CNC'd slot would leave you with only that shape.
My intention for future use is to make another mounting plate (shown upside down below) with a shorter, most likely slotted taper bar for doing points or other crazy straight tapers. Ideally I would like to maybe put (2) compound shaft tapers on one plate for standard tapers and J/B, and the butt/point tapers on another plate. Pretty simple to swap them out, just leave the way clamp mounts alone and setup would be pretty easy.
I suppose if someone had cheap access to a heavy CNC unit they could just make up a handfull of patterns and swap them out as necessary. Maybe down the road, but my next step is coming up with a good way to index the headstock. Anyone with pics of that on a full size metal lathe?
Regards,
Frank
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