Tearing into others cues

U

ugottha8

Junkie of the Poolhall
Silver Member
Ok, aspiring cuebuilder here, Ive only done one if you actually call it building a cue, I took a full splice ebony blank, added 3 rings (as part of the butt cap) and butt cap to it, put on a stainless collar and a Pechaeur pin ( I actually had 2 higher end pechaeur cues break below the joint in almost the exact same place and exact same angle) so i used the pin because I have 4 shafts that I couldnt use. Anyway, I am basically in the reading stage, am currently readng Hightowers book, and downloaded Dieckman's book. Willee and Mr. Webb have been a great help so far, but a few cuebuilders I have spoke to have mentioned taking apart other cuebuilders cues to get the just and basically see how things go together, get ideas, etc................. Im a bit confused by this, no way am I about to tear into my $1000 Stacey cue, even my Blud sneaky that I only paid $300 for, not tearing into that one either. I guess I could tear into the Meucci Original that I got on ebay as a mystery cue for next to nothing, but have already contacted Mike Stacey about repairing it. So all of you who have "torn" into other cuebuilders cues, did you eat the $$ & get into on of their higher end cues & the MAIN question....how do you get the cues apart, is there something you use to break the epoxy down, I know some are cored, and threaded and epoxyed...whats the best way to take a cue apart. I do have the 2 Pechaeur's that are broken, I guess I could start there!!! Any help with be greatly appreciated.

Signed: "I cant wait to get my CueSmith Delux & Taper Shaper in to get started, almost have all the $$$ saved up"
 
ugottha8 said:
Ok, aspiring cuebuilder here, Ive only done one if you actually call it building a cue, I took a full splice ebony blank, added 3 rings (as part of the butt cap) and butt cap to it, put on a stainless collar and a Pechaeur pin ( I actually had 2 higher end pechaeur cues break below the joint in almost the exact same place and exact same angle) so i used the pin because I have 4 shafts that I couldnt use. Anyway, I am basically in the reading stage, am currently readng Hightowers book, and downloaded Dieckman's book. Willee and Mr. Webb have been a great help so far, but a few cuebuilders I have spoke to have mentioned taking apart other cuebuilders cues to get the just and basically see how things go together, get ideas, etc................. Im a bit confused by this, no way am I about to tear into my $1000 Stacey cue, even my Blud sneaky that I only paid $300 for, not tearing into that one either. I guess I could tear into the Meucci Original that I got on ebay as a mystery cue for next to nothing, but have already contacted Mike Stacey about repairing it. So all of you who have "torn" into other cuebuilders cues, did you eat the $$ & get into on of their higher end cues & the MAIN question....how do you get the cues apart, is there something you use to break the epoxy down, I know some are cored, and threaded and epoxyed...whats the best way to take a cue apart. I do have the 2 Pechaeur's that are broken, I guess I could start there!!! Any help with be greatly appreciated.

Signed: "I cant wait to get my CueSmith Delux & Taper Shaper in to get started, almost have all the $$$ saved up"
Click to expand...

Talk to your local billiard establishment and ask them to save any broken cues for you. It doesn't matter if these are one or two piece, taking them apart will help you see what others are doing when they build a cue.
 
or just posted in the wanted section and look for beat up cues made by other cuemakers. since u're taking it apart anyways the cue can be warped, scratched, broken etc. i think u'll end up paying a lot less than if u were to buy a custom cue in decent condition and taking it apart. i see no point in doing that anyways so u might as well buy some beat up cues and experiment with those instead.
 
Although there are several variations on the theme, and many smaller tips and tricks to learn that will make your cue building life easier, I don't consider disection of other's work to be necessary. Between the videos available (Hightower and Barringer) Chris' book, and the info that can be learned here, you have all you need to get started, as well as a live support group to help along the way. Start building your seasoned wood supply while you focus on educating yourself with these many sources, then your lathe will arrive, and you'll be ready to dive in.

If you must destroy some cues as part of your education, I say use a band saw. Just be aware of the metal pin in the 'A' joint. :thumbup:

Enjoy the ride.
Mr H
 
I basically cut up a broken Meucci, Mcdermott & then bought 2 other Qs for $10 each at a pawn shop. I cut them on the band saw, right next to the joint screw ( I hate that word "pin") & on down to the butt end of the Q. I did this because 22 years ago, there was no video or book or anyone to help me learn how to go about putting a Q together. I used to go to the Mcdermott factory to buy Qs direct. Jim Mcdermott (the owner), gave me great advice here & there, that put me way ahead of where I was at the time. You will make a lot of mistakes & waste a lot of wood, before you come even close to making a Q. Hopefully you won't get hurt. Any time I can help, just e-mail me. One piece of advice I can give you. DON'T TRY TO BULL ---T these Qmakers. They will see throgh you & your free advice will dry up faster than Kool Aid in the desert. GOOD LUCK...JER
 
ratcues said:
Repair cues for a few years before you start building cues.
Click to expand...

I talked with the guy that lets me tinker on his lathe and helps me out and he agreed on the repairing thing, come to find out he has the other peice of one of the pechaeurs that I have so I will make an attempt to repair that. (Broke on a diagonal just below the joint...YIKES!!!!) I like the idea of repairing first for a while, I can definately see the benefit it can have toward my goal of one day being considered a cuebuilder. Thanks everyone for your imput
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
DON'T TRY TO BULL ---T these Qmakers. They will see throgh you & your free advice will dry up faster than Kool Aid in the desert. GOOD LUCK...JER
Click to expand...

Oh believe me, Im not here to bulls**t anyone, Like I was telling Mike Webb an you all may think im a little nuts for thinking this way but I look to you guys like most look to movie stars or other celebrities. Im actually honored to have these cuebuilders post on my threads and offer the advice, and a HUGE Thank You to Willee for the invitation to come down to his shop!! I have nothing but respect for what you guys do and am very thankful for all the advice to help me make that first step towards becoming a cuebuilder. Im just sorry that on my first thread about my stripped Blud shaft that it has turned into a heated debate about "pin" size, I just wanted my shaft fixed so I could play with the Blud again.
 
ratcues said:
Repair cues for a few years before you start building cues.
Click to expand...

I thought about this comment I made and, although true, it wasn't very helpful and didn't answer your question. I have cut apart many cues. Is there something in particular you wanted to see?

Basically, all "A" jointed cues are built the same. There is a forearm, a handle, and a joining screw. The difference comes in the combination used each cuemaker. Some have the tenon and screw going into the handle, some have it going into the forearm. Which way is better?....neither.

What size, depth, thread, pitch, wood, direction, etc..... are all things you need to develop by trial and error. It is the most effective way to learn. It is not always the easiest, cheapest, or the fastest, but it is the most effective. Build some cues with different techniques and play with them. Then, use that info to build a few more and play with them. repeat as needed.....
 
If you are set on making cues then make a cue YOU like to play with.
Try all your buddies cues at the pool hall and try to find what cues you like and what ones you dont like.
When you find a cue that plays the way you like then start looking as to how it is made.
Examine all the specs ... weight, tip diameter, ferrule material, type of joint, size of joint, the taper of the shaft and the butt.
Find out as much details as you can about the cue.
Call the cue maker and let him know what yo are doing.
See if he will tell you details on how it is constructed.

Then ... start making wood chips and see if you can make one that plays as good.
Tinker, refine, experiment, and sooner or later you will start understanding the mechanics of constructing a cue that you like.
Now you have your start because if you like the cue there will be others that will like it also.
However there will be others that dont like it just like there are cues YOU dont like.
Do Not try to please everyone ... please yourself.
 
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WilleeCue said:
If you are set on making cues then make a cue YOU like to play with.
Try all your buddies cues at the pool hall and try to find what cues you like and what ones you dont like.
When you find a cue that plays the way you like then start looking as to how it is made.
Examine all the specs ... weight, tip diameter, ferrule material, type of joint, size of joint, the taper of the shaft and the butt.
Find out as much details as you can about the cue.
Call the cue maker and let him know what yo are doing.
See if he will tell you details on how it is constructed.

Then ... start making wood chips and see if you can make one that plays as good.
Tinker, refine, experiment, and sooner or later you will start understanding the mechanics of constructing a cue that you like.
Now you have your start because if you like the cue there will be others that will like it also.
However there will be others that dont like it just like there are cues YOU dont like.
Do Not try to please everyone ... please yourself.
Click to expand...


As usual 'ol Willee makes sense. I did it that way, so I agree...JER
 
Well, I have my self started on this humble road for some time back, and I have not made anything looking like a cue, yet. As many has mentioned, doing repairs and get some hands on is a good idea which I have basically been doing now for a while. You get the experience but you need to be very awake at the same time since it's not you're own cue :)

For me the idea is to be able to experiment with different materials and see how this feels. If possible, may be find something new (materials) or possible other ways of doing things. I know, cues has been done for many years so that this would happen in practical terms is I guess just a dream I have. I have no big plans on selling cues, but if some one likes a cue I have made it would be a honor and a bonus for me.

I'm not sure if you're "quest" is the same as mine, but if you like to make you're own ultimate tool, do as mentioned, play with a lot and make notice on which you like and don't like and afterwards pay attention to the differences as Willee mention.

I have done so and did not break the cue down but did some X-rays of two cues to see the difference : http://www.kendocues.com/Websted/Pictures/Pictures.html

The balance between these two cues are very different and as you can see the spliced section of one of the forarms is joint by metal.

If you are really in to taking apart other's cues, you could read Chris chapter about Ferrule install and specially page 73. I think this might work for butts and other sections which is glued but I have not tried it in practical terms so no promises:scratchhead:

I have found great inspiration here on this forum with all the experience present and is for sure a "tool" by it self :smile:

Hope it helped

N
 
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ratcues said:
I thought about this comment I made and, although true, it wasn't very helpful and didn't answer your question. I have cut apart many cues. Is there something in particular you wanted to see?

Basically, all "A" jointed cues are built the same. There is a forearm, a handle, and a joining screw. The difference comes in the combination used each cuemaker. Some have the tenon and screw going into the handle, some have it going into the forearm. Which way is better?....neither.

What size, depth, thread, pitch, wood, direction, etc..... are all things you need to develop by trial and error. It is the most effective way to learn. It is not always the easiest, cheapest, or the fastest, but it is the most effective. Build some cues with different techniques and play with them. Then, use that info to build a few more and play with them. repeat as needed.....
Click to expand...


Why don't many cuemakers use full-splice blanks to make their cues? Is it cost? Or too difficult to make the cue look really nice? Too difficult to move the balance point?

Do you think the hit of an A-jointed cue can achieve equality with a good full-splice cue?

Thanks,

Flex
 
Flex said:
Why don't many cuemakers use full-splice blanks to make their cues? Is it cost? Or too difficult to make the cue look really nice? Too difficult to move the balance point?

Do you think the hit of an A-jointed cue can achieve equality with a good full-splice cue?

Thanks,

Flex
Click to expand...


Excellent question. I have been wondering the same thing and I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's opinion on this.
 
Flex said:
Why don't many cuemakers use full-splice blanks to make their cues? Is it cost? Or too difficult to make the cue look really nice? Too difficult to move the balance point?

Do you think the hit of an A-jointed cue can achieve equality with a good full-splice cue?

Thanks,

Flex
Click to expand...

**This refers to me only**

1. I have personally never made my own full splice blank. I have the capabilities just not the time to tinker with it....yet. I also do not like to use blanks made by someone else, in my cues. I've made some, but do not like to. Its pretty much twisting my arm.

2. I do not want someone to hit with a cue I built, with someone elses blank, and assume that is how all of my cues hit. I, for one, do like like the hit of the full splice cues I have made. I do not someone basing there decision to buy or not to buy one of my cue based on the hit/feel of a cue I didn't totally build.

3. At the end of the day, it is my signature on the cue.
 
Flex said:
Why don't many cuemakers use full-splice blanks to make their cues? Is it cost? Or too difficult to make the cue look really nice? Too difficult to move the balance point?

Do you think the hit of an A-jointed cue can achieve equality with a good full-splice cue?

Thanks,

Flex
Click to expand...

Absolutely - <insert standard "hit" disclaimer here - hit is SUBJECTIVE
yaada, yauda, yadda>

With all that said - I have made great - IMNSHO - hitting
fullsplice cues - but also, equally good half-spliced and plain jane cues.

There is no guarentee that a fullspliced blank - regardless of who
made it, will result in a better playing cue.

They do have lots of class - but they are no more magic than
any othe configuration.

Dale<ducking for cover>
 
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pdcue said:
Absolutely - <insert standard "hit" disclaimer here - hit is SUBJECTIVE
yaada, yauda, yadda>

With all that said - I have made great - IMNSHO - hitting
fullsplice cues - but also, equally good half-spliced and plain jane cues.

There is no guarentee that a fullspliced blank - regardless of who
made it, will result in a better playing cue.

They do have lots of class - but they are no more magic than
any othe configuration.

Dale<ducking for cover>
Click to expand...

No need to duck for cover. I think that is a very true statment.
 
pdcue said:
Absolutely - <insert standard "hit" disclaimer here - hit is SUBJECTIVE
yaada, yauda, yadda>

With all that said - I have made great - IMNSHO - hitting
fullsplice cues - but also, equally good half-spliced and plain jane cues.

There is no guarentee that a fullspliced blank - regardless of who
made it, will result in a better playing cue.

They do have lots of class - but they are no more magic than
any othe configuration.

Dale<ducking for cover>
Click to expand...

Wow, seems I actually struck a nerve somewhere! Not my intention, I assure you!

My question is not so much if a full-splice cue will actually play better, but if the vibration, what I call the "full-splice vibration" that comes up the shaft, upon striking the cue ball, on up through the forearm and into the handle and into my hand and into my brain... that wonderful resonance and feel that I'm describing is what I really like. Can a half-spliced cue, which seems to be the choice of a great many cuemakers, both custom and production, produce that "full-spliced feel" (I'm sure you know what I'm talking about)? Is the half-spliced cue not inherently more prone to problems than a full-splice? Even though I'm not a cuemaker, when I look at what a cuemaker has to go through when making a half splice cue, there are plenty of opportunities for things to go wrong, whether in the making and finishing of the butt, or perhaps a few months or years down the road.

Do full-splice cues ever develop a buzz in the butt, the way not a few half-splice cues sometimes do? I suppose they could crack, perhaps if they are abused, but lacking that do they tend to develop other problems? I've had a few half-spliced ones, some with no problem, but there's a very nice looking Meucci with a great stack leather wrap that I have that has an odd sound every once in a while, and it's a bit unnerving.

Thanks!

Flex
 
Flex said:
Wow, seems I actually struck a nerve somewhere! Not my intention, I assure you!

My question is not so much if a full-splice cue will actually play better, but if the vibration, what I call the "full-splice vibration" that comes up the shaft, upon striking the cue ball, on up through the forearm and into the handle and into my hand and into my brain... that wonderful resonance and feel that I'm describing is what I really like. Can a half-spliced cue, which seems to be the choice of a great many cuemakers, both custom and production, produce that "full-spliced feel" (I'm sure you know what I'm talking about)? Is the half-spliced cue not inherently more prone to problems than a full-splice? Even though I'm not a cuemaker, when I look at what a cuemaker has to go through when making a half splice cue, there are plenty of opportunities for things to go wrong, whether in the making and finishing of the butt, or perhaps a few months or years down the road.

Do full-splice cues ever develop a buzz in the butt, the way not a few half-splice cues sometimes do? I suppose they could crack, perhaps if they are abused, but lacking that do they tend to develop other problems? I've had a few half-spliced ones, some with no problem, but there's a very nice looking Meucci with a great stack leather wrap that I have that has an odd sound every once in a while, and it's a bit unnerving.

Thanks!

Flex
Click to expand...

I don't think you struck and nerve. I read Dale's comments for what they actually were. I think people buy a full splice cue and assume that it should automatically play better than a half splice. That is not the case.

I think the two construction techniques have pros and cons and it is up to the player to decide which is right for his/her needs. The idea that the vibration or feedback is better in full splice is determined by the player. I, personally, do like like it. Different strokes for different folks.
 
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