Tell me about TAP...

Just a quick message to flick...

Flick, you commented on how someone who has a 90% winning average does not go up... It is simple... if you don't shoot a 4 speed why should you go up to a 4??? In other words, if you are a 3 (for example) and you consistently play 2s and 3s and maybe even the odd 4 and are winning but you are still shooting like a 3 (enough trips to the table to warrent being a 3), why should that player move up. Unlike the APA, the win/lose component of the algorithm is not as big an overall statistic. TAP rewards players by moving them up, because of their OVERALL skill not just by a won/loss precentage.

Other reasons why I think TAP is better:

NO SLOP... you win with accuracy not by flukes
Table is open off the break... You should not be penalized for making a ball that cannot be predicted.
Calling Safeties or Defensives and sinking your own ball... great strategy play.
Better odds of making it to Nationals
Session ending money
Title holders money
Nationwide tourneys(sponsored by TAP) other than Nationals
Corporate site for stats that anyone can see.
LO cannot play favorites when it comes to stats and setting s/l

Yes, APA does do some good things, but it does not support the player the way that TAP does.

Thanks for listening....

Pete.
 
Note: in my example that 4 is playing plenty of strong players and still doesn't adjust up. There are numerous other examples just like it. That's the point. If someone is winning 90% of their matches, then I'd bet that in 90% of the cases, if they advanced to the next level, they'd still maintain a very reasonable win percentage, and as a result would encounter better and more challenging competition. Also remember, the lower your rating, the less games per match you get to play. This is also true for those winning very low percentages... Overall, it's not a very accurate reflection of an honest player's ability.

No slop - now that's a lie.... Try to be more accurate...
You also play with wierd rules where if it's an open table and you make a ball, but scratch. It's still open. Now that's a big crock...

You can try to argue rules all you want. As has been said, rules are rules, you just have to learn to play em. The pros play by rules much more similar to the other leagues. The pros learn to adjust to any set of rules for any variation of game they play. It's not what rules you play by, it's how well you're able to adjust and execute.

Here's another example... a player had been playing in the league for over a year as a skill level 6. At the beginning of the new season the player played a 3 in a very close battle, whereby the 3 had several clear chances to win (i.e. ball in hand with 1 ball and the 8). That player got bumped from a 6 to a 7, thus the highest rated player in that bar. Based on the TAP handicapping system, that player was one of the top 600 players in that league throughout the country. That player wasn't even the best player in that bar at the time, yet ranked higher than everyone else, even though others were clearly playing better during league play in that bar.

No need beating a dead horse. It's no big deal. As has been said, to each their own, and let everyone do what works for them.

Do you really get that upset, if the TAP system doesn't work for numerous players in their various situations? Does it really affect you that much?
 
FLICKit said:
Note: in my example that 4 is playing plenty of strong players and still doesn't adjust up. There are numerous other examples just like it. That's the point. If someone is winning 90% of their matches, then I'd bet that in 90% of the cases, if they advanced to the next level, they'd still maintain a very reasonable win percentage, and as a result would encounter better and more challenging competition. Also remember, the lower your rating, the less games per match you get to play. This is also true for those winning very low percentages... Overall, it's not a very accurate reflection of an honest player's ability.

No slop - now that's a lie.... Try to be more accurate...
You also play with wierd rules where if it's an open table and you make a ball, but scratch. It's still open. Now that's a big crock...

You can try to argue rules all you want. As has been said, rules are rules, you just have to learn to play em. The pros play by rules much more similar to the other leagues. The pros learn to adjust to any set of rules for any variation of game they play. It's not what rules you play by, it's how well you're able to adjust and execute.

Here's another example... a player had been playing in the league for over a year as a skill level 6. At the beginning of the new season the player played a 3 in a very close battle, whereby the 3 had several clear chances to win (i.e. ball in hand with 1 ball and the 8). That player got bumped from a 6 to a 7, thus the highest rated player in that bar. Based on the TAP handicapping system, that player was one of the top 600 players in that league throughout the country. That player wasn't even the best player in that bar at the time, yet ranked higher than everyone else, even though others were clearly playing better during league play in that bar.

No need beating a dead horse. It's no big deal. As has been said, to each their own, and let everyone do what works for them.

Do you really get that upset, if the TAP system doesn't work for numerous players in their various situations? Does it really affect you that much?
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Flick, you losing all kinds of credibility every time you reply.... First off even in the APA, if the table is open and you sink a ball and scratch, the table is still open... read your rules before calling it a crock!!!

Explain why "no slop is a lie".... does APA call shots other than the eight?? If you can sink a ball somewhere else then where you are aiming, then it is a fluke.You can't argue that!! The odd time you might get lucky and go off a ball near the desired pocket but at least you put it in the pocket you called.

Not once did you say that the player you were describing played higher or lower players, you only said they won 90% of their matches. No determination either way can be made from those statistics. Give me some real numbers to back up your accusations ( you won't be able to because you don't have the scoresheets, unless you have one amazing memory).

Why do you figure i am getting upset??? I have no need to get upset!! I know the system works. Why do you get upset, does it affect you that much that people think this is better system???

As for your 6 that went to a 7... show me his scoresheet or give me his numbers across the line. Also, if there were a number of other players in the bar that were better than him yet ranked below him, i would like to see their numbers to see if they were actually better or just thought they were better or they were possibly bagging, thus making the 7 look better.

So , when you talk about being accurate, try to practice what you preach or your posts will not carry a great deal of weight. I only believe the facts not the speculations.

Have a great day.
 
PeteE said:
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Such bitterness.... Relax a bit before you get an blood clot.

You're right... there was one mistake.
In TAP if you make a ball and scratch, it's closed. In TAP that's a legitimate shot. That's the crock.

As has been stated though, rules are rules, you play by and adjust. No big deal. If you can do it.

Are you really trying to claim that TAP is a NO Slop league, no exceptions? Do you really believe that to be an accurate descriptions? As has been stated, that would be a lie.

All that has been relayed about that player (skill level 6 moved to 7) can be clearly verified, if you really want to get to the truth. But instead of listening, you'd rather rebel and discount the obvious.... Same with the information regarding the skill level 4.

Every time anyone relays any details about the inaccuracies of the TAP handicapping system, you'd rather automatically assume the opposite. As opposed to gathering the information first, then react accordingly (right or wrong).

But you've already demonstrated your approach to handling potential issues.

As has been stated, to each their own. Have fun... Sling all you want.
 
It is simple, if you can't back up your accusations with fact, then what you say is just hot air... it was nice talking with you for a while, but now you bore me. Have fun in the APA, they deserve you!! LMAO.
 
No Slop Lie

PeteE said:
It is simple, if you can't back up your accusations with fact, then what you say is just hot air... it was nice talking with you for a while, but now you bore me. Have fun in the APA, they deserve you!! LMAO.
Click to expand...

It's all about the details. In TAP if you pick a pocket, that ball can go in all kinds of crazy ways. As long as it goes in that pocket, then they count it. It doesn't matter if it goes 7 extra rails or richochets off of 8 extra balls, and collides with the cue ball, then falls in the pocket. The point is, that's a slop shot. Thus, as has been stated it's a lie to say it's "no slop".

The automatic responses are, "how often does that happen?". It happens more often than you think. It happens enough. The deal is it has a bigger effect when it happens. I can give examples... but some people aren't intested in the truth. People play 9-ball which allows slop. For some reason people don't mind it there. They play by the rules and simply adjust to it. In 9-ball you know about it before the game starts. But at least in 9-ball it has a balanced effect. Both sides are just as likely to make a ball that way, and thus it has a balanced effect on the game. You have to be more careful when you play defensive, otherwise your defense will be countered. Players have even learned to adjust strategies and include in strategical calculations on how to hit balls in certain situations. Plus it adds fun and excitement. In 9-ball you see the biggest reactions from people when the player or their opponent makes balls that way. It's rather comical to see people's highs and lows. It makes it fun.

Now, the point that was stated, was that it's a lie for TAP to claim "no slop". But for some, they'd rather deceive than be accurate. I've seen it many times before with that organization. No wonder why they don't want/like the details.

You can spin it and attack all you want. The truth is still the truth.

You will likely duck and dodge as is the M.O. of your kind. You will digress and try to change the discussion into a different direction. You will have some other TAP representative take his turn at misleading the issues (how many TAP representative does it take to fight the truth from 1 person?). The facts are the facts, eventually you have to face em.

I make one little typographical mistake (one missed "not"), which was clearly obvious to those who even tried to understand what was being conveyed, and you attribute it to credibility. Afterwards, I simply admit it, because I'd rather deal with the truth, than try to defend or hide a mistake. TAP conciously and blatantly lies in their advertisement and other areas. Sam, a top TAP executive lies about "not being involved in politics" and not bashing every chance he gets, then later confesses to the truth that he's anti-APA. That's not the only lie I've busted him in. Where's the credibility in that?
 
" It happens more often than you think" .... Very accurate, extremely insightful, yet still is not laden with fact. I said that it does happen, but i do know for a fact that it does not happen as often as if a ball goes to a different pocket because someone slams a ball so hard that is a complete fluke that it goes in. I agree that in some cases that if you are doing a cross bank that you hit it harder in case you miss and it may go 2 banks, that is an educated miss. But to slam a straight on shot, miss it and go flying around the table to end up in a pocket at the other end of the table should not be considered anything other than "slop". I play in both leagues and see many more flukes in APA than TAP. Go out and do a count yourself and you will be able to see the difference. "it happens less often than you think"!!!

I do believe that you have your opinions and I have mine, but if you slam people personally, you have to be prepared to get slammed back. I have not slammed you, only pointed out that some of things you are trying to back up with numbers are unsubstantiated.
 
PeteE said:
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Click to expand...

I acknowledge the level of honesty within your response.

When you say "that it [slop] does happen". That confirms there is SLOP in TAP, as has been noted in those situations. Thus, to repeat, for TAP people and the TAP organization to claim "no slop" is a lie. Based on what you've seen from TAP and its representatives, it's obvious why they do it. You don't need to hear it from me, feel free to make up your own mind.

As for the 6 going to a 7 after the results of 1 match even after having played in the TAP handicapping system for over a year. All of that can be verified and proven as well. Do you really feel it's necessary to get into all of the very specific and intricate details right here? It can be done. Might be long winded, but in the end would it just be moot?

Feel free to look through this whole thread, have I said anything that has been proven wrong (ignoring the typo, of course)? Several points thus far have been made, and I've backed them up, where necessary and reasonable. Do you really want more detail?
 
IMO slop is making a ball in a non-called or unintended pocket. If you make it in the called pocket, it's not slop IMO.
 
Cue of Fury said:
IMO slop is making a ball in a non-called or unintended pocket. If you make it in the called pocket, it's not slop IMO.
Click to expand...

Not if it goes 7 extra rails and richochets off of 7 different balls which was not of the shooters choosing, but luckily manages to find itself into that pocket. No way I'd call that a skill shot. Totally slop, no matter how you look at it.
 
FLICKit said:
Not if it goes 7 extra rails and richochets off of 7 different balls which was not of the shooters choosing, but luckily manages to find itself into that pocket. No way I'd call that a skill shot. Totally slop, no matter how you look at it.
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How many times have you seen that exact shot happen? Give me a break, you're splitting hairs and it is moot to continue with you if you're going to be that way. :rolleyes:
 
Cue of Fury said:
How many times have you seen that exact shot happen? Give me a break, you're splitting hairs and it is moot to continue with you if you're going to be that way. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You understand what's being expressed... Geez....

Simpler example, shot for the corner, hits both tits, goes to opposite long rail, then back towards the pocket. Seen that happen many times.

START(
%DI7F8%Hf2F8%PZ6H4%WD3G4%XF4Z8%YD6E1%ZH7F4%_F5Z3%`D9D8%aC4D6

)END

You understand the point. Stop splitting hairs.
 
Slop, go look it up. It doesn't matter if it is a skill shot or not, the intent was to pocket the ball where it rolled in so it cannot be called slop. To call it slop is inaccurate. Slop would be intending to pocket the 9 ball in the corner, miss that corner and have it roll into any other pocket. That would be a slop shot.
 
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Cue of Fury said:
Slop, go look it up. It doesn't matter if it is a skill shot or not, the intent was to pocket the ball where it rolled in so it cannot be called slop. To call it slop is inaccurate. Slop would be intending to pocket the 9 ball in the corner, miss that corner and have it roll into any other pocket. That would be a slop shot.
Click to expand...

OK... I see how you're defining it. You call the pocket, and you don't care how sloppy it gets there. If it goes 7 rails and goes in the pocket, it's not slop. If it richochets off many other balls, no matter, it's not slop. OK, I see how you play it. So, it's not a matter of whether it's a good shot or bad shot, but simply a matter of whether you're lucky enough to get it into that pocket, no matter how sloppy the route. OK, I see your point.

Yeah, that's much more skillful. Really eliminates the luck factor.

Like has been said, you play by the rules and adjust. So be it.
 
Cue of Fury said:
It is the BCA/ACS/VNEA rules, I didn't make them up buddy. You're talking about those ridiculous bar rules where you must call every kiss, carom, rail, etc.

http://www.baydynamic.com/palmar/rules.htm

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_8bl.shtml

Pros play by those rules, I guess you can play by those other ridiculous rules if you like. Have fun!
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No, I'm not talking about calling every kiss... carom... rail... etc...

I read those rules, and that's what I was referring to...

It doesn't matter how sloppy it goes in, as long as it goes in the pocket.
 
Cue of Fury said:
Ya Any Pocket Asshole, ya! :p
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Wow! So mature of ya... You wanna stoop to such lows...

The Anal Probers
The Asshole Poolplayers
The APA Pretenders or
The APA PUSS!#S

Since the TAP organization is an APA copycat wannabe.
Who's your daddy?
 
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