Tell me what you think

boyersj,

I concur with 'justasdub', Bruce. He is so often one of the voices of reason here on AZB. He said it well and differently than I & perhaps better as he so often does.

That is why we need diversity to whch hopefully you will decide to contribute.

Best Wishes,
 
All I am going to say is WOW. I pursue trying to make a positive impact and the result is a negative shift in what was previously a positive thread.

1. I have been a student of this game for more than a decade, actually about 17 yrs. I am not "great" but I understand well enough to help those who have gotten stuck in their personal ascent.

2. As Scott indicated it is not easy. There is a time commitment above and beyond that which is required to learn how to become a teacher and provide others with the benefit of pool knowledge that I have discussed via phone with Mr Lee. Anyone can rambunctiously teach, but how do you KNOW the method is appropriate?

3. There is a "not to be ignored" financial investment to be fortunate enough to have such diligent education and training. I have had many people ask me to teach them to be better. I decided before I went down that road, i wanted some formal training myself other than the books, observation, and "on the table" experience.

4. This is probably the most important point I will make. I am a good player, respected in this area and also where I began playing pool. I have never been the best but well respected nonetheless. Wanting to be the best is one thing, but that is not my objective. I have a career and do not have the time to become a "champion" but i can share my years of knowledge with the refinement of an experienced and world re-known instructor. If you look through beginning of the thread, my concern has not nor will ever be about my own game. My concern was precisely this: Is what you see evidence that I can translate what I do to other players looking to improve. I already know the answer in my own heart but I was looking for some professional affirmation.

I am disappointed in anyone over looking these very simple points. Think about this one variable. An adult can achieve a high school education general equivalence diploma by taking a 6 hour test, evading 4 years of learning. They must have however learned that material somewhere. I don't agree with the GED program but the US government does. I am quite happy with my BSMET from Purdue and my 10 year career as a manufacturing engineer. I believe that by the end of the weekend my 17 years of billiard exposure, studying, and development will be worthy of membership into the PBIA>

To Mr. Scott Lee:
I apologize for the direction of this thread. I have truly been amazed at the change in tone in this thread. I regret posting anything and will refrain from future posts. It is quite obviosu that there is not total community interest to improve the game development for all who are interested without creating some level of drama. I hope you have a safe trip!

boyersj:

First, don't let what happened here have any influence on your posting behaviors. You have a mind, and should be allowed to speak it.

Second, let's understand what happened here. Your thread was going great, everything was positive, until a certain poster -- "ENGLISH" -- questioned the methodology of 1.) going to an instructor for help, and 2.) getting your own certification in the process. It was very obvious that -- and you probably don't know this because you most likely weren't here to know the history (and he himself hints at this when he talks about "healing" from threads from 6 months ago) -- ENGLISH was once again questioning the value of "certification" and of the value/integrity of pool instruction/instructors themselves. He'll of course frame it otherwise, but those that have been reading here for a while are aware of the history.

No matter, I replied to the point, offered examples of why this line of thinking was wrong, and to make my point, I used a bit of ENGLISH's own logic against him (i.e. the 46 years thing -- no need to get into that here). The post wasn't disrespectful at all -- pointed, yes, but not disrespectful. Using someone's own debating technique and stance against him/her is, itself, a debating technique, and you see it everyday on public forums.

And that's where things went awry. When I'd had enough of doing the subsequent "red pill" thing with him, I wiped my hands and called it quits. What you saw next, after I'd extracted myself, was his attempt to twist things around onto me, as if the whole thing was my fault, and he was merely an "innocent bystander," "trying to help," batting his "innocent" eyes. Anyone who's paying any level of attention can see right through this charade.

Again, don't let something like this yellow your enthusiasm for what you're about to go through (i.e. the class and certification), nor let it affect your enthusiasm for posting here. I think Scott Lee and others here will tell you the same thing. Sure, there are certain "personalities" here (of which I'm one), and there are certain "hot buttons" for these personalities. You'll learn those as you go along here.

Oh, and another thing -- some of us have "fan clubs" (read: anti-fans), and you'll get to know those relationships as well. ;)

I applaud you for what you're about to go through, and I wish you the greatest success and fulfillment in the whole thing. Do let us know how it goes when the process is complete!

Warmest,
-Sean
 
It's classic Sean. Cue much faux outrage and a condescending strop-off. I don't think he even knows he does it.

Pull the lion's tail and complain about the retaliation.

Oh, put a cork in it, Tim. You are so predictable, it's not even remotely funny. We all know why you're here; via your own words, too, Mr. Barfly-sporting-fisticuffs.

-Sean
 
PLEASE do not stop posting here, especially based on the turn of this thread.

You have a lot to offer, and a fine way of expressing yourself here. If Fran, Randy and Scott like what they see, and more importantly have had good exchanges with you, then you are part of the solution to the ills this forum has.

No forum that is open to all will run as smoothly as many of us would like. That is. An unfortunate side effect of having so many people, from so many backgrounds, with such diverse personalities all participating.

If stuff seems to get too far out of hand for your tastes, by all means step away. But please don't "go away", take a break and come back. I really enjoyed reading about your pursuit of improvement, and your interactions with Randy and Scott. I looked forward to reading how it all went with Scott, and how you see things differently coming from the instructors point of view.

Best of luck, enjoy your time with Scott, and please come back and tell us about it.

There are a lot more people reading than post in these threads.....don't forget them.

I 100% agree with this. Like I mentioned in my previous post, there are certain personalities on every public forum, and the trick is getting to know them. It's just like walking into a party room where you know noone, but you stand back and observe. It becomes clear after only a bit of time "who's who and what they do / represent," and from that point on, you know how to interact with them.

I applaud you for what you're about to go through, and as I'm sure most of the readers here will agree, we're eager to hear about your experience when complete.

I know it will be a success story!

Warmest,
-Sean
 
We do want to know how sporty they play. The silence was deafening.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=292972

And you are 100% entitled to feel that way. You're probably in a significantly-sized group, too -- as mentioned in that thread. But the crux of the thing is not to question (and certainly not to belittle) those that may not feel this way, who value an instructor for reasons other than how he/she plays, relative to "pros."

-Sean
 
If I might put in my opinion? I don't think it is fair to use the teachers stroke as the best guide. I think it is more about the ability to covey proper information?
Look at any pro coach in any other sport. They may have been good at one time, but some can barely put their pants on now without splitting them at the seams or throwing their back out! :grin:
It doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about.
 
Shaky1,

Who would decide what is 'proper' information?

Best Wishes,

That is a good question! I guess it would be the student? If he is learning something, improving, and is satisfied with the results, isn't that all that really matters?:smile:
 
But the crux of the thing is not to question (and certainly not to belittle) those that may not feel this way, who value an instructor for reasons other than how he/she plays, relative to "pros."

-Sean

I've often wondered this about you - are you on commission from 'certain' instructors?
 
That is a good question! I guess it would be the student? If he is learning something, improving, and is satisfied with the results, isn't that all that really matters?:smile:

But how would the student know the difference between a good instructor and poor instructor? More to the point, how would the student know before he choses his instructor?
 
Steve...You are an intelligent man, and already a skilled poolplayer. I am really looking forward to having you as part of our group! No need to apologize to me. Most people will see through the troll postings (no real need to identify those...you know who you are! :rolleyes:). See you in a few days...and I sincerely hope you do post your observations and opinions on this weekend (positive and negative). It is through communication that we make ourselves better teachers. Teachers also have the highest rate of retention, as we are continually demonstrating the information conveyed. One of the most important aspects of a good teacher is leaving the student with a way to identify and correct errors, and a way to measure results. The workings of the human brain dictate that we will forget 50% of what we learn today, by TOMORROW, if we don't have a way to review the information.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

All I am going to say is WOW. I pursue trying to make a positive impact and the result is a negative shift in what was previously a positive thread.


To Mr. Scott Lee:
I apologize for the direction of this thread. I have truly been amazed at the change in tone in this thread. I regret posting anything and will refrain from future posts. It is quite obviosu that there is not total community interest to improve the game development for all who are interested without creating some level of drama. I hope you have a safe trip!
 
I've often wondered this about you - are you on commission from 'certain' instructors?

Most definitely not. In fact, many of these instructors here can personally tell you that I have no qualms with disagreeing with how a particular item is explained (e.g. the backing information), or in tactics, etc.

But I do believe in the concept and purpose of instructors, coaches, etc. All major sports use them. To say that an instructor/coach should "demonstrate" pro-level or near-pro-level skills at the drop of a hat is pure bollocks. You rate instructors by how they instruct (i.e. relay/explain/clarify information, help make it understandable to the student), not by how they play.

And I also call bollocks on someone that says he/she believes every instructor should have a video of him/her playing, but yet has the gall to post so authoritatively in the Ask the Instructor forum and yet say there's no need for anyone to see a video of him playing because he says it's somehow not necessary, that his "text description" of his cueing technique is good enough.

Concerning that "on commission" comment -- not the first time you lobbed that one at me. (The last time, I recall, was when I answered a post about experiences with layered tips, and when I relayed my positive experiences with the Tiger Emerald tip, you predictably lobbed that "on commission" thing at me.) No, I'm not on commission from any instructors or instructor-certification authority, and no, I'm not on commission from Tiger Products -- or any other commercial entity, for that matter -- either.

We can erect a tombstone for the "on commission" thing now, right?

-Sean
 
...
The farther away you are from the cueball with your eyes the easier it is to lose your sight line or let your eyes cross you up.....
...
Chris

Chris and the Gang,

I haven't spent much time thinking about the position of my bridge arm. I've just settled on a slightly bent arm over the years, but now I'm curious.

The part you mentioned above seems backwards to me. When you are lining up a shot you do that while standing back away from the table. This gives you the best view of the shot line. Then you step into it. To me, it seems like being further away from the cue ball would give you a better view, not worse, of the sight line.

If you were to put your head right up next to the cue ball and try to aim it would be very difficult. Moving your head further back would give you a better view I think.

What am I missing here? Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by the term "sight line".
 
Chris and the Gang,

I haven't spent much time thinking about the position of my bridge arm. I've just settled on a slightly bent arm over the years, but now I'm curious.

The part you mentioned above seems backwards to me. When you are lining up a shot you do that while standing back away from the table. This gives you the best view of the shot line. Then you step into it. To me, it seems like being further away from the cue ball would give you a better view, not worse, of the sight line.

If you were to put your head right up next to the cue ball and try to aim it would be very difficult. Moving your head further back would give you a better view I think.

What am I missing here? Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by the term "sight line".

BD,

IMHO, you are correct. It is similair to aiming guns of different barrle lengths. The longer the distance between the front & back sights the more accurate the aim.

If I start missing & percieve it to be aim related, I will shoot some with one hand to get my 'eye' back.

Best Wishes,
 
But how would the student know the difference between a good instructor and poor instructor? More to the point, how would the student know before he choses his instructor?

Also a good question! How do we know when we are taught anything whether it comes from a good teacher? I guess we somehow figure it out?
Improvement in a subject or a skill that can somehow be measured ?
I think it's tougher for a newcomer to get established, just like everywhere else in life.
Later, or preferably sooner, word of mouth gets around (if you don't go broke first)!
It 's the same way with my business! :smile:
 
And I also call bollocks on someone that says he/she believes every instructor should have a video of him/her playing, but yet has the gall to post so authoritatively in the Ask the Instructor forum and yet say there's no need for anyone to see a video of him playing because he says it's somehow not necessary, that his "text description" of his cueing technique is good enough.

The second I start making money from teaching is the second I put a video of myself playing on here. I thought that point was obvious.

We can erect a tombstone for the "on commission" thing now, right?

-Sean

Meh.
 
Also a good question! How do we know when we are taught anything whether it comes from a good teacher? I guess we somehow figure it out?
Improvement in a subject or a skill that can somehow be measured ?
I think it's tougher for a newcomer to get established, just like everywhere else in life.
Later, or preferably sooner, word of mouth gets around (if you don't go broke first)!
It 's the same way with my business! :smile:

Instructors are missing a trick. A website, a bit of clever marketing and a few infomercials could see the more marketing savvy teachers look a very good bet to the newbie pool player.
 
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