Template racks in 14.1 taboo...?

[The_JV]

So my greatest struggle thus far in my 14.1 journey has been break shots. Not the shot itself, but putting together a tight rack and generating the spread required to continue my runs.

My table is worn without question, and it won't be reno'd for some time. This lends to loose racks and disappointment. I've tried all the "traditional" methods for getting a tight rack, but there's zero consistency.

The other day however, I used my 8 ball magic rack and I'm very pleased with the results thus far. My first thought was the rack would be stuck in place throughout the bulk of the run and cause me fits with the more sutble shots common when picking apart the rack. However, I was shocked at how well the pack breaks apart when the balls are actually tight, and the removal of the template happens in rather short order. It's not a perfect circumstance, but I fully expect my run consistency to increase decently with the use of the template.

With all that said... Is the use of magic rack type templates in 14.1 taboo...? I have never seen anyone use a similar template in all the 14.1 vids I have watched. ...and the anal retentive nature of 14.1 purists regarding how everything must be perfect to play the game, (cloth type / condition / cleanliness, balls...etc). Just had me wondering if I'm breaking some unwritten rule with a template. Worst yet, when I do a "Facebook Live" exhibition and make 628 balls, will some discredit my efforts....?....lol

 

[sparkle84]

CJ won't care but DH and Radar will definitely be whining.

 

[Bob Jewett]

In Europe they tried the equivalent and it didn't work out. They have combined championships with some set of 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball and 14.1. The tables are tapped (small dimples in the cloth) so no rack of any sort is used -- you just roll the balls into place. Players figured out that there are dead balls out of the full rack and the 14-ball rack. Some players started ignoring the break ball and simply played for position on a dead ball for their break shot. They moved the rack for 14.1 to the other end of the table where there was no tapping.

 

[The_JV]

So you're suggesting that a template rack could potentially create wired (dead) balls...? I haven't noticed such movement, but I haven't ran the gambit of direct rack hits to see if such a thing is possible on my table.

Do you think the "dead" balls were the result of a consistent tight rack, or the action the rack generates with the balls exiting the dimples...?

 

[Bob Jewett]

So you're suggesting that a template rack could potentially create wired (dead) balls...? I haven't noticed such movement, but I haven't ran the gambit of direct rack hits to see if such a thing is possible on my table.

Do you think the "dead" balls were the result of a consistent tight rack, or the action the rack generates with the balls exiting the dimples...?

If you look at the forces involved, the forces from the dimples are insignificant during the break.

If all the balls are frozen, there will be the same dead shots every time. Even if the balls are not frozen, if they are in the same exact place every time, you will be able to find a dead ball.

Here is the classic example from the European 14.1 championships before they changed the rule. Notice that the opponent racks with his hands. That shows that the table is tapped.

 

[The_JV]

If you look at the forces involved, the forces from the dimples are insignificant during the break.

If all the balls are frozen, there will be the same dead shots every time. Even if the balls are not frozen, if they are in the same exact place every time, you will be able to find a dead ball.

Here is the classic example from the European 14.1 championships before they changed the rule. Notice that the opponent racks with his hands. That shows that the table is tapped.

I didn't think it would make any notable difference. Never hurts to ask though....

Your example was just meant to display the ease a dimpled cloth racks...? I cycled through the duration and didn't see any direct play for a "dead" ball on the break shot. Not including the initial break shot by He.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I didn't think it would make any notable difference. Never hurts to ask though....

Your example was just meant to display the ease a dimpled cloth racks...? I cycled through the duration and didn't see any direct play for a "dead" ball on the break shot. Not including the initial break shot by He.

The initial break shot is what I meant. No one in the olden times ever played for a dead ball on the opening break in any 14.1 match that was important.

 

[The_JV]

The initial break shot is what I meant. No one in the olden times ever played for a dead ball on the opening break in any 14.1 match that was important.

Well believe it or not, that's the first time I have witnessed a "dead" ball break. If that's the only circumstance born from a template tight rack, then I t'm thinking I'm good to continue using a magic rack.

I do find it funny that in a game wherein the participants are intensely concerned about the conditions of both the equipment and the quality of the balls/racks that efforts were made to introduce the randomness of bad rack. Whether that be alignment or gaps

Thanks for the conversation Bob

 

[Bob Jewett]

I do find it funny that in a game wherein the participants are intensely concerned about the conditions of both the equipment and the quality of the balls/racks that efforts were made to introduce the randomness of bad rack. Whether that be alignment or gaps

I think a better solution would have been to not allow a call from an undisturbed 14- or 15-ball rack.

 

[cjr3559]

A purist may point out that drawing the rack outline using a template poses a complication if not an impossibility.

 

[The_JV]

A purist may point out that drawing the rack outline using a template poses a complication if not an impossibility.

Sry lost me.... Can you explain how an outline is a complication and/or impossibility...?

 

[cjr3559]

How would a rack outline be drawn on a table using a template, in my mInd it would not accurately represent if balls are in/out of the rack. Just something to consider, or not. Not a big deal.

Here’s what made me think of this:

14.1 Rack Outline

I'm getting ready to re-draw the rack outline on my Diamond Pro-Am table. I know from previous discussions there is nothing in the rules defining what a "regulation" rack for 14.1 should be (much to my dismay). But I've noticed recently in many...

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[Bob Jewett]

A purist may point out that drawing the rack outline using a template poses a complication if not an impossibility.

If you are using a template or tapping, you have to draw the outline with a triangle that will never be used during the game. From the rules for 14.1:

If the table is tapped at 14.1 the outline of a triangle will still be drawn for the purpose of deciding whether a ball is in the rack area. When ball rack template is used at 14.1 the outline of a triangle will still be drawn for the purpose of deciding whether a ball is in the rack area.​

 

[The_JV]

How would a rack outline be drawn on a table using a template, in my mInd it would not accurately represent if balls are in/out of the rack. Just something to consider, or not. Not a big deal.

Here’s what made me think of this:

14.1 Rack Outline

I'm getting ready to re-draw the rack outline on my Diamond Pro-Am table. I know from previous discussions there is nothing in the rules defining what a "regulation" rack for 14.1 should be (much to my dismay). But I've noticed recently in many...

forums.azbilliards.com

ah ok....

Just in case there's a little broken telephone happening. When I'm speaking of a template for racking. I mean something akin to a magic rack, or accu-rack. Not a template to draw an outline on the table for racking purposes.

 

[The_JV]

If you are using a template or tapping, you have to draw the outline with a triangle that will never be used during the game. From the rules for 14.1:

If the table is tapped at 14.1 the outline of a triangle will still be drawn for the purpose of deciding whether a ball is in the rack area. When ball rack template is used at 14.1 the outline of a triangle will still be drawn for the purpose of deciding whether a ball is in the rack area.​

That's interesting.... I don't have an outline for checking if the balls can be racked or not. The magic rack allows me to get away with racking balls with a really close break ball

 

[Bob Jewett]

That's interesting.... I don't have an outline for checking if the balls can be racked or not. The magic rack allows me to get away with racking balls with a really close break ball

The problem is that such a ball can be too close to the rack to pocket.

 

[The_JV]

The problem is that such a ball can be too close to the rack to pocket.

Yes definitely... Just yesterday I had a break ball so close to the rack that I had to play the carom off the second last ball to pocket the OB into the bottom corner. On the upside it does allow for maximum energy into the rack...lol

 

[Dan White]

Yes definitely... Just yesterday I had a break ball so close to the rack that I had to play the carom off the second last ball to pocket the OB into the bottom corner. On the upside it does allow for maximum energy into the rack...lol

You should consider drawing a normal triangle around the rack area so that you don't get accustomed to making break shots that are not allowed on any other table. I also have problems with loose racks. I just look at it as an opportunity to improve on getting through tougher spreads.

 

[The_JV]

You should consider drawing a normal triangle around the rack area so that you don't get accustomed to making break shots that are not allowed on any other table. I also have problems with loose racks. I just look at it as an opportunity to improve on getting through tougher spreads.

Fair enough.... Reality is that I highly doubt I'll play the game outside of my own home. I've never seen it played live in my +30yrs of playing.

 

[Dan White]

Fair enough.... Reality is that I highly doubt I'll play the game outside of my own home. I've never seen it played live in my +30yrs of playing.

I understand but it isn't really straight pool played properly if you are able to use break balls that normally would be considered in the rack. For instance, any high run you might report to the 14.1 forum list would be disqualified if you happened to use such a break shot.

Big picture, do whatever you want and it's great you're playing straight pool. Just letting you know some of the caveats.