Ten ball safety rule - WPA

[Jobba786]

"But I get what you are saying and safety play has a more integral role when 10 Ball is played with the option available to the incoming player on ALL misses (whether a ball falls or not)."

and they then have to shoot after a "normal" safety not pocketing any balls..

I completely agree with you there.

 

[klockdoc]

You may use the safety, pocket a ball and hope that the other player takes a hard shot (not giving it back to you) - this option for the opponent is different from 8-ball rules

If you do not pocket a ball, there is no difference between calling a pocket or safety. - exactly as 8-ball


And I do not believe that this is the intention with the 10-ball rules. I know they have been changed, but this makes no sense to me.

You're questioning 10 ball. Not running a comparison. don't confuse 8 ball rules with 10 ball. Two entirely different games.

 

[JC]

But why call safety then? If you pocket the ball legaly, you continue, if you don't and do not make any foul, the opponent has to play. If you call safety and do not pocket, just the same as calling and not pocketing. If you call safety and pocket, the opponent may choose.

I cannot see what you gain by calling safety.

I too cannot imagine nor have I seen a scenario where verbally calling safety would be necessary in 10 ball based on the rest of the rules. If anyone who understands the rules and has played a bunch can describe such a scenario I would be interested and surprised. Until you grasp this the rules as written can make you feel like you're missing something important, but you're not. I think the rules could be slightly rewritten to make this clear.

JC

 

[Jobba786]

You can't see an advantage where? Calling safety?

The only reason that you are calling safety is because the game is a "call shot" game. You have to call your pocket. If you cannot pocket a ball, you call safe so the referee knows your action.

Or just call any pocket and miss. If you accidentaly makes the ball in that pocket then you continue.

Both 8 and 10 ball are call shot games therefore I did compare.

 

[klockdoc]

I too cannot imagine nor have I seen a scenario where verbally calling safety would be necessary in 10 ball based on the rest of the rules. If anyone who understands the rules and has played a bunch can describe such a scenario I would be interested and surprised. Until you grasp this the rules as written can make you feel like you're missing something important, but you're not. I think the rules could be slightly rewritten to make this clear.

JC

For those you that missed it or decided not to read it.......under definitions

8.17 Safety Shot

A shot is said to be a safety shot if the game in play is a call shot game and the shooter declared the shot to the referee or his opponent to be a “safety” before the shot. Play passes to the other player at the end of a safety shot.

I do not think a safety has to be called unless in a call shot game.

All 9.6 is doing is clarifying a safety being declared and certain things happening.

 

[Jobba786]

I too cannot imagine nor have I seen a scenario where verbally calling safety would be necessary in 10 ball based on the rest of the rules. If anyone who understands the rules and has played a bunch can describe such a scenario I would be interested and surprised. Until you grasp this the rules as written can make you feel like you're missing something important, but you're not. I think the rules could be slightly rewritten to make this clear.

JC

Thank you! I was afraid I was getting insane.......

 

[Jobba786]

For those you that missed it or decided not to read it.......under definitions

8.17 Safety Shot
A shot is said to be a safety shot if the game in play is a call shot game and the shooter declared the shot to the referee or his opponent to be a “safety” before the shot. Play passes to the other player at the end of a safety shot.

I do not think a safety has to be called unless in a call shot game.

Play passes to the other player at the end of a safety shot, but this not 100 % correct in 10-ball if a ball is pocketed, the other player might decide that you have to continue.

 

[hang-the-9]

The advantage of a safe, if you accidentally pocket a ball on a safe, and get the hook, the other guy has to take the shot. I'm sure we all have tried to play safe and accidentally banked, kicked, kissed a ball in, forcing up to take the position we were going to leave the opponent in.

See Eferen's "Z shot"

Actually, in the rules it may be that if you make a ball by accident the other guy may make you shoot. In which case, you may as well call everything.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

The advantage of a safe, if you accidentally pocket a ball on a safe, and get the hook, the other guy has to take the shot. I'm sure we all have tried to play safe and accidentally banked, kicked, kissed a ball in, forcing up to take the position we were going to leave the opponent in.

See Eferen's "Z shot"

Actually, in the rules it may be that if you make a ball by accident the other guy may make you shoot. In which case, you may as well call everything.

You answered your own post, lol. WPA rules state if a ball is wrongfully pocketed during a safety your opponent has the option.

 

[klockdoc]

Play passes to the other player at the end of a safety shot, but this not 100 % correct in 10-ball if a ball is pocketed, the other player might decide that you have to continue.

Yes it is. It is 100% that it will pass to the other player if you call safety and do not make a ball.

It is also 100% that the other player gets to decide who will shoot if you pocket a ball. Himself or you. That is the reason for the 9.6 rule....to clarify this situation.

You are reading too much into this.

 

[Jobba786]

Yes it is. It is 100% that it will pass to the other player if you call safety and do not make a ball.

It is also 100% that the other player gets to decide who will shoot if you pocket a ball. Himself or you. That is the reason for the 9.6 rule....to clarify this situation.

You are reading too much into this.

More people should have been reading and the rules would have been rewritten.

9.6
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning...

could have been, The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “a pocket” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning.

 

[klockdoc]

More people should have been reading and the rules would have been rewritten.

9.6
The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “safety” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning...

could have been, The shooter, after the break at anytime may call “a pocket” which permits him to make contact with the legal object ball without pocketing a ball and end his inning.

LOL. That is the regular scenario in a "call game" of 10 ball. The player calls his shot, if he misses, it passes play to the opponent. Don't need a special explanation for that. That is the way the game is played.

 

[klockdoc]

Here's a shot for you. You break...1 ball is tied up with the 7 ball one diamond below the side pocket. You really do not have any pocket to make it in.

You decide to call a "safety". You bank the 1 ball behind the 7 and stick the cue ball on the 7 with a good safety. Excellent shot. However, the 1 ball caroms off the 3 ball and goes in the corner.

You called "safe" because you didn't have a pocket to shoot at. Now it is up to your opponent to allow you to shoot again or take the shot himself/herself.

Like I said, the calling of safety would probably only come up if the next ball was tied up, or if you didn't have a shot at all. All the rule is doing is giving an explanation to WHAT HAPPENS if the ball is accidentally pocketed after calling safe.

Since it is a call game, you have to clarify to the referee what your play is.

In a non call game situation, you would probably just play the safety without declaring it. If the ball was pocketed during that play, you would just be stuck with the continuing next shot, not the opponent.

 

[JC]

Actually, in the rules it may be that if you make a ball by accident the other guy may make you shoot. In which case, you may as well call everything.

I've taken to calling the ten ball somewhere on every kick bank or more than medium speed shot. Even if it seems unlikely to be hit. If you're gonna call something might as well go for the glory!!:smile:

 

[Jobba786]

yes it is normal that the inning ends when you miss

In 8 ball you f.ex. have a ball close to the pocket, if you do not say anything, it is obvious that you will pocket the ball in that pocket, and it will be accepted as called. Therefore you call "safe" to pocket the ball and end your inning.

In 10 ball a safety after pocketing a ball works as a push out.

The rules were not good described by WPA.

The safety is also of far less importance (close to none) in 10-ball than 8-ball if you are not playing for that push out which I think will be very rare.

And yes I see that it would be common and gentle towards referee and opponent to call "safe"

 

[klockdoc]

yes it is normal that the inning ends when you miss

In 8 ball you f.ex. have a ball close to the pocket, if you do not say anything, it is obvious that you will pocket the ball in that pocket, and it will be accepted as called. Therefore you call "safe" to pocket the ball and end your inning.

In 10 ball a safety after pocketing a ball works as a push out.

The rules were not good described by WPA.

The safety is also of far less importance (close to none) in 10-ball than 8-ball if you are not playing for that push out which I think will be very rare.

And yes I see that it would be common and gentle towards referee and opponent to call "safe"

A safety does not work as a push out after pocketing a ball.

1). After making a ball, you cannot "push out"
2). A push out suspends wrong ball first or no rail after contact. Safety does not.
3). A safety has to be a legal shot. meaning legal OB and hit a rail after contact

 

[Jobba786]

I said after pocketing a ball (and ment than also after a legal shot). The comparison was that the other player may choose.

If you think the rules are written like they should it is you opinion. I respect that, but I disagree and mean they should clarify.

If WPA sends me an answer I will post their answer here.

At least I know the rules now and got the answers I wanted from you. The communication was a bit hard, but anyway I am thankful that you all took your time to reply to this thread.

Jon Birger

 

[klockdoc]

I said after pocketing a ball (and ment than also after a legal shot). The comparison was that the other player may choose.

If you think the rules are written like they should it is you opinion. I respect that, but I disagree and mean they should clarify.

If WPA sends me an answer I will post their answer here.

At least I know the rules now and got the answers I wanted from you. The communication was a bit hard, but anyway I am thankful that you all took your time to reply to this thread.

Jon Birger

Didn't mean to come across that way if I did.

Well, going to go out and shoot some pool. Standard...not call shot (so I don't have to worry about the 9.6 rule).

 

[Jobba786]

Didn't mean to come across that way if I did.

Well, going to go out and shoot some pool. Standard...not call shot (so I don't have to worry about the 9.6 rule).

Have a nice night! It is getting quite late in Norway now. I will play tomorrow!

 

[Jobba786]

Reply from WPA

Here is the reply I received from WPA:


Hi Jon

Firstly, it is a foul if no ball is driven to a rail after contact with the object ball.

Secondly, you are right as no player bothers to call safety because it is of no benefit to him. We are aware of the this being unnecessary and will be attending to it in the next rules review.

Just to let you know how this got into the rule in the first place: 10Ball was aimed at avoiding most fluke shots and therefore all shots were to be called. The word ‘safety’ was brought about so that a player had to call safety if he intended to snooker his opponent. If a player did not call safety and ended up snookering his opponent, his opponent would have the choice to ask him to play again. Anyway, something went wrong when going to print and it was left out.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Regards
Ishaun