Testing Your Stroke

[mr3cushion]

I see You prefer the super jack up approach. To each his own. It took me 3 attempts.

I did notice, it didn't appear that you changed your technique from 1 attempt to another.

ICBW.

 

[lfigueroa]

Here is one successful attempt:

I had 2 or 3 better ones where the CB ended up at a straighter angle, but they weren't filmed.

I'm surprised by how softly you were able to shoot it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I Never mentioned "My" cue was perfectly level. In "My" video with a 'Perfect' stroke the cue follows the 'same plane' it originates from.

I'd say there's a Huge difference between "My" stroke and yours. "My" cue Never quivers off the line of aim a mm.

Well actually, your stroke does not appear to be perfect.

From these two screen shots it's clear from how the distance between your cue and your bridging arm changes that your stroke shifts off the line of aim.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lets not forget the title of this thread. "Testing Your Stroke." Two viewers tried it and publicly posted those vids results.

That was the Entire idea of this thread! Get viewers to think a little out of their comfort zone.

Remember, If a player doesn't have this style of shot in his arsenal He gives his opponent another inning at the table.

Now, if you are considered the, 'Mover' in the game and your opponent is a, 'Shooter' with 1 ball on the table, You have the worst of it from there.

I'm trying real hard... but I just don't recall being out of my comfort zone at any time during this thread.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I agree with Lou on almost all of this. In particular, the shot needs a little downward angle, if only to ensure you are hitting the cue ball at the right spot. But, I do think you can hit it at a speed where the cue ball doesn't jump after hitting the 1.

IMO, the shot is really an exercise in knowledge, correct aim and execution. And I think it does "test" your stroke straightness when shooting off the rail.

Separately, I think Dr. Dave disproved that follow-through impacts deflection.

And I also agree with Lou that it's not really a hard/difficult shot. I would say maybe 4 or 5 out of 10 if you have good mechanics.

-td

I'm beginning to wonder if the shot is even possible with a level cue.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Anyone actually shooting this shot for the $ on the last two balls in one pocket?

Frankly, I doubt it.

Like I said earlier it's more common at 9ball than 1pocket. However, if you move the setup so no pocket/scratch is in play you could go ahead and shoot it with gay abandon. As is, you'd have to wait for a day that you're feeling jiggy with it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Hungarian]

YOU jacked up and shot 'Down' and Your cue went flying up!

What stroke/follow-thru category would that fall under?

That's the JB killer stroke you are referring to!!

 

[lfigueroa]

That's the JB killer stroke you are referring to!!

Respect, lol.

Lou Figueroa

 

[nataddrho]

Stroke type doesn’t matter, dynamically. Please read this thread about how a cue ball is hit.

"How" a cueball is hit.

For a single given cue, the only possible dynamic influence a player can have on a cue ball is the following: The impact vector. The vectorincludes the following: position on the face of the cue ball (center of contact patch) angle of incident velocity The impact time (duration) is only, at...

forums.azbilliards.com

In summary,

Different “types” of strokes cause the cue ball to behave differently, ONLY because the tip hits the cue ball in a different location.

The ONLY thing you can do to a cue ball is impart an impact vector.

Therefore, you can produce ALL possible cue ball effects with the EXACT same stroke, by just changing your tip location, speed, and angle.

The necessity of different TYPES of strokes is pure myth.

The application of different TYPES of strokes, however, is useful if it makes changing the impact vector more consistent.

Even though many players observe cause and effect similarly, the details of what is happening is important. Even if many players believe in the use of different types of strokes, physically it isn’t a necessity.

Disagreeing with the physics is nonsense.

Disagreeing with the usefulness of different types of strokes is a different subject because it can be physiologically beneficial.

This is the best way to explain my point.

 

[mr3cushion]

Stroke type doesn’t matter, dynamically. Please read this thread about how a cue ball is hit.

"How" a cueball is hit.

For a single given cue, the only possible dynamic influence a player can have on a cue ball is the following: The impact vector. The vectorincludes the following: position on the face of the cue ball (center of contact patch) angle of incident velocity The impact time (duration) is only, at...

forums.azbilliards.com

In summary,

Different “types” of strokes cause the cue ball to behave differently, ONLY because the tip hits the cue ball in a different location.

The ONLY thing you can do to a cue ball is impart an impact vector.

Therefore, you can produce ALL possible cue ball effects with the EXACT same stroke, by just changing your tip location, speed, and angle.

The necessity of different TYPES of strokes is pure myth.

The application of different TYPES of strokes, however, is useful if it makes changing the impact vector more consistent.

Even though many players observe cause and affect similarly, the details of what is happening is important. Even if many players believe in the use of different types of strokes, physically it isn’t a necessity.

This is the best way to explain my point.

Is it basically what You are saying is that a player can play Any cue game with just 1 stroke?

An 8' bridge and follow thru 8" on All shots, where allowed.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Stroke type doesn’t matter, dynamically. Please read this thread about how a cue ball is hit.

"How" a cueball is hit.

For a single given cue, the only possible dynamic influence a player can have on a cue ball is the following: The impact vector. The vectorincludes the following: position on the face of the cue ball (center of contact patch) angle of incident velocity The impact time (duration) is only, at...

forums.azbilliards.com

In summary,

Different “types” of strokes cause the cue ball to behave differently, ONLY because the tip hits the cue ball in a different location.

The ONLY thing you can do to a cue ball is impart an impact vector.

Therefore, you can produce ALL possible cue ball effects with the EXACT same stroke, by just changing your tip location, speed, and angle.

The necessity of different TYPES of strokes is pure myth.

The application of different TYPES of strokes, however, is useful if it makes changing the impact vector more consistent.

Even though many players observe cause and effect similarly, the details of what is happening is important. Even if many players believe in the use of different types of strokes, physically it isn’t a necessity.

Disagreeing with the physics is nonsense.

Disagreeing with the usefulness of different types of strokes is a different subject because it can be physiologically beneficial.

This is the best way to explain my point.

It would be interesting to make your digital CB in carom size, and give it to top 3C players to try all the strokes on.

 

[nataddrho]

Is it basically what You are saying is that a player can play Any cue game with just 1 stroke?

An 8' bridge and follow thru 8" on All shots, where allowed.

Actually, yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

You can play any game with just one stroke, IF your tip placement is accurate enough.

Where different strokes come in to play is simply a way to cause the tip to hit the cue ball where you really want it to. But that is really all it does.

 

[td873]

I'm beginning to wonder if the shot is even possible with a level cue.

Lou Figueroa

Agreed. I don't think it is possible shooting level, Lou. Even the OP shot downward. I don't think you can get the vectors right with a level cue as the necessary contact point on the cue ball is obstructed by the rail shooting level. Adjusting with a little elevation corrects for this, just as you suggest [and all the shots on video prove].

-td

 

[nataddrho]

It would be interesting to make your digital CB in carom size, and give it to top 3C players to try all the strokes on.

This is exactly what I plan on doing.

Cue ball hits happen so fast that a religion is born out of what is happening to the cue ball.

If you follow math, you’ll find that a lot of stroke advice can be condensed into simply,

“You need to be extremely accurate to play well”

 

[iusedtoberich]

Nice shooting TD!

 

[iusedtoberich]

This is exactly what I plan on doing.

Cue ball hits happen so fast that a religion is born out of what is happening to the cue ball.

If you follow math, you’ll find that a lot of stroke advice can be condensed into simply,

“You need to be extremely accurate to play well”

Yes I agree. But all the artistic billiard and 3C players for sure use a lot of strokes, and say certain shots can only be made with xyz stroke. I'd be curious to know what is happening on the CB in these scenerios.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Here are 6 more attempts from me (last night) that were almost successful (edited to remove the missed attempts). Only #4 and #6 got on the ball enough to pocket it, but the other attempts I think had a better line (but less speed).

 

[couldnthinkof01]

Frankly, I doubt it.

Like I said earlier it's more common at 9ball than 1pocket. However, if you move the setup so no pocket/scratch is in play you could go ahead and shoot it with gay abandon. As is, you'd have to wait for a day that you're feeling jiggy with it.

Lou Figueroa

I think if I saw my opponent shooting that I'd either politely ask to double the bet or say, "no thank you mister Chohan I'm not doing any gambling today"

 

[mr3cushion]

It would be interesting to make your digital CB in carom size, and give it to top 3C players to try all the strokes on.

Better yet, try a get a 'Virtual 3C player' to do the 'xyz' thing in a REAL game or even in practice! LOL!

 

[nataddrho]

Better yet, try a get a 'Virtual 3C player' to do the 'xyz' thing in a REAL game or even in practice! LOL!

Ok, touché.

But now your stretching the joke.

The DigiBall is a real product I made, not virtual. It records where the cue ball is hit, much more accurately than, for example, a Rempe training ball, because it uses gravity as an alignment vector and measures spin with an IMU.

Here’s a video: