Thanks F8it for draw wrist snap info.

Billy_Bob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
F8it; Thanks for your excellent explanation of how to do the "wrist snap" for draw shots.

I finally got around to trying it today and it works like a charm!

FYI - I do not intend to use the wrist snap method unless it is an exceptionally long draw shot and I have no other options. I don't feel as though I can control how far back the cue ball goes as well as I can with the regular follow through stroke. But it is a handy shot to have in my bag of tricks if needed. I would only expect to use this maybe once per week (very rarely).

For those learning draw shots, I would suggest *not* attempting to use a wrist snap until you have mastered a regular draw shot. (Or you may see the cue ball drawing way back and circling the table a few times when you just wanted it to come back 6 inches!)
 
What did I miss. I don't recall seeing a post explaining the "wrist snap." Perhaps you can link me to it? Thanks in advance.
 
lukeinva said:
here is the link to the thread about wrist snap
http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=12108

Its not all about wrist snap but it gets on the subject...I am pretty sure this is the one if not then all I can say is I tried!!! :p


That thread is about the dumbest thread I've read. Sorry but I ain't gonna sugar coat it. This magical wrist snap is nothing more than what is done naturally. The problem is most players stiff arm it (jerks and god only knows what) of and never let there wrist release. When they do (what should happen naturally) they think it's a snap. It is only what happens naturally and IS NOT a forced movement.

The flow (natural smooth acceleration) of the average to well above average pool player is terrible. Their so quick anything would be an improvement. Just for the record, you don't even need to use your wrist to have a great draw stroke. It's not about wrist snap or lack of, it is about however, striking the c/b very low at the right speed for distance required, and hit it EXACTY where intended. This happens to be the most difficult part since at least 90+ % of the people on the planet can't do it.

Sure they do sometimes, but any method will never produce consistency without an accurate hit. It's just about basic fundamentals, that's all. This snake oil forumla will surely leave you in a heart beat. But really, I don't want you to take my word for it. If you should ever reach the level of say, an A+ player it will all be history anyway and forgotten.

Just for the record I do play with a loose wrist, but there isn't any snap; just a good tension free release.


Rod
 
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Rodd said:
That thread is about the dumbest thread I've read. Sorry but I ain't gonna sugar coat it. This magical wrist snap is nothing more than what is done naturally. The problem is most players stiff arm it (jerks and god only knows what) of and never let there wrist release. When they do (what should happen naturally) they think it's a snap. It is only what happens naturally and IS NOT a forced movement.

The flow (natural smooth acceleration) of the average to well above average pool player is terrible. Their so quick anything would be an improvement. Just for the record, you don't even need to use your wrist to have a great draw stroke. It's not about wrist snap or lack of, it is about however, striking the c/b very low at the right speed for distance required, and hit it EXACTY where intended. This happens to be the most difficult part since at least 90+ % of the people on the planet can't do it.

Sure they do sometimes, but any method will never produce consistency without an accurate hit. It's just about basic fundamentals, that's all. This snake oil forumla will surely leave you in a heart beat. But really, I don't want you to take my word for it. If you should ever reach the level of say, an A+ player it will all be history anyway and forgotten.

Just for the record I do play with a loose wrist, but there isn't any snap; just a good tension free release.


Rod

Perhaps proper acceleration through the stroke will seem like an intentional "wrist snap" to somebody who has a habit of failing to maintain their mechanics through the stroke, but an low and accurate hit of the cue ball with good acceleration through the stroke will cause a big draw, regardless of what your wrist is doing.

Hmmmm.....guess what I'm saying, Rod, is that I agree with you 100%.
 
sjm said:
Perhaps proper acceleration through the stroke will seem like an intentional "wrist snap" to somebody who has a habit of failing to maintain their mechanics through the stroke, but an low and accurate hit of the cue ball with good acceleration through the stroke will cause a big draw, regardless of what your wrist is doing.

Hmmmm.....guess what I'm saying, Rod, is that I agree with you 100%.

where were you guys when i was arguing about this earlier in the week sjm......LMAO

VAP
 
Rodd said:
Just for the record I do play with a loose wrist, but there isn't any snap; just a good tension free release.

Rod


That is the funniest sentence in the whole wide world!!! Of course you have to put your head in gutter but once you do its hilarious!!!! :D Your right thought it is a great tension release!!! :D
 
Rodd said:
That thread is about the dumbest thread I've read. Sorry but I ain't gonna sugar coat it. This magical wrist snap is nothing more than what is done naturally. The problem is most players stiff arm it (jerks and god only knows what) of and never let there wrist release. When they do (what should happen naturally) they think it's a snap. It is only what happens naturally and IS NOT a forced movement.

The flow (natural smooth acceleration) of the average to well above average pool player is terrible. Their so quick anything would be an improvement. Just for the record, you don't even need to use your wrist to have a great draw stroke. It's not about wrist snap or lack of, it is about however, striking the c/b very low at the right speed for distance required, and hit it EXACTY where intended. This happens to be the most difficult part since at least 90+ % of the people on the planet can't do it.

Sure they do sometimes, but any method will never produce consistency without an accurate hit. It's just about basic fundamentals, that's all. This snake oil forumla will surely leave you in a heart beat. But really, I don't want you to take my word for it. If you should ever reach the level of say, an A+ player it will all be history anyway and forgotten.

Just for the record I do play with a loose wrist, but there isn't any snap; just a good tension free release.


Rod

Thank you Rod. I had about given up and had gotten to the point where I couldn't take any more of the thread about my draw stroke sucks and the snapping of the wrist etc.

Maybe I have a unique prespective here. You've been a highly advanced player for many years and might have forgotten what it was like before you got there. I, on the other hand, think I can clearly understand where all that stuff like a wrist snap, and other nonsense, is coming from as my stroke has only recently evolved to the point where I'm no longer trying to force something to happen to the cb and have been able to just stroke it with an extremely light grip and no tension and LET the action on the cb take place.

I'm still not a "highly advanced player", like I would describe you as being, but something has happened to my game. Just a few months ago I was still trying to force things to happen to the cb... kinda like the wrist snap action. What a difference in the feel and result it is to just let it happen...as you described. I couldn't do that a few months ago. I couldn't just "let it happen". I didn't yet know how to do that. Once the "letting go" happened my stroke became "sweet"...for lack of a better of more descriptive term.

It was quite a revelation when it happened and it's almost like it just "happened" to me out of the blue. Of course it just "happened" as the result of tons of practice, potting about 350,000 balls this past 5 years, (I have the practice logs to prove it!) and consequently passing through a certain nameless and previously unknown barrier. The other side is much sweeter.

I think the key to the "passing" was the grip and getting my elbow out away from my body allowing for unimpeeded and natural follow-through. Just cradleing the cue in my hand, with no really conscious gripping of it, appears to have enabled other things to happen to my stroke. Things that I had no idea could or would happen. All of a sudden "things" like the transformation of my draw stroke from being a POWER stroke to being a sweet stroke have occurred.

The game is becoming much more fun.
 
Rodd said:
That thread is about the dumbest thread I've read. Sorry but I ain't gonna sugar coat it. This magical wrist snap is nothing more than what is done naturally. The problem is most players stiff arm it (jerks and god only knows what) of and never let there wrist release. When they do (what should happen naturally) they think it's a snap. It is only what happens naturally and IS NOT a forced movement.

The flow (natural smooth acceleration) of the average to well above average pool player is terrible. Their so quick anything would be an improvement. Just for the record, you don't even need to use your wrist to have a great draw stroke. It's not about wrist snap or lack of, it is about however, striking the c/b very low at the right speed for distance required, and hit it EXACTY where intended. This happens to be the most difficult part since at least 90+ % of the people on the planet can't do it.

Sure they do sometimes, but any method will never produce consistency without an accurate hit. It's just about basic fundamentals, that's all. This snake oil forumla will surely leave you in a heart beat. But really, I don't want you to take my word for it. If you should ever reach the level of say, an A+ player it will all be history anyway and forgotten.

Just for the record I do play with a loose wrist, but there isn't any snap; just a good tension free release.


Rod

I agree with you completely. This guy tried to make it seem like he knew the "ultimate truth" to maximum draw, when it's just a bunch of bullcrap. I've seen players draw the cueball unbelievable lengths without snapping their wrist. Some people do, some people don't. Just like you said, the ability to draw the cueball long distance with accuracy comes from the quality of stroke, how low you strike the cueball, and how accurately you strike the spot on the cueball you intended to.

I think some people get the notion that you "must" snap your wrist on draw shots because they watch Efren play, but they actually get fooled. It may look like Efren's wrist is as loose as Django's, but it's not. It's actually quite steady during his strokes. He just keeps a very loose grip. His wrist does not waver on his strokes, he lets the weight of his cue do all the work for him so he does not need the loose wrist to do anything extra to the cueball.
 
How do you know that there are such weirdos that stay to the end of the credits? :)
 
XzyluM said:
What did I miss. I don't recall seeing a post explaining the "wrist snap." Perhaps you can link me to it? Thanks in advance.

Yes that is the thread posted just after your question. In this thread, F8it explains in excellent detail how to do the "wrist snap" draw shot.

All I could find on this technique before was to "snap your wrist when hitting cue ball".

And as I have learned, those who know certain nifty tricks like this don't seem to tell others all the "details" of the shot or technique. So I when I attempt such a shot, I of course can't do it. Then I learn about the "details" and suddenly can execute the shot just fine.

Helps to have all the information.
 
I don't know about snapping the wrist . I have heard a lot of players that say you have to snap the cue back as if there is a magnet that makes them cue ball follow the cue backwards. Everyone is amazed at how t I can draw back the cue ball. I do not snap my wrist, or jerk back the cue, just follow thru with level cue. Do not use much force either.
 
JimS said:
and might have forgotten what it was like before you got there.


What a difference in the feel and result it is to just let it happen...as you described. I couldn't do that a few months ago. I couldn't just "let it happen". I didn't yet know how to do that. Once the "letting go" happened my stroke became "sweet"...for lack of a better of more descriptive term.

It was quite a revelation when it happened and it's almost like it just "happened" to me out of the blue.
I think the key to the "passing" was the grip and getting my elbow out away from my body allowing for unimpeeded and natural follow-through.
The game is becoming much more fun.

Jim, sure I have forgotten. However very early on it was never a problew to draw the hell out of the ball. Problem was, I never knew exactly it was gonna stop. LOL Then along come top english, here is where I really started to learn the game. I had so many options to play position (the way it should be done) that it was a matter of learning how to control my stroke for any given shot.

Problem is when one doesn't have a good reliable stroke it makes the learning process very difficult. I think players today are learning (whether it be books, tapes, etc.) the game faster but there reading to many myths, or reading far to much into what is suppose to be a simple motion.

It's putting the correct peices togther and blend them in a smooth forward motion. Just like you you couldn't just let it happen. Something was missing. You stuck it out though and found the right mixture. Now you keep fine tuning that mixture.

When you try a strong (draw, follow-whatever) that is beyond your capable range your mixture may go haywire and miss, miscue, - whatever. That's because your not able to execute at a faster pace and still be accurate. It doesn't mean you need to rebuild - it just needs more fine tuning to that simple motion. A little confidence goes a long way.

Rod
 
Billy_Bob said:
... I finally got around to trying it today and it works like a charm!...
I suspect it works by compensating for another flaw in your fundamentals. I think it is a mistake to fix one flaw by layering on other flaws.
 
BrianK74 said:
...When another pivot point is added to the mix, (namely the wrist), it activates unnecessary muscle groups therefore adding inconsistency. Inconsistency means missing more often and potental and frequent miscues, (though most people will blame it on forgetting to chalk up).

So is it bad [for my stroke] to experiment with different things?

At this point, I am in "learning all I can" mode. So I read about the "wrist snap" draw and wanted to try it. I did learn something from experimenting with this, and that is I can't get an accurate draw back when using this method.

Personally I feel it is good to try different things and experiment, then use what works best. Then you know why the method which works best should be used, and why other methods should not be used.

I've only been playing seriously for two years, so I think it is better for me to experiment now rather than later. Some of this experimenting does mess up my playing in the short term (like switching the weight of my cue), but I think it will be best for the long term.

Also from my point of view, I don't know who is right and who is wrong when people give me conflicting advice. So I try both for myself and learn which works best.
 
BrianK74 said:
Precisely. This drives me nuts, and it's not the first time I've heard speak of this old wives tale.

I was taught that the only two pivot points should be ones elbow and ones grip. One should keep a firm but relaxed grip on the butt of their cue using only their thumb, middle & index fingers. The cue should not be against ones palm, if it is, the follow through, (and the shot), will be compromised.

The wrist should stay straight in line with the forearm. The upper arm should be as horizontal as is humanly possible, (read: parallel with the cue). The shoulder should never drop at any time, this causes a scooping effect. The forearm is the pendulum and the grip provides the relief that is required during the forward action of the stroke.

When another pivot point is added to the mix, (namely the wrist), it activates unnecessary muscle groups therefore adding inconsistency. Inconsistency means missing more often and potental and frequent miscues, (though most people will blame it on forgetting to chalk up).

There is only one stroke for any and all billiard games. The mechanics never change, only the speed of stroke and where one contacts the cue ball. The stroke for a draw shot is exactly the same as the stroke for follow & kill shots. One must stroke through the cue ball in all shots to apply the proper spin. Follow through is the key to good draw, not a wrist snap.

Less experienced players think they must stop the cue at the point of contact or pull it backwards for draw. The wrist snap is a similar placebo effect. They are possibly allowing themselves to let the cue go and provide more follow-through motion when they believe "snapping their wrist" is responsible.

Spend some time working on the follow-through and forget about the wrist snap. The fundamentals of great pool playing start & stop with great stroke mechanics.

The wrist-snap is an advanced technique and isn't recommended for all levels of poolplayers. Everyone should start off getting grounded in the basic fundamental stroke that you suggested.

For more advanced players, there is definitely a time and a place for many different stroke techniques. There are definitely times when that technique can be a lifesaver.

Most every stroke can be accomplished by various means. Sometimes some strokes can be achieved more easily and more consistently by certain means.

In other words, every shot is about delivering the cue stick to whitey at a certain contact point with a certain speed through the shot. It's all simple physics. Thus, if you are going for draw, and you hit below center using your arm at speed of X then you will get draw (as long as X speed is able to overcome the friction caused by the felt and the weight of the ball).
You could also deliver the cue at a speed of X, by using your arm for a speed of X-Y, but use your wrist to generate a speed of Y. Thus (X-Y) + Y would still equal X.

Now, there could be a slight difference, because with your arm, X was generated over the length of the stroke (from backstroke to contact to instant of no contact with tip). Thus speed from contact to instant of no contact with tip would be relatively consistent.

Whereas, if you generate the speed of Y with your wrist. Then that increase in speed is generated over a much shorter distance.

So now, if you're trying to accelerate through whitey, then your arm would generate acceleration over the length of the arm stroke. Whereby your wrist would generate acceleration over a shorter distance. By Physics, this more instanteous acceleration would deliver a higher degree of spin.

Now, on the other hand, you could just move your arm at speed of X+Z and generate the speed necessary for more draw (whereby X+Z would be greater than X+Y). More simply stated, Z would be greater than Y. Thus you could generate the same draw speed by using more arm speed than would be required by using arm and wrist speed together.

Now, the question would be which could you do with more consistency:
Generate extra speed by using a faster speed with your arm or
Generate extra speed by using your wrist.

For most, it'd be to simply use your arm.
For those who have developed this ability with their wrist, then this'd be simpler.


NOTE: To put it more simply, trick shot artists have developed very excellent wrist-snap, because they deal much more with the extremes of the game of pool, especially with regards to spin.

I saw Tom "Dr. Cue" Rossman in a demonstration where he hit the cue ball into an object ball in such a manner that the cue ball stopped cold in its tracks, but remained spinning ferociously for at least 15-30 seconds.
As a test: try to achieve that without using wrist snap.
Remember, no movement at all from the cue ball forwards, backwards, left or right.

OK, for those of you who get super-technical, no more than 1/4 inch of movement.

Hmmmmmm..... didn't mean for it to sound like a doctoral thesis.... ;)
 
FLICKit said:
...So now, if you're trying to accelerate through whitey, then your arm would generate acceleration over the length of the arm stroke. Whereby your wrist would generate acceleration over a shorter distance. By Physics, this more instanteous acceleration would deliver a higher degree of spin...

Ah Ha! Something just clicked...

Just sitting here at my computer, I tried moving my arm as fast as possible (speed), then tried flicking my wrist as fast as possible (speed). I can flick my wrist much faster!

I guess this is because my wrist is light weight and I can get it up to speed faster? Sort of like how you can hit faster with a lighter weight cue.

Anyway that explains why I can draw so much further with a wrist flick than with a regular stroke. I'm getting more speed.

BTW - I can easily draw one table length with my regular stroke, but can easily draw one and a half table lengths with a wrist flick. (That is with the cue ball one diamond back from the object ball.) But if I want to draw the cue ball back a specific distance like one diamond or just one half diamond, I am going to use my regular stroke as that is very accurate.
 
FLICKit said:
...
I saw Tom "Dr. Cue" Rossman in a demonstration where he hit the cue ball into an object ball in such a manner that the cue ball stopped cold in its tracks, but remained spinning ferociously for at least 15-30 seconds.
As a test: try to achieve that without using wrist snap.
...
The trick shot artists sometimes call this "Spanish Dance" because the cue ball often wobbles while it spins in place. It is not necessary to use wrist snap for the shot. It does help to have a flexible cue.
 
Billy_Bob said:
...
Anyway that explains why I can draw so much further with a wrist flick than with a regular stroke. I'm getting more speed....
Another explanation is the the wrist flick changes your fundamentals so that you hit the ball lower and get more back spin. Try aiming lower on the cue ball with your regular stroke until you miscue at least 10% of the time. Then come up a millimeter.
 
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