The APA can kiss my.......

seahorse1877 said:
What the hell? I just got back from Las Vegas where I played in the APA nationals for nine ball. It was a team event and we did ok, we came in the money 65th to 34th bracket. I was shocked at the conditions of the tables, the balls were by far the crapiest balls I have ever seen. One of our teammates got bumped after losing two out of three matches. And the biggest kicker is for finishing 34th in the nation in the APA for nine ball we recieved twenty dollars apiece. Technically we got $500 for the team but the APA took $350 of that back. They give you $350 when you arrive in Vegas and if you place in the money they take it back!!!!! WTF.....

The table we played our last match on rolled every way but straight. I could pick the felt up with my fingers and pull it at least six inches off of the slate. I could push the felt at least three inches causing several wrinkles. And every rail bounced and rebounded differently than the last. I think that a company as big as the APA could do a little better for a "National" event. I am out of the APA and was just wondering if anyone else feels the same or experienced the same.
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Seahorse, I think you need to understand something here about the tables, just imagine if the tables were in PERFECT condition...how many players that would just mess up totally:grin: I mean think about it for a minute, if you're use to playing on crap tables back at the bar you're playing out of...wouldn't you want the same conditions to play on at a NATIONAL level? The APA is not about bettering the conditions of pool, they're not about improving the equipment, they're not about trying to raise the standard of pool in any way shape or form, they're about "MONEY":grin: Why should they care what-so-ever about the equipment used in their NATIONAL playoffs....it's not THEIR equipment after all right, and they certainly don't have any imput about the equipment conditions...right? Players are STILL going to show up for the nationals right? It's not the players equipment, so why should they care...right?...just fork over the money and play on junk...that's the American way...take the money and run:grin:

I guarantee you, heads would roll if Diamond put on an event like that with equipment in that condition. What kind of cue ball was being used...on open to play tables?...Red circle, or once again...keep the players using what they play with at the local bar...magnetic cue balls that still don't roll straight?..hmmmmmmmm....maybe the APA is OVER paid, or underfunded to the point that they can't afford better equipment:grin:

Glen
 
I played in the Master's tournament out there this year. No complaints about the tables. They weren't perfect, but you can't expect too much when they're setting up a couple hundred of them. Besides, who plays on perfect tables? And if you do, I contend that it's bad for your game. I had the pleasure of rooming with John Schmidt one time at a pool tournament in VA. After the tournament, we went back to the hotel and John was telling me how bad the tables played compared to his practice table. Then, it was like an epiphany, John says, "Maybe it doesn't help my game that I play on a perfect table for practice, since you never find a perfect table at tournaments." I think that assessment is spot on. Pool players need to stop whining and treat the equipment similar to how a golfer treats a golf course. The next time you meet bad conditions, imagine you're playing Torrey Pines with the wind kicked up to 25 mph coming off the Pacific and the rough at 5 inches. After all, it's the same conditions for everyone. The truly great players make adjustments to their game and adjust to any playing conditions. The bangers cry about the conditions (I realize that sometimes the greats cry too, while adjusting).

Rather than this thread being about the tables in Vegas, how bout a thread about the sub-zero temperatures at the Riviera. My wife and I both had to buy $50 Hustlin sweatshirts just to survive. We consistently took walks outside to thaw out. The AC was kicked up WAY too high.

End of rant.
 
So, we paid our dues each week to play in the league. We did good and managed to win the local tournament. The APA paid airfair and hotel room for everyone on our team to spend a week in Vegas and play for some big money.

Damn, you're right! They really do treat the players like crap, don't they?

:rolleyes:

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
So, we paid our dues each week to play in the league. We did good and managed to win the local tournament. The APA paid airfair and hotel room for everyone on our team to spend a week in Vegas and play for some big money.

Damn, you're right! They really do treat the players like crap, don't they?
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Remember, that's our LO treating us well. Many franchises don't pay for the trip to Vegas or just a small portion of the cost.

Brian
 
Some of the posts from people that seemed like they weren't there are intresting. The tables were horrible plan and simple. You want to talk about slow cloth/bad setup/shitty balls, thats one thing, but to say 'hey everyone has to play on it' is way off mark. This isn't some pool hall were a couple of roadies are matching up for a long race. This is a place where a 5 is spotting a 3 2 games, but that 3 is just as good as the five. Sorry but one shitty role on the table could cost you the match. So spare me the 'everyone has to play on it' speech. Any good bar box player will tell you that shitty equipment takes away from the more skilled player and gives to the least skilled player.

The biggest problem with those tables were the rails. Sure we all can adjust to slow cloth, or whatever chemical they put on the felt/balls that make drawing so inconsistent. The dead rails killed me. I'm not talking about a little thud and losing some action, no i'm talking about balls hitting the rail and popping up an inch or two.

In the end APA NTC was a joke, and I wish we would have lost early so I could of enjoyed my week in Vegas. Or better yet, informed about how bad the equipment was and how much bullshit the handicapping system is so I could have just sold my 4 plane tickets, two free rooms, and saved my week of vacation.
 
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mapman72 said:
Rather than this thread being about the tables in Vegas, how bout a thread about the sub-zero temperatures at the Riviera. My wife and I both had to buy $50 Hustlin sweatshirts just to survive. We consistently took walks outside to thaw out. The AC was kicked up WAY too high.

End of rant.
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Truer words have never been spoken. In some areas of the mini tournament room, it felt like a stone cold minimum of 10 degrees cooler. Could have been just vent location near certain tables but MAN, was it annoying.
 
btoneill said:
Remember, that's our LO treating us well. Many franchises don't pay for the trip to Vegas or just a small portion of the cost.

Brian
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I really do feel sorry for the players who have to put up with a poor LO.

I can't imagine an Operator treating his/her players any better than what mine does.

The first place team in my league, got upwards of $9000 for their trip and the 4th place team got around 2 or 3.

The above mentioned is just the benefits the Vegas teams get, he's always available by phone or email and fairly sets skill levels.
 
I got a talkin to for my negativity so here are a couple of positives...

The tournament board workers were great people and very helpful.

I had two awesome refs that were not on ego trips.

They opened the tables for the main tournament, we didn't expect that

The bartenders made a great bloody at 8a.m. when we were on 3 hours of sleep.
 
Bugz said:
Sorry but one shitty role on the table could cost you the match. So spare me the 'everyone has to play on it' speech. Any good bar box player will tell you that shitty equipment takes away from the more skilled player and gives to the lesser skilled player.
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Ok, first of all, I don't recall ever playing a match where I didn't get a 'bad roll' (been playing for 32 years). One of the differences between Open/Professional level players and regular jobbers is that the O/P players take responsibility for what they did wrong in a match rather than blaming something that was outside of their control. This way they can go back to the practice table and work on that long draw shot they missed at 1-1 that completely changed the course of the match they lost 9-8. Jobbers who do not improve forget about that draw shot and complain about the table rolling off 1/16 of an inch when the score was 8-8, thus ensuring that their loss was not their fault and leaving them nothing to practice except their whining skills.

Your second argument is bizarre. Bad equipment takes away more from a good player than a bad player...HUH? Wouldn't you agree that a good player is more likely to recognize a dead rail, a slight table curve, or a heavy cue ball and compensate? Agreed that a barbox brings players of different skill levels closer together, but to imply that the conditions of that barbox give the lessor player an advantage is ridiculous. If I slow roll a ball once and it rolls off, that's the last time I slow roll a ball on that table. I've been in matches where a less skilled player has slow rolled 5 shots, all of which have rolled off. They failed to compensate for the table conditions. It sounds like you're bitter and tired of the APA handicap system in general. In that case, take a crack at your local open-level regional tour. You will see that 1. all the tables are in perfect condition all the time, 2. You never lose to someone you're not supposed to lose to, and 3. You'll never get a bad roll at an important time in the match. Of course, none of those statements are true, but I'm sure you'll still be complaining about the dead rail that you just found out about at 8-8 and forgetting about those 3 shots you dogged in the second game.
 
Yup you're right, i'm a sore losing jobber. Stupid too, shouldn't have busted my ass for 4 years to get there.

What apa league can I join that has races to 9, i want to play there:grin:. I might learn how to run more then 2 balls. Gotta have someone teach me how not to use the rails on a table though. Scott Lee, can you teach me how to run a rack without using the rails?
 
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Neil said:
Your argument has a lot of merit. But.... only for longer races. In a short race, one bad roll can easily mean the match.
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Point taken. I really think the part about the poor conditions favors the lesser player is off base. One thing I found interesting when I started hanging around professional players is that they would notice things about the table, balls, felt, and environment that I never noticed. It gives them an advantage to notice those things because they will inevitably make adjustments.
 
I think your right Map. The only things that may give lesser players a better chance are shorter races and wrong handicaps.

Your point about taking responsiblity of the outcome in order to become better is dead on. Not only in pool but in life.

Good players learn from all rolls, both good and bad.
 
mapman72 said:
Point taken. I really think the part about the poor conditions favors the lesser player is off base. One thing I found interesting when I started hanging around professional players is that they would notice things about the table, balls, felt, and environment that I never noticed. It gives them an advantage to notice those things because they will inevitably make adjustments.
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Mapman ... They also notice things about their opponents, like which shots will be a low percentage shot, which shots they can not execute at all, how good at kicking, and many more things. Quite a few things really can be determined from watching your opponent's stance and stroke.
 
Been at the team championship in one way or another since 2003. And the singles 3 times. While I can agree the tables are not perfect, I have yet to witness these horrific conditions. But then again, some people can't be pleased and whine if it's not what or the way "THEY" want it.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Fifteen Pages of Posts about the APA, and has any APA Official Responded?
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Well Cowboy, you may have noticed that Mark Griffin is the only person from any of the sanctioning bodies to both post on AZ on various threads and on this specific thread! Mark has a vested interest in what happens in the pool world. He also cares about what is said. We have had several phone conversations about AZ posts. If he didn't care, why would he ask for background. For all practical purposes, Mark is the face and voice of the BCAPL.

Why don't the others post? Perhaps they don't care about what is said. Perhaps they feel only negative input is available here. Perhaps they do not wish to let us know the thinking behind how they operate their events. Regardless, more people should at least let Mark know how they feel. His e-mail and phone number are readily available at playbca.com and on each of his posts (think he cares?).

Lyn
 
Given the amount of APA bashing that I see on just about every thread that even mentions the APA, if I were with the APA, I doubt if I would be interested in joining the group. Maybe the read it, but I can understand not getting involved.

Steve
 
cardiac kid said:
Well Cowboy, you may have noticed that Mark Griffin is the only person from any of the sanctioning bodies to both post on AZ on various threads and on this specific thread! Mark has a vested interest in what happens in the pool world. He also cares about what is said. We have had several phone conversations about AZ posts. If he didn't care, why would he ask for background. For all practical purposes, Mark is the face and voice of the BCAPL.

Why don't the others post? Perhaps they don't care about what is said. Perhaps they feel only negative input is available here. Perhaps they do not wish to let us know the thinking behind how they operate their events. Regardless, more people should at least let Mark know how they feel. His e-mail and phone number are readily available at playbca.com and on each of his posts (think he cares?).

Lyn
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FYI ask Mark if he has any interest or affiliation Diamond Tables. Lets see what his answer is! Could it be he is hoping to draw palyer from the APA to his BCAPL?
 
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