the balance of the cue, where, why, and how??

Train1077

Train1077

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Would someone please be kind and tell me a bit about balance points of cues.

I most admit I like the balance point of the Preadtor 5K series and the Ikon series, I do not know if it because of the so called C4 technology. They tend to have the balance quite far forwards.

I am tall 6'2 (188cm) and No matter where the balance point of the cue is, I have to hold the cue almost at the very end of the butt.

Considering what I have been reading, this means that I like to have a grip quite far from the balance point. But I have been reading that is should be about 6 inces from the balance point. But does the balance of the cue not change, considering how far away from the bridge hand I have my grip?

Does any of this make sense, and could someone please explain it to me??
 
Train1077 said:
Would someone please be kind and tell me a bit about balance points of cues.

I most admit I like the balance point of the Preadtor 5K series and the Ikon series, I do not know if it because of the so called C4 technology. They tend to have the balance quite far forwards.

I am tall 6'2 (188cm) and No matter where the balance point of the cue is, I have to hold the cue almost at the very end of the butt.

Considering what I have been reading, this means that I like to have a grip quite far from the balance point. But I have been reading that is should be about 6 inces from the balance point. But does the balance of the cue not change, considering how far away from the bridge hand I have my grip?

Does any of this make sense, and could someone please explain it to me??
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The balance point is simply the fulcrum point where a cue will be level if balanced there. Modern cues have a balance point that is typically 19" - 20" from the end of the buttcap. Older cues from the 1920's - 1950's had fat, heavy butts, so the balance point was more like 16" from the butt.

This has little to do with anything.

When you address the cue ball, ideally your forearm and bicep will form a 90 degree (or a little less) angle at impact. To achieve that, the cue must be long enough for your physique. Typically, a player your height will need a 60" cue to have their stroking hand on the grip and still have somewhere close to a 90 degree angle.

In terms of balance point, I can play with two different cues 60" long that weigh 19 ounces and have 19 inch balance points, and although my hand position will be the same, the balance feels totally different from each other. Why? I have no idea, but I'm certain it does.

Chris
 
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Because of your height, I would look at cues that are balanced not more that 19 inches from the butt. Of course it depends on what you like, but since your hand is so far back on the cue, a forward balanced cue would IMO feel awkward. I'm just short of 6'1'' and I gravitate toward right around 18.5 inches from butt. This is all assuming a 58 inch cue. If you find 60 inch cue, around 19 inches from the butt might feel good to you.

my 2 cents.


By the way, there are some world class players that play with 58 inch cues that hold the butt right at the end.
 
TATE said:
In terms of balance point, I can play with two different cues 60" long that weigh 19 ounces and have 19 inch balance points, and although my hand position will be the same, the balance feels totally different from each other. Why? I have no idea, but I'm certain it does.

Chris
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I can explain this. It has to do with weight distribution. In your example the two cues are same length and have same balance point but that is all. If you check the weight bolts may be different weights and/or screwed in to different depths to acheive the balance point. If you removed the weight bolts the cues would likely be completely different in both weight and balance.:smile:

Terry
 
everyone is talking height. Whats important is the reach you have. I am 5'11.5"(not quite 6 foot) and I have a 76+" reach.

I too grab at the butt end and only have about 9 inches on the cue at full address unless I keep my front arm bent (that's feels awkward).

You may also want to look into a longer cue either a 30" shaft and 29" butt ( this is what I use) or 30/30" split. I have used both and still would prefer a 60" cue but I don't like having a 3" difference from my Varney J/B cue which is 57".

Shaft diameter also effects the balance point too as well as the type of pin used.
 
Train1077,

Six inches back from the balance point is a recommended starting point espoused from old school pool books like Mosconi, when pool was played more upright.

As Tate pointed out, what is more important is you're are holding the cue in a level position at set position, wrist and cue should form the 90 degree angle.

It sounds to me that cue balance point isn't at the heart of your issue, but the length of the cue in relation to the natural wingspan of your stroke. As others pointed out, you may need a longer stick.
 
ctyhntr said:
Train1077,

Six inches back from the balance point is a recommended starting point espoused from old school pool books like Mosconi, when pool was played more upright.

As Tate pointed out, what is more important is you're are holding the cue in a level position at set position, wrist and cue should form the 90 degree angle.

It sounds to me that cue balance point isn't at the heart of your issue, but the length of the cue in relation to the natural wingspan of your stroke. As others pointed out, you may need a longer stick.
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No offense, but that is so wrong. The only Mosconi book I ever thumbed through said just that; 6" from the balance point. We all know how short Mosconi was. It was when I first started getting serious about my pool game that I read that. I should take a picture of myself when holding a cue ANY CUE 6" from the balance point. My point is with my long arms (or height for others) I have my back arm WAY too far forward. It feels very very uncomfortable and looks just as uncomfortable.

Long of the short is; grip the cue where your rear arm is perpendicular to the cue (give or take a few inches). Then don't forget about the shafts address or pivot point (I like 10"). Then find a cue that feels balanced to you. And if you still need more advise read my earlier post on how the weight/balance point can vary for different reasons.


Sorry, but had to intervene when I saw the old "grip 6" from balance point" post
 
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Tjlmbklr,

Glad you agree. This piece of dated advice is still floating around as gospel. Shows the lasting legacy of Mosconi's books.
 
Just curious why are all sticks 57 and 58" I have never felt comfortable with these lenghts? I never had the money for a custom made cue so I made my own 61" cue and it feels good but a 60" may fit my 6' height better.

Larry
 
tjlmbklr said:
Then don't forget about the shafts address or pivot point (I like 10").
Click to expand...

I do not understand these two terms, the shaft address and pivot point, is this where the shaft will balance??

I think I will be looking for a longer cue.

The Z2 shaft I have is only 29" wouldn't that be awkward with a 60-61" butt?? I can't afford a 30" shaft at the moment, unless someone has a used one for sale and cheap.

Isen't the best 50/50 % distribution, not 31"/29" or 31"/30 ??

is it possible to buy a 31" predator Z2 shaft? and does the lenght affect the deflection and squirt?
 
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Grip on stick

Personally, I don't think 6'2" is tall. 6'6" and up is tall. First off, normal bridging distance was 6 to 8" in back of the tip for a long time. Now, some players bridge 10, 12, even 14" behind the tip, BUT THAT IS NOT THE STANDARD. A lot of the Filapinos have long bridges, most notably Bustamante.

Your bridge arm is suppose to be slightly bent, but a lot of players play with the bridge arm locked straight. That tends to make the player grip the cue further back with the grip arm than is necessary. I have noticed a lot of players that grip the very end of the cue do not have their grip arm perpendicular to the floor, which can create other problems when playing, and in your shooting.

When I was 14, 15, I used to watch a basketball player from New Jersey that is 7'1" tall play Pool (He was pretty darn good). He had the proper form even though his hips were way above the table, and he did not have a problem gripping his cue, a normal 58" 2 piece cue.
(He was a good basketball player and Pool player but ended up getting expelled out of school because he exposed hisself to a young lady).

The point I am trying to make is that many of you are doing unconventional things with your form and stance, and stroke, and then you complain about a couple of things, whereas if you would correct your stance, grip, and stroke to begin with, those other things would disappear, and would not be a problem. Even if you have good form, sometimes we start doing things unconsciously that develop into bad habits and problems for us. Revisit your basics often, make sure you have a good foundation to build that stroke on.
 
Train1077 said:
I do not understand these two terms, the shaft address and pivot point, is this where the shaft will balance??

I think I will be looking for a longer cue.

The Z2 shaft I have is only 29" wouldn't that be awkward with a 60-61" butt?? I can't afford a 30" shaft at the moment, unless someone has a used one for sale and cheap.

Isen't the best 50/50 % distribution, not 31"/29" or 31"/30 ??

is it possible to buy a 31" predator Z2 shaft? and does the lenght affect the deflection and squirt?
Click to expand...

My terminology may have been off. The address is the length of cues shaft from the tip to your bridge point where your arm is perpendicular and the tip is just barely touching the CB (full address as the say). Pivot point....well I will be brief and possibly wrong, but in so many words it's the area where YOU bridge that the deflection is canceled by the swerve....when using things like front/backhand english, I think....you may want to just search for the subject on this forum there are a few topics...like 6 million or so on the subject. ;)

Hope this helps.
 
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Train1077 said:
I do not understand these two terms, the shaft address and pivot point, is this where the shaft will balance??

I think I will be looking for a longer cue.

The Z2 shaft I have is only 29" wouldn't that be awkward with a 60-61" butt?? I can't afford a 30" shaft at the moment, unless someone has a used one for sale and cheap.

Isen't the best 50/50 % distribution, not 31"/29" or 31"/30 ??

is it possible to buy a 31" predator Z2 shaft? and does the lenght affect the deflection and squirt?
Click to expand...


For now I would just stick with your set up as is, and hold your hand back toward the butt on the cue if that gives you a decent address position (your forearm should be pointing straight down, or a little forward of that, at impact with the cue ball). When you get some additional money, you can get a 30" Predator Z2 shaft unfinished, then have it fit to any 30" butt.

I know players with long arms who went with 60" cues then switched back to 58" because they weren't as accurate. Shorter cues tend to be stiffer -and stiff is consistent.

Chris
 
Could the extra 2 inches really mean that much??

Wouldn't the extra lenght of wood just cause elasticity that will propel the CB more forward, causing nothing to make the CB go to other places than where aimed??
 
Train1077 said:
Could the extra 2 inches really mean that much??

Wouldn't the extra lenght of wood just cause elasticity that will propel the CB more forward, causing nothing to make the CB go to other places than where aimed??
Click to expand...

The extra length will increase the elasticity, but the very vast majority of the elasticity is in the shaft. If you place your shaft between your hands and attempt to bend it (gently) you will see that it flexes (considerably). Notice, also, that most of the flex is down towards the tip where the shaft is thin. Do the same for your butt and you will see that it does not flex nearly as much (less than 5%-ish)
 
That was the good thing about making my own 61" cue. I left the joint at .90" instead of the standard .84" and used a stiff taper on the shaft. Alittle to stiff, when I get time I will experiment and play with the taper some.

Larry
 
Train1077 said:
Could the extra 2 inches really mean that much??

Wouldn't the extra lenght of wood just cause elasticity that will propel the CB more forward, causing nothing to make the CB go to other places than where aimed??
Click to expand...

Well, look at it this way: a carom ball is a lot larger and heavier than a cue ball, and carom cues are typically 2 - 3" shorter than a pool cue. They also have a straight taper. Combined with the short length and the taper, the cues are a lot stiffer. So, the 2" does seem to make a big difference in the overall flex of the cue.

The Predator Z shaft is plenty stiff to handle the extra length - that's why I recommended it in conjunction with a longer butt. The concern is that someone will take a conventional "pro taper" shaft and extend it even further - making it too flexible for consistency.

I play with a Predator 314-2 30" on a Joss West 30" butt. I think I now would prefer a stiffer set up, so I think I'm going to try a "Z" or a Tiger shaft.

Chris
 
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63Kcode said:
That was the good thing about making my own 61" cue. I left the joint at .90" instead of the standard .84" and used a stiff taper on the shaft. Alittle to stiff, when I get time I will experiment and play with the taper some.

Larry
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That was an intelligent approach. It's truly a compromise between getting a cue that's lively enough to feel good but stiff enough to be consistent.

I have a friend with a 62" cue and I would fear putting any spin on the cueball - I feel like every english shot squirts 4" off course and I have no confidence making anything.

Chris
 
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