The Basics

I didn't mean you specifically. I just think we'd be better off demystifying the game a little for newbies. I think if you tell most pool players that are interested in dabbling in the game a little that first they're going to have to go thru some apprenticeship in straight rail, balkline, whatever, they're going to say the same thing that my 9-ball playing friend said, which was, "Oh then forget it".
It is funny when someone suggests the straight rail route and then you ask them what their straight average is and they say, "Well, yeah, I don't really play it all that much..."
Yeah, "small" games, right. I've made 10, but average 10, that's a different story.
 
eze123 said:
I think if you tell most pool players that are interested in dabbling in the game a little that first they're going to have to go thru some apprenticeship in straight rail, balkline, whatever, they're going to say the same thing that my 9-ball playing friend said, which was, "Oh then forget it".
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That's because your pool playing friend has already got accustomed to pool and how pool is played. Moreso, if he's an adult, you will find it more hard to teach him a game to, say, a young pupal. Like the saying goes: "You can't teach an old dog, new tricks." Not that it is entirely difficult to teach at an elder stage, but the concepts are not going to be there to become more advanced.

Let me explain about the first sentence in the previous paragraph:
In pocket billiards, one's objective is to hit the cueball into an object ball and pocket the object ball without pocketing the whitey. Pretty self-explainatory for us that know this game too well. Henceforth, it's an "everybody's" game... from bangers to pros.

Let's get into carom: anybody aiming to just "go for the kill" and flatout try out on 3-cushion will get the ol', "Let's just get Bob Byrne's book or anything that has three-cushion diagrams or whatever and let's take it from there". Well, seriously, did Maurice Vignaux, Willie Hoppe, Jake Shaffer Sr. & Jr., Masako Katsura, Welker Cochrain, and Raymond Ceulemans all just played three-cushion first before learning this. They started small and then they thought outside the box and learned their way from there. To be honest with you, that's like injecting steroids and "cheating" (to a certain extent). Although it is nice to get an idea from other players... still, I find that this game is a never ending saga to find new moves. Any naysayers disagree about how straight rail is not a great asset?? Look at our very own American: Sang Chun Lee (R.I.P.).

Now here's where the controversy starts: Torbjorn Blomdahl. YES, the guy's alien... period. I love his playing to death, no doubt and no sarcasm there. But he's the only exception to the rule. WHY?? Because he has spent miraculous amounts of time in other tournaments (I would suspect) either diagraming other's moves, talking to other pros on it, and/or spent thousands amounts of hours just going by feel and thinking outside the box on what to do. He DOES have a snooker history. But remember, what was before snooker and Carom? Answer: English Billiards.

So if any person were to still be alive from the past that would whoop everybody's ass with decent significant practice of any billiard sport or time while still maintaining their skills in tact, start pointing towards Walter Lindrum. :)

Just my humble honest opinion...
 
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I played a little 3 rail today as a diversion and gotta laugh at all this talk about working up from the easy 3C shots to the more difficult ones. There are no simple shots! Even the opening break is hard! :p

I seriously cannot even comprehend that like the top level pool players, the world class 3C players are not only putting runs together but playing position and safeties as well. I'm just trying to make one point sometime during the day before I go home and these guys are playing position for their next shot!
 
SlickRick_PCS said:
That's because your pool playing friend has already got accustomed to pool and how pool is played. Moreso, if he's an adult, you will find it more hard to teach him a game to, say, a young pupal. Like the saying goes: "You can't teach an old dog, new tricks." Not that it is entirely difficult to teach at an elder stage, but the concepts are not going to be there to become more advanced.

Let me explain about the first sentence in the previous paragraph:
In pocket billiards, one's objective is to hit the cueball into an object ball and pocket the object ball without pocketing the whitey. Pretty self-explainatory for us that know this game too well. Henceforth, it's an "everybody's" game... from bangers to pros.

Let's get into carom: anybody aiming to just "go for the kill" and flatout try out on 3-cushion will get the ol', "Let's just get Bob Byrne's book or anything that has three-cushion diagrams or whatever and let's take it from there". Well, seriously, did Maurice Vignaux, Willie Hoppe, Jake Shaffer Sr. & Jr., Masako Katsura, Welker Cochrain, and Raymond Ceulemans all just played three-cushion first before learning this. They started small and then they thought outside the box and learned their way from there. To be honest with you, that's like injecting steroids and "cheating" (to a certain extent). Although it is nice to get an idea from other players... still, I find that this game is a never ending saga to find new moves. Any naysayers disagree about how straight rail is not a great asset?? Look at our very own American: Sang Chun Lee (R.I.P.).

Now here's where the controversy starts: Torbjorn Blomdahl. YES, the guy's alien... period. I love his playing to death, no doubt and no sarcasm there. But he's the only exception to the rule. WHY?? Because he has spent miraculous amounts of time in other tournaments (I would suspect) either diagraming other's moves, talking to other pros on it, and/or spent thousands amounts of hours just going by feel and thinking outside the box on what to do. He DOES have a snooker history. But remember, what was before snooker and Carom? Answer: English Billiards.

So if any person were to still be alive from the past that would whoop everybody's ass with decent significant practice of any billiard sport or time while still maintaining their skills in tact, start pointing towards Walter Lindrum. :)

Just my humble honest opinion...
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Well then I have to ask the question: What's your straight rail average? Balkline?

English billiards? On a snooker table? Will do something for your 3C game? you lost me, sorry. Walter Lindrum would show up today and beat all the top 3c players because he had experience nursing balls on a snooker table in English billiards? I don't know, Rick, I think you might be stretching the point a bit, kind of alot.:confused:
 
eze123 said:
Well then I have to ask the question: What's your straight rail average? Balkline? English billiards? On a snooker table? Will it do something for your 3C game? you lost me, sorry.
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Averages?? In my town?? People that play in my region don't even know what the heck an average is nor do they even keep count (except for money :shakehead: ). As far as my averages that are even mentioned above, I wouldn't even say because I neglected to even care for it and just play for it. I have never played balkline (as I wish there was such so that I could be playing it for hours and hours) nor do I have even played on an English Table (mind you, they're not called snooker tables; which would be in Paradise in Corpus Christi and going by around next month or so). Playing a game which requires experience (3-cushion) is like a 1st grader learning Trigononmetry: The tike doesn't even know what the hell's going on! And he's just gonna get confused and confused and :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:. That's why a base needs to be formed on a pyramid where the tip is 3-cushion. I even told this to Xavier Gretilliat and he agrees with me as well.

eze123 said:
Walter Lindrum would show up today and beat all the top 3c players because he had experience nursing balls on a snooker table in English billiards? I don't know, Rick, I think you might be stretching the point a bit, kind of alot.
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I'll tell you what, eze123 (which reminds me: can you PM your first name to me because I want to be a little bit formal than this :) ). I will definately let these links do the talking and aleviate the stretching that might send across.
Lindrum's 100 Break
Lindrum giving an exhibition
Efren Reyes vs Walter Lindrum <--------- :p :D :dance:
 
Everyone will not agree with me, but I went from pool to 3-Cushion. No straight-rail, no small games. In fact, I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in the small games. I find them very boring. Yes, it definitely takes tremendous talent to compile large runs. That's great. But again, I have no interest. It takes great talent to sing operas also, but again, that's great for them, but I have no interest.

I fell in love with 3-cushion. I did not fall in love with straight-rail. And I think that showing pool players how to play straight-rail will mostly result in a big YAWN from most players. Obviously, this is not true of all players. But I have absolutely no problem teaching pool players how to play 3-cushion and I am able to get them to start scoring points quickly, unless of course the player cannot even handle a cue. Just my opinion. The important thing is to get pool players playing the carom games. If it is straight-rail, then so be it. If it is 3-cushion, then so be it. Let's work together, not argue amongst each other. United We Stand, Divided We Fall!
 
SlickRick_PCS said:
That's because your pool playing friend has already got accustomed to pool and how pool is played. Moreso, if he's an adult, you will find it more hard to teach him a game to, say, a young pupal. Like the saying goes: "You can't teach an old dog, new tricks." Not that it is entirely difficult to teach at an elder stage, but the concepts are not going to be there to become more advanced.

Let me explain about the first sentence in the previous paragraph:
In pocket billiards, one's objective is to hit the cueball into an object ball and pocket the object ball without pocketing the whitey. Pretty self-explainatory for us that know this game too well. Henceforth, it's an "everybody's" game... from bangers to pros.

Let's get into carom: anybody aiming to just "go for the kill" and flatout try out on 3-cushion will get the ol', "Let's just get Bob Byrne's book or anything that has three-cushion diagrams or whatever and let's take it from there". Well, seriously, did Maurice Vignaux, Willie Hoppe, Jake Shaffer Sr. & Jr., Masako Katsura, Welker Cochrain, and Raymond Ceulemans all just played three-cushion first before learning this. They started small and then they thought outside the box and learned their way from there. To be honest with you, that's like injecting steroids and "cheating" (to a certain extent). Although it is nice to get an idea from other players... still, I find that this game is a never ending saga to find new moves. Any naysayers disagree about how straight rail is not a great asset?? Look at our very own American: Sang Chun Lee (R.I.P.).

Now here's where the controversy starts: Torbjorn Blomdahl. YES, the guy's alien... period. I love his playing to death, no doubt and no sarcasm there. But he's the only exception to the rule. WHY?? Because he has spent miraculous amounts of time in other tournaments (I would suspect) either diagraming other's moves, talking to other pros on it, and/or spent thousands amounts of hours just going by feel and thinking outside the box on what to do. He DOES have a snooker history. But remember, what was before snooker and Carom? Answer: English Billiards.

So if any person were to still be alive from the past that would whoop everybody's ass with decent significant practice of any billiard sport or time while still maintaining their skills in tact, start pointing towards Walter Lindrum. :)

Just my humble honest opinion...
Click to expand...

I gotta go with eze here. I grant you that if I wanted to be a world class level 3C player, and if I were 16 again, I'd take your advice (and Ceulemans') and start with the small games to get the solid foundation. But the vast vast majority of potential carom players are not in this situation. We know we're never going to be world class - we'd just like to be decent, or maybe even good, recreational players and have fun. I think we can achieve that without the small game apprenticeship, especially if we've walked a few thousand miles around a pool table. The 3C game in the USA needs more players.
 
jimshovak said:
... I went from pool to 3-Cushion. No straight-rail, no small games. In fact, I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in the small games. I find them very boring.
...I fell in love with 3-cushion. I did not fall in love with straight-rail...!
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Well said. I also went straight to 3c, knowing already where whitey was going, I feel skipping small games was largely w/ out consequenc to me.

As Rich93said though, were I 16 and desired to be and elite player...might be differeent.
 
jimshovak said:
Everyone will not agree with me, but I went from pool to 3-Cushion. No straight-rail, no small games. In fact, I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in the small games. I find them very boring. Yes, it definitely takes tremendous talent to compile large runs. That's great. But again, I have no interest. It takes great talent to sing operas also, but again, that's great for them, but I have no interest.

I fell in love with 3-cushion. I did not fall in love with straight-rail. And I think that showing pool players how to play straight-rail will mostly result in a big YAWN from most players. Obviously, this is not true of all players. But I have absolutely no problem teaching pool players how to play 3-cushion and I am able to get them to start scoring points quickly, unless of course the player cannot even handle a cue. Just my opinion. The important thing is to get pool players playing the carom games. If it is straight-rail, then so be it. If it is 3-cushion, then so be it. Let's work together, not argue amongst each other. United We Stand, Divided We Fall!
Click to expand...
Jim

I have the same opinion that the "small" games are boring to me as well. But you know what? Most people that know nothing about 3C or pool for that matter think the game is boring. As a matter of fact I tend to nod off watching the game even though I love playing it.

I think the original question on this thread is how to get into the fast track learning 3C. Learning sound fundamentals is always the best way IMO. That's not to suggest I think nobody should even attempt a 3C shot until they've run 50 caroms. What I'm suggesting is that caroms or my preference 1 rail should be a portion of a solid practice/learning routine. After all in 3C you must make caroms. If you don't know how to do that you're and the excuse will be 3C is either too boring or too hard and you lose a student.

The long road to success in this sport is to just go out an bang the balls around as they lay. Certain shots patterns should be set up and practiced over and over paying close attention to everything that happens. Yep that's boring too, but unless you eliminate variables by setting up specific shots, the learning curve will be a long one.
 
Absolutely. I would highly recommend (if someone is interested) to practice straight rail and the small games as well. But I would be a very bad teacher since I stink at them. For 3-cushion: you MUST do exactly what you already said: set up specific shots and MASTER them along with the variations of the shots. The other part is adjusting to the different table conditions. That is something that comes from experience and is a very difficult thing for me at the moment. But I will overcome.

Regimented and systematic practice is crucial. Absolutely.
 
I would say, if 3C seems very abstract and difficult to you , learn two systems: the basic corner 5 diamond system and the plus system. Set those shots up, learn them up and down, and practice with the systems and you'll quickly realize that you need to make adjustments. The systems only work if you go rail first, or hit like half ball or so, very thick or thin hits will change the angle that you think the ball goes into the rail, it's deceptive. But those systems work very well as basic guidelines, that's why they're 'systems'.
 
eze123 said:
I would say, if 3C seems very abstract and difficult to you , learn two systems: the basic corner 5 diamond system and the plus system. Set those shots up, learn them up and down, and practice with the systems and you'll quickly realize that you need to make adjustments. The systems only work if you go rail first, or hit like half ball or so, very thick or thin hits will change the angle that you think the ball goes into the rail, it's deceptive. But those systems work very well as basic guidelines, that's why they're 'systems'.
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Good advice.

I'd like to add another easy system. Learn to clock the CB. In order to do this you need to calibrate your english. In other words you need to determine, while shooting across the short rail, how much spin (or where to hit the CB) is required for the CB to return 1 diamond, 2 diamonds and 3 diamonds from your starting diamond. By the way 3 diamonds is a little difficult. Once you have that down pat many shots can can be made simply by hitting 1/2 ball and clocking the CB accordingly. If third rail contact is the first diamond use one diamond spin with half ball hit. Great for short angle shots and little easier than the 5 system. Also experiment with clocking and using the tangent lines off the first OB. Deadly accurate for drop in's. Little Joe's DVD on CB control gives a great lesson on the pool side of this and the use of tangent lines. I think his site is pooliq.net ??
 
Caudron is a master of the small games and is one of the best players in the world, but I don't think Blomdahl, Sang Lee, Sayginer, Jaspers, and many other phenomenal three cushion players are considered anywhere near the top ten in the other games.

Three cushion is different. Straight rail players of course tend to be masters of balkline, one rail, etc... but it only translates so much to three cushion billiards.

Give any truly talented pool player Byrnes first two books and a year of practice and he can play three cushion fine without learning the other games.

I honestly don't know if Sanchez is considered a top player at the small games; it seems like he was trained early at billiards but I don't know if he's ever won a significant title at straight rail, one rail,etc...
 
He has a couple Junior titles in free game and 47/2 according to his website
Categor?a Junior
3 Campeonatos de Espa?a modalidad librre.
3 Campeonatos de Espa?a modalidad cuadro 47/2.

Important question is: what's going on in your avatar pic?
 
Fredric Caudron, Eddy Leppens, Paul DeBrujin, Peter DeBacker, Nobuaki Kobayashi, Ludo Dielis, Martin Horn, Esteve Mata, and Pierre Soumange all do well in the small games and are not to shaby at three cushion.
 
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