The biggest misconception that we hear or read about is that "all ivory is ILLEGAL

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
The biggest misconception that we hear or read about is that "all ivory is ILLEGAL

I have recieved a few pm's on Ivory laws and how does customs know if it is ivory or bone .

The biggest misconception that we hear or read about is that "all ivory is ILLEGAL to own, buy or sell".

a simple summary of the INTERNATIONAL and U.S.FISH & WILDLIFE laws which regulate the commerce of ivory, which in turn is regulated by C.I.T.E.S. (Convention on the International Trade in endangered Species) and the 'Marine Mammal Protection Act'. C.I.T.E.S. is an organization that was formed in 1973 as a multinational protege of the United Nations to meet every 2 years to review data and set quotas to maintain levels of protection on species of both plant and animal. Here's what they say on regulation of ivories:

AFRICAN ELEPHANT: This is on the C.I.T.E.S. endangered species list. The importation, selling and buying of this ivory IS NOT ALLOWED INTERNATIONALLY. It cannot be exported or imported to the U.S. and most of the countries delegated to the U.N., BUT... it is LEGAL TO OWN, SELL, BUY, or SHIP within the boundaries of the U.S. and there are NO PERMITS or REGISTRATION requirements! *The majority of african elephant ivory is "old estate" ivory that was brought into this country since its' inception.

ASIAN ELEPHANT : Also on the C.I.T.E.S. Endangered species list and is ILLEGAL to buy, trade, sell, import or export anywhere internationally or INTERSTATE within the U.S.

MAMMOTH/MASTEDON: These are two distinctively different animals for one thing but the ivory is difficult to distinguish between the two. These mammals are extinct and were on this earth 10 to 40,000 years ago so this ivory is COMPLETELY UNRESTRICTED! Distinguishing the difference between Mammoth/Mastedon ivory and Elephant ivory is determined by the angles where the cross grain lines bisect each other. Angles greater than 120% indicate elephant ivory and angles less than 90% indicate Mammoth/Mastedon ivory. Other distinctions include the color of the inner layers of the ivory and the outer layer referred to as the 'bark'.

HIPPO/WARTHOG: These species are protected but not endangered. Because of over population and a danger to humans, these animals are legally hunted by regulation for 'cull' purposes. Permits and documentation are required for importing or exporting this ivory but once it is in the U.S., NO PERMITS OR DOCUMENTS ARE NECESSARY to buy or sell interstate.

SPERM WHALE: An endagered species and regulated since 1973 by The Marine Mammal Protection Act. NO IMPORTATION/EXPORTATION PERIOD! Interstate sales of REGISTERED PRE-ACT teeth with SCRIMSHAW is allowed under a special Federal Permit. Unregistered pre-act teeth can NO LONGER BE REGISTERED and CANNOT BE TRANSPORTED across interstate lines for commercial purposes. THEY CAN BE SOLD 'INTRASTATE' so long as STATE LAW does not prohibit it!

ANTIQUE (100 YRS +) Scrimshaw Teeth can be sold Interstate.



BOWHEAD WHALE: Protected Period! It is LEGAL TO SELL via an exemption allowing ESKIMOS to hunt whales and then sell their crafts made from them.

WALRUS: They have been regulated since 1972 under the Marine Mammal Protection Act and reguated by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service. The ivory that pre-dates the 12-21-1972 Law which bears the Alaska State walrus registration tags or post-law ivory that HAS BEEN CARVED OR SCRIMSHAWED BY AN ALASKAN NATIVE (Eskimo) is legal to buy , sell, and own. Any ivory that was/is obtained after 12-21-1972 IS NOT LEGAL TO BUY OR SELL UNLESS" both parties are Eskimo... BUT, it is LEGAL TO OWN. Permits are required(as to the laws above) to export the ivory out of the U.S.

FOSSIL WALRUS IVORY: No restictions. It is LEGAL TO BUY, SELL AND OWN anywhere in the U.S. The exportation of this ivory DOES require a permit.

THE ABOVE INCLUDES ANY AND ALL PARTS OF SUCH ANIMALS STATED

How to tell if it's Ivory or Plastic?

The best way to tell whether your item is not plastic and is in fact ivory is with the Pin Test. This is done by heating a pin until it's red hot and placing it on the item where you don't mind putting a small burn mark. The smell that the ivory gives off is similar to the smell when your dentist has a drill on your tooth. If this is done with plastic or any other man-made material you will not experience the hot Pin Test. You can also use a UV light, which will make the ivory fluoresce to a light blue color, while synthetic materials, instead, show up darker.



Now that you've eliminated the possibility that your item is plastic you have to determine whether it's Elephant Ivory or some other bone?

The best way to tell if the your item is elephant ivory is the characteristic of the cross graining or criss-cross growth patterns distinctively found only in elephant ivory. No other mammalian ivory has this characteristic. These growth marks or cross-hatchings are called Schreger Lines. Schreger lines can be divided into two categories. The highly visible found on the outer portion of the elephant tusk and the fainter lines that are found near the root or the inner portion of the tusk. This explains why sometimes the growth patterns are not very visible. Seeing the grain is also dependent on whether the ivory was cut out against the growth grains. The growth patterns run the length of the ivory tusk. The best way to explain it is imagining a piece of wood. When you cut wood in a perpendicular fashion relative to the tree trunk, you will see the growth rings of the tree. However when you cut in the same plain as the length of the tree trunk then the grain is no longer as visible. This is the same concept of the visibility of elephant ivory cross-grains, sometimes you see it and sometimes you don't. Usually you have to look at the width or thickness of the piece to see any cross-graining. However sometimes the piece was extracted out against the grain and the growth patterns are highly visible throughout the piece.


THE TEST:
The tried and true method to test ivory is the famous "hot pin test". This method is used by beginners and experts alike. Because true ivory is virtually impenetrable with heat, this is a good test and will
not damage the item if it is "real". Take a pin, large needle, or better yet a large straightened out
safety pin, and heat the tip RED-HOT. Poke the item somewhere that it will not show too bad (I
use the netsuke hole). If it is real ivory, it will NOT penetrate and only leave a tiny tiny mark. If it is a resin, it will enter the item and produce a little crater around the hole. Now the big test… smell the "smoke" that comes of the test as you are poking it. If it is real ivory, it will have that unmistakable
smell of the dentist's office when you had that root canal (stomach turning). It smells like burning
tooth (because it IS). If it smells like burning plastic, it IS. Now, bone is also resistant to heat, but
not as much as ivory. The smell is less (or hardly at all) and is different than that of burning tooth.
Most bone carvings are "capped" on the top and bottom as all bones are hollow. If an item is
carved thinly enough to be carved from the wall of the bone (usually not thicker than 3/4") it may
appear to be ivory. But, bone is absolutely free of grain and will ALWAYS have little "pock marks" (sometimes brown and sometimes not) in it where the marrow or blood was. You may have to use a loupe to see these pock marks. So in conclusion, if it resists heat, smells like crap, and has any grain (especially crosshatching), you have the real deal. Do a little experimenting with items you know are
fake and real and see the difference. After you get used to the difference,
 
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I have recieved a few pm's on Ivory laws and how does customs know if it is ivory or bone .

The biggest misconception that we hear or read about is that "all ivory is ILLEGAL to own, buy or sell".

I have put together a simple summary of the INTERNATIONAL and U.S.FISH & WILDLIFE laws which regulate the commerce of ivory, which in turn is regulated by C.I.T.E.S. (Convention on the International Trade in endangered Species) and the 'Marine Mammal Protection Act'. C.I.T.E.S. is an organization that was formed in 1973 as a multinational protege of the United Nations to meet every 2 years to review data and set quotas to maintain levels of protection on species of both plant and animal. Here's what they say on regulation of ivories:

AFRICAN ELEPHANT: This is on the C.I.T.E.S. endangered species list. The importation, selling and buying of this ivory IS NOT ALLOWED INTERNATIONALLY. It cannot be exported or imported to the U.S. and most of the countries delegated to the U.N., BUT... it is LEGAL TO OWN, SELL, BUY, or SHIP within the boundaries of the U.S. and there are NO PERMITS or REGISTRATION requirements! *The majority of african elephant ivory is "old estate" ivory that was brought into this country since its' inception.

ASIAN ELEPHANT : Also on the C.I.T.E.S. Endangered species list and is ILLEGAL to buy, trade, sell, import or export anywhere internationally or INTERSTATE within the U.S.

MAMMOTH/MASTEDON: These are two distinctively different animals for one thing but the ivory is difficult to distinguish between the two. These mammals are extinct and were on this earth 10 to 40,000 years ago so this ivory is COMPLETELY UNRESTRICTED! Distinguishing the difference between Mammoth/Mastedon ivory and Elephant ivory is determined by the angles where the cross grain lines bisect each other. Angles greater than 120% indicate elephant ivory and angles less than 90% indicate Mammoth/Mastedon ivory. Other distinctions include the color of the inner layers of the ivory and the outer layer referred to as the 'bark'.

HIPPO/WARTHOG: These species are protected but not endangered. Because of over population and a danger to humans, these animals are legally hunted by regulation for 'cull' purposes. Permits and documentation are required for importing or exporting this ivory but once it is in the U.S., NO PERMITS OR DOCUMENTS ARE NECESSARY to buy or sell interstate.

SPERM WHALE: An endagered species and regulated since 1973 by The Marine Mammal Protection Act. NO IMPORTATION/EXPORTATION PERIOD! Interstate sales of REGISTERED PRE-ACT teeth with SCRIMSHAW is allowed under a special Federal Permit. Unregistered pre-act teeth can NO LONGER BE REGISTERED and CANNOT BE TRANSPORTED across interstate lines for commercial purposes. THEY CAN BE SOLD 'INTRASTATE' so long as STATE LAW does not prohibit it!

ANTIQUE (100 YRS +) Scrimshaw Teeth can be sold Interstate.



BOWHEAD WHALE: Protected Period! It is LEGAL TO SELL via an exemption allowing ESKIMOS to hunt whales and then sell their crafts made from them.

WALRUS: They have been regulated since 1972 under the Marine Mammal Protection Act and reguated by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service. The ivory that pre-dates the 12-21-1972 Law which bears the Alaska State walrus registration tags or post-law ivory that HAS BEEN CARVED OR SCRIMSHAWED BY AN ALASKAN NATIVE (Eskimo) is legal to buy , sell, and own. Any ivory that was/is obtained after 12-21-1972 IS NOT LEGAL TO BUY OR SELL UNLESS" both parties are Eskimo... BUT, it is LEGAL TO OWN. Permits are required(as to the laws above) to export the ivory out of the U.S.

FOSSIL WALRUS IVORY: No restictions. It is LEGAL TO BUY, SELL AND OWN anywhere in the U.S. The exportation of this ivory DOES require a permit.

THE ABOVE INCLUDES ANY AND ALL PARTS OF SUCH ANIMALS STATED

How to tell if it's Ivory or Plastic?

The best way to tell whether your item is not plastic and is in fact ivory is with the Pin Test. This is done by heating a pin until it's red hot and placing it on the item where you don't mind putting a small burn mark. The smell that the ivory gives off is similar to the smell when your dentist has a drill on your tooth. If this is done with plastic or any other man-made material you will not experience the hot Pin Test. You can also use a UV light, which will make the ivory fluoresce to a light blue color, while synthetic materials, instead, show up darker.



Now that you've eliminated the possibility that your item is plastic you have to determine whether it's Elephant Ivory or some other bone?

The best way to tell if the your item is elephant ivory is the characteristic of the cross graining or criss-cross growth patterns distinctively found only in elephant ivory. No other mammalian ivory has this characteristic. These growth marks or cross-hatchings are called Schreger Lines. Schreger lines can be divided into two categories. The highly visible found on the outer portion of the elephant tusk and the fainter lines that are found near the root or the inner portion of the tusk. This explains why sometimes the growth patterns are not very visible. Seeing the grain is also dependent on whether the ivory was cut out against the growth grains. The growth patterns run the length of the ivory tusk. The best way to explain it is imagining a piece of wood. When you cut wood in a perpendicular fashion relative to the tree trunk, you will see the growth rings of the tree. However when you cut in the same plain as the length of the tree trunk then the grain is no longer as visible. This is the same concept of the visibility of elephant ivory cross-grains, sometimes you see it and sometimes you don't. Usually you have to look at the width or thickness of the piece to see any cross-graining. However sometimes the piece was extracted out against the grain and the growth patterns are highly visible throughout the piece.


THE TEST:
The tried and true method to test ivory is the famous "hot pin test". This method is used by beginners and experts alike. Because true ivory is virtually impenetrable with heat, this is a good test and will
not damage the item if it is "real". Take a pin, large needle, or better yet a large straightened out
safety pin, and heat the tip RED-HOT. Poke the item somewhere that it will not show too bad (I
use the netsuke hole). If it is real ivory, it will NOT penetrate and only leave a tiny tiny mark. If it is a resin, it will enter the item and produce a little crater around the hole.
Now the big test… smell the "smoke" that comes of the test as you are poking it. If it is real ivory, it will have that unmistakable
smell of the dentist's office when you had that root canal (stomach turning). It smells like burning
tooth (because it IS). If it smells like burning plastic, it IS. Now, bone is also resistant to heat, but
not as much as ivory. The smell is less (or hardly at all) and is different than that of burning tooth.
Most bone carvings are "capped" on the top and bottom as all bones are hollow. If an item is
carved thinly enough to be carved from the wall of the bone (usually not thicker than 3/4") it may
appear to be ivory. But, bone is absolutely free of grain and will ALWAYS have little "pock marks" (sometimes brown and sometimes not) in it where the marrow or blood was. You may have to use a loupe to see these pock marks. So in conclusion, if it resists heat, smells like crap, and has any grain (especially crosshatching), you have the real deal. Do a little experimenting with items you know are
fake and real and see the difference. After you get used to the difference,



Mike the information you put here is good to go, and accurate according to the research I have done. But when you apply this information to pool cues I would not recommend using the method you outlined for testing or I would at least put an exclaimer on your comments. If some one follows the instructions I bolded above it could be disastrous to a nice pool cue!!

You just never know how someone people may interpret your comments!!:smile:
 
ivory

Guys I love pool cues with or without ivory , And i dont want to take the chance of having one of my cue being seized by anyone.
Anyway here it is black and white.

MMike
 
Tell that to whatever customs authorities confiscate your LEGAL ivory laden cue. Tell them the law is on your side, then sit and wait as they delay your cue just because you pissed them off.
 
So basically customs (who really don't care about giving confiscated items the white gloves treatment) have to test anything that looks like Ivory in a way that will ultimately damage a cue, now whether they find plastic, legal ivory (or whatever) they will still have damaged your cue which will then be in need of repair and if you send it out of country for repair you'll have to go through customs all over again and hope they don't decide to be dicks on its way back.
 
customs

I am not a customs agent, I dont know the answer to your question.
I only posted this so hopfully no one will loose a nice cue.
Other than that it is a risk that ( I ) am not willing to take.


A black light (long wave UV) light, if properly used, can help separate out plastics. In general, ivory reflects the full spectrum and appears a bright blue when viewed in a totally dark area. Plastic on the other hand absorbs part of the spectrum and appears a dull blue or some off-color. While useful in separating out plastics, it doesn't prove that the bright blue object is ivory, for other substances can also appear bright blue.

MMike
 
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Once it has been turned into inlays and put into cues how do the enforcement people determine the source of the ivory or how do you document the that source? I'm all for protecting the animals but the government has a habit of just grabbing everything and then sorting things out. And they don't do the best job of taking care of the material while in their custody either.
 
Hey Forum Member...."Grantstew....You Out There??????"

Morturay Mike,

Thanks for a great summarization. There's a forum member who has rebuked me several times for educating forum members about ivory bans and what's exactly permissible. He dismisses this as pure nonsense and refuses to acknowledge that this is based on law and fact....and then the fellow slanders me on the forum for trying to let others about the "potential" risks of buying cues with ivory from sellers outside the US.

I look at it this way....as long as a buyer knows what the circumstances and facts are, then anything that happens thereafter is really on them. But to incur risks unknowingly, or not try to take steps to ensure a problem free purchase, well, no buyer should have to learn about ivory the hard way....if you catch my drift.

Thanks for the educational posting.
 
The problem is, custom agents are highly uneducated and not well trained to correctly identify materials like ivory. Many of them aren't trained to recognize ivory from plastic, faux ivory, or any other white materials. They have a handbook or guide that teaches them about what kinds of items are likely to have decorative ivory, and pool cues is on their list. So, when an agent finds a pool cue, he's thinking ivory..............then he sees white ferruls and inlays......................bingo!
The other problem is that these agents aren't familiar enough with cues enough to know that for ivory to be used in a cue as a ferrel or an inlay, it has to have been aged for XXX amount of years. This makes any ivory found in cues old enough to have been harvested long before the ivory ban went into effect.
And here's the scariest part, customs and fish and game are not responsible for damage done to your property during the process of proving or disproving wether or not a substance is ivory or not. Literally they have the right to suspect a plastic star inlay as being ivory, taking a boxcutter knife to remove the inlay, discovering the material was in fact plactic, and handing you back your butchered up cue with not so much as an apoligy.

dave
 
The problem is, custom agents are highly uneducated and not well trained to correctly identify materials like ivory. Many of them aren't trained to recognize ivory from plastic, faux ivory, or any other white materials. They have a handbook or guide that teaches them about what kinds of items are likely to have decorative ivory, and pool cues is on their list. So, when an agent finds a pool cue, he's thinking ivory..............then he sees white ferruls and inlays......................bingo!
The other problem is that these agents aren't familiar enough with cues enough to know that for ivory to be used in a cue as a ferrel or an inlay, it has to have been aged for XXX amount of years. This makes any ivory found in cues old enough to have been harvested long before the ivory ban went into effect.
And here's the scariest part, customs and fish and game are not responsible for damage done to your property during the process of proving or disproving wether or not a substance is ivory or not. Literally they have the right to suspect a plastic star inlay as being ivory, taking a boxcutter knife to remove the inlay, discovering the material was in fact plactic, and handing you back your butchered up cue with not so much as an apoligy.

dave
Is there any record of this actually happening? You say "Literally they have the right ", how do you know they have these rights or did you just make this up?
 
custom

hi dave
Its a personal option this thread is only to educate.

Bavafongoul Hi
Yes this is a subject many people want to close their eyes to.
I really havent had anyone give me a tough time on this topic.
Thank you.
Anyway its all in black and white.
MMike
 
To those who may not live near the borders and may not know the powers that the customs agents possess,

They can and will on occasion disassemble your vehicle, down to the frame or less, find nothing and say, "OK, you can go."

Don't F with customs
 
Is there any record of this actually happening? You say "Literally they have the right ", how do you know they have these rights or did you just make this up?
I talked to a buyer from another country who told me stories about some of the cues he tried to import with Ivory in them. He said they came with inlays literally dug out, butt plates sawed off, ferrules sawed off and so on. It was his countries customs that did that to his cues. Needless to say he was trying to get a quote on a non Ivory inlaid cue.
 
Now I can't get rid of the sickening image of a red-hot pin being poked into an ivory joint. :barf: :barf:

Thanks, MortuaryMike.
 
Tell that to whatever customs authorities confiscate your LEGAL ivory laden cue. Tell them the law is on your side, then sit and wait as they delay your cue just because you pissed them off.

If you're talking about elephant ivory that's not what I understood from the OP. From what Mike posted I got that both African and Asian elephant ivory is illegal to import or export. So even if the ivory in your cue was legal, if it's going through customs you have essentially turned it into illegal ivory.

What I'd like to know is how to tell the difference between African and Asian ivory. From what was posted it appears that once in the U.S. African ivory is essentially legal to buy, sell, transport. But with Asian ivory it appears illegal to take across state lines. How do you tell the difference?

Also, does that mean that elephant ivory, even if it entered the U.S. illegally, is legal once here as long as it stays here? That's sort of the way I read it.
 
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