The Biggest Problem With Pool

8-ball bernie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
this post may be long, abstract, but in my opinion happens to be a glaring and highly important and overlooked issue facing the serious pool player in america.
when a player walks into a typical pool hall establishment in the u.s.a. in 2005/2006 they will notice that the pool hall caters to the typical "i can't play to save my life/i'm on a date/pool is fun player.
which means that the cloth is worn, filthy filled with grease, and powder, the balls are old and pitted, and slow, the cushions are "funny/wrong" and all the equipment is off to say the least.
worse yet, the music is horrible and BLASTING the lighting above the table is carless, and the entire establishment reeks of "we do not care, most of you can't play anyway"
there seems to be two different types of pool halls in the usa, before the release of "the color of money", and post the color of money.
the pool halls before the color of money are filled with fat old bald men smoking stinky cigars, who have been at the same place since they were 7 years old, there is no music, men only and it is depressing and boring.
the pool halls post color of money are disco clubs, and night clubs that happen to have some pool tables in them somewhere, they are filled with loud blaring inappropiate music at rock concert volume, and feature dim sexy lighting for romantic couples on their first date.
in other words, YOU CAN'T WIN you simply can not win. if you play golf, the non-pro vs the PGA have everything the same, the course, clubs, and everything else is identical except the talent. people who play golf WANT to improve and all of them take lessons. there is no blaring music, or crazy distractions.
if someone wants to learn how to be a brain surgeoun they would do it in a quiet classroom and take it seriously. if someone want to learn anything or take anything seriously in this world, they would do it quietly, with care and respect.
to sum up what i'm saying, i am saying it doesn't matter if pool becomes huge or not, it matters that all current pool halls go out of business, close down and fail on there ass. then and only then can we re-build the pool hall, to fit the way it should be, in order for healthy growth. pool halls should have two clients ~~ players that are very good to excellent, or players who aren't good but want lessons. let's get rid of ball banging daters who go to pool halls for the music and food, for them i suggest going to a resturant and then to a club with music, stay out of the pool halls and stop ruining a great sport.
i as an ipt member find it harder and harder to get practice in due to all of the issues mentioned above. and as far as put it out of your mind, and play pool? why should i? it's time to reboot pool in american's minds, and return the game back to the "players" a hybrid between the old and new would work well for me, for instance, a pool hall with perfect condition tables, cloth etc. etc. that only plays soft classical or soft beatles music. they serve red wine, fine cigars, with big air filters so non-smokers can breath, host straight pool 3-cushion and 8-ball tournaments, and have many qualified certified pool instructers on hand, for people who want to learn. the pool halls should also have movie theatre arena seating with electronic score boards. in other words, let's get down and back to where pool should be going~~~ into a serious room with soft nice music with women that geniunely want to learn, and a room where pool is the main thing, not the music or the food, or the flirting. i know there will be lots of comments, so be it, i will not be a player in the current world. i shall give the ipt my best shot, but if the aura of the current day pool room doesn't change, then as a serious player, i shall bow out gracefully, Bernie Friend. IPT player since 2005
 
Bernie, Bernie, Bernie

There isn't a pool hall in the country that can make it on table time alone. In your post, you have virtually dissed the only folks that make it possible. Ball bangers, wanna be's, couples on a date, sports fans, and pleasure players.
You might as well pack it up right now and quit wasting your time. Suck what you can out of the IPT cause you ain't gonna win it anywhere else buddy. Sad fact of life. Table time won't pay 1/4 of the rent. Sorry, but that's the truth.
Purdman:(
 
Purdman said:
There isn't a pool hall in the country that can make it on table time alone. In your post, you have virtually dissed the only folks that make it possible. Ball bangers, wanna be's, couples on a date, sports fans, and pleasure players.
You might as well pack it up right now and quit wasting your time. Suck what you can out of the IPT cause you ain't gonna win it anywhere else buddy. Sad fact of life. Table time won't pay 1/4 of the rent. Sorry, but that's the truth.
Purdman:(


I agree ,In a few paragraphs He virtually killed off the last vestiges of the pool scene gene pool . The only perfect place to play pool or organization to promote our sport has yet to be invented ! When I go out to shoot it dont matter if Mozart is on the jukebox or the Motor City Madman because I just want a decent game . It dont matter if the people are in coattails or jeans as long as they have some respect for the game and the people playing it . If all those other things are a nuisance then your mind dont stand a chance in hell of finding the "zone" let alone stay in it.

Ratchet - Build it ,They will come !! It's just that no one seems to know what "it" is ???
 
Purdman is right. I would say that at least 80% of the business that the pool rooms around here get is from ball bangers and people that really aren't too serious about pool. They are just there to enjoy themselves. Would you rather have a pool room with loud music and ball bangers or would you rather have no pool room at all??? Without the bangers there would be no pool rooms. Even most of the people that play in my league are there just to have a good relaxing time. They don't play 2 hours a day or more like I do. The only time they go play is during league night and that is satisfying enough to them. My advice is that if you really hate going to a pool room that bad, save up your money and buy a pool table for your house. That is where I do 90% of my practicing. It's quiet and comfortable and you don't have to worry about much of anything. It would be nice to have a real upscale pool room with nothing but serious players walking around and brand new 9' gold crown tables everywhere with perfect cloth and rails, perfect lighting, plenty of seating, etc. but like purdman said, there is no way that place would be able to make it on table time alone. They would go under real fast. Good luck with the IPT.
 
You must be kidding. The ball-bangers and the not-so-serious ARE pool! The serious players are not the ones bringing big business to the pool rooms.

Would you rid all games and sports of those that neither excel nor wish to?

Pool needs ball-bangers, and if your tour's proprietor is successful in his venture, look for a lot more ball-bangers, because KT will get more people eager to try their hand at pool than ever before. If you don't think a dramatic growth in the number of casual players is good for pool, I suggest you have Kevin Trudeau explain the point to you when you see him.

The biggest problem with pool in the USA is that there aren't nearly enough ball-bangers and other casual players in the pool halls!
 
It would be nice to have pool centers

It would be nice to have pool centers much more along the lines of a bowling alley than a pool hall. Have the bar segregated in a separate room so people of all ages can play pool and have tables set up for people of all abilities. Then have a couple of real snooker tables, some nice nine footers and maybe a monster 6X12 for members only in a separate area.

Waaaagh! I just woke up. Nice dream anyway. The problem is that you have to survive long enough for people to accept that pool can be a family activity and start considering it a sport. None of us may live that long. Back to the pool hall for me!

Hu
 
Bernie:

I have to agree with the other posters... While reading your description, I saw women running for the doors, ball-bangers losing interest and pool halls sagging into depression.

The problem is that serious pool players drink seltzer water and forget about supporting the bar (oh, yes you do!). Serious players save their money for table time and don't want to drink when practicing hard.

I agree that the party atmosphere makes it difficult to practice during peak hours, but that is the time for enjoyment and when I have the most fun. If I want to get serious practice time in, I go early, even in the morning or on weekends when nobody else is in the place... then you can practice in peace.

As pool players, we almost have it ALL right now... billiards, beer, babes, and (blasting) music. So don't complain too much. These bangers are also the ones turning on their TVs to boost the ratings of IPT and other events, thus boosting paychecks for players. You really want to cut them out? I think you should rethink this.
 
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Pool Halls are about gone?

About a month ago I was playing this gut and going into the 11th hour, the music was loud and getting to me. I went to the bartender and asked him to lower the music as I couldn't even think. The bartender looked at me as if I had just fallen off a melon tuck and explained that the big fat sweathog at the bar had spent probaly $40.00 in there already and liked loud music.
When we quit, I had won about $900. I payed the $140.00 in time and tipped the other waitress $20.00 and told the bartender that the sweathog who liked loud music would leave his tip.
The problem we face with most of the pool rooms around here is that management can't see 6 feet past the bar. That is one reason that pool in San Antonio Tx. really sucks.
The other reason is that in this town, we have a table mechanic who is the absolute worst to ever touch a table . Iknow he does it on purpose. He takes no pride in his work.
To follow the cue ball in this town, one needs a running start like Happy Gilmore.
I try not to let it geet to me and just keep my opinion to myself. U wouldn't want the ***** to get upset.
 
You Have Got To Be Kidding

8-ball bernie said:
this post may be long, abstract, but in my opinion happens to be a glaring and highly important and overlooked issue facing the serious pool player in america.
when a player walks into a typical pool hall establishment in the u.s.a. in 2005/2006 they will notice that the pool hall caters to the typical "i can't play to save my life/i'm on a date/pool is fun player.
which means that the cloth is worn, filthy filled with grease, and powder, the balls are old and pitted, and slow, the cushions are "funny/wrong" and all the equipment is off to say the least.
worse yet, the music is horrible and BLASTING the lighting above the table is carless, and the entire establishment reeks of "we do not care, most of you can't play anyway"
there seems to be two different types of pool halls in the usa, before the release of "the color of money", and post the color of money.
the pool halls before the color of money are filled with fat old bald men smoking stinky cigars, who have been at the same place since they were 7 years old, there is no music, men only and it is depressing and boring.
the pool halls post color of money are disco clubs, and night clubs that happen to have some pool tables in them somewhere, they are filled with loud blaring inappropiate music at rock concert volume, and feature dim sexy lighting for romantic couples on their first date.
in other words, YOU CAN'T WIN you simply can not win. if you play golf, the non-pro vs the PGA have everything the same, the course, clubs, and everything else is identical except the talent. people who play golf WANT to improve and all of them take lessons. there is no blaring music, or crazy distractions.
if someone wants to learn how to be a brain surgeoun they would do it in a quiet classroom and take it seriously. if someone want to learn anything or take anything seriously in this world, they would do it quietly, with care and respect.
to sum up what i'm saying, i am saying it doesn't matter if pool becomes huge or not, it matters that all current pool halls go out of business, close down and fail on there ass. then and only then can we re-build the pool hall, to fit the way it should be, in order for healthy growth. pool halls should have two clients ~~ players that are very good to excellent, or players who aren't good but want lessons. let's get rid of ball banging daters who go to pool halls for the music and food, for them i suggest going to a resturant and then to a club with music, stay out of the pool halls and stop ruining a great sport.
i as an ipt member find it harder and harder to get practice in due to all of the issues mentioned above. and as far as put it out of your mind, and play pool? why should i? it's time to reboot pool in american's minds, and return the game back to the "players" a hybrid between the old and new would work well for me, for instance, a pool hall with perfect condition tables, cloth etc. etc. that only plays soft classical or soft beatles music. they serve red wine, fine cigars, with big air filters so non-smokers can breath, host straight pool 3-cushion and 8-ball tournaments, and have many qualified certified pool instructers on hand, for people who want to learn. the pool halls should also have movie theatre arena seating with electronic score boards. in other words, let's get down and back to where pool should be going~~~ into a serious room with soft nice music with women that geniunely want to learn, and a room where pool is the main thing, not the music or the food, or the flirting. i know there will be lots of comments, so be it, i will not be a player in the current world. i shall give the ipt my best shot, but if the aura of the current day pool room doesn't change, then as a serious player, i shall bow out gracefully, Bernie Friend. IPT player since 2005

AS A POOL ROOM OWNER I HAVE TO SAY, THOSE ARE THE STUPIDEST, MOST IGNORANT AND MOST UNINFORMED COMMENTS I HAVE READ ON THIS FORUM.
 
I have a small 8 table room and I have xm radio playing blues all day and soft rock at night. No booze allowed, I have tried to keep it a real pool hall for 12 yrs and it just wont work anymore. Day time is for the serious players here, With out my kids at night I would be out of business fast. They know I don`t put up with any crap and when one person gets canned everyone on the table gets canned, forever, stops a lot of slamming balls around. We use a break cloth under the cue ball to save wear and tear. When they get to loud I give-em hell on the microphone then everybody knows to be cool. It cost a player 50 cents every time they knock a ball off the table.

I know thats enough!!!!!!!!!!
 
nfty9er said:
AS A POOL ROOM OWNER I HAVE TO SAY, THOSE ARE THE STUPIDEST, MOST IGNORANT AND MOST UNINFORMED COMMENTS I HAVE READ ON THIS FORUM.

Hey Bud, we are pool players. We might be stupid and ignorant, but I take great exception to the word uninformed. You have been called out on the field of Honor!
 
Bernie,

I doubt what you descibe will happen. It sounds like what you are looking for is a club (mens,billiards,country). Does anybody by chance know of such an establishment?

Nfty9er,what's the name of your room? Where is it?

Ya'll know there's some talk about setting up a website unlike the sites of the past whos information became outdated. A site where players could locate rooms which meet their particular needs. Table info, pics, food, rates, etc.. Just in case your interested.Remember this would be a updated site!
So don't pack it in yet Bernie...this is America and there's got to be a place somewhere that meets your desires.

BillYards- Dammit, what happened to your avatar....list a link to the photo or something. Don't know what I'll do to wake up in the mornings!:D

Terry
 
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Just had a thought for Bernie and Highrun55. When I was a kid ballbanger I hung out at a room called Greenway. Plenty of music and noise the kind of stuff Bernie doesn't like and highrun wishes he could do without. Greenway had a back room, 9fter,two doors and insulated walls,called the money room cause Greenway was an action joint. Maybe something like that for people who just want to play quietly? Just a thought.

Terry
 
Tbeaux said:
Just had a thought for Bernie and Highrun55. When I was a kid ballbanger I hung out at a room called Greenway. Plenty of music and noise the kind of stuff Bernie doesn't like and highrun wishes he could do without. Greenway had a back room, 9fter,two doors and insulated walls,called the money room cause Greenway was an action joint. Maybe something like that for people who just want to play quietly? Just a thought.

Terry
there was an action room similar to that at the Corner Pocket in Vegas years ago. It was really nice
Guys and Dolls down in Shreveport had one like that too. Buddy probably played the best 9-ball ever in that room.
 
Bernie, while I understand your pain, we all started as ballbangers once. We all follow the same path - banger, ballmaker, league player, maybe gambler, and tournament player and somewhere along the way we start becoming a serious student of the game if we don't stall out somewhere on that algorithm. I have always contended that all of us walk before we can run and that anyone can get to be a decent player, given the right tools and knowledge and enough time and practice. A champion requires a few more ingredients (discipline, focus, will, drive, etc.)

Should we be entitled to 'own' the room because we have paid our dues? Probably not. Like a rich kid who feels entitled because he has never known poverty, we walk among the unwashed masses feeling superior with our elevated skills (of varying degrees) and say they have no right to our equipment? I think that is unfair. I feel everyone is my equal, whether their skillset is inferior or superior to mine - we are just at a different point on the timeline.

The skilled player is sitting on a large base of mostly unskilled players. The masses are going to dictate the music, etc. We can teach them the rest - etiquette like how to care for the tables, balls, etc. If you want to avoid the recreational player then you need to get your own table or buddy up with someone that has one and 'rent' custody of it on certain nights, or some other similar arrangement.

BTW, who's to say the recreational player doesn't enjoy playing pool as much as we do? If the game gives them enjoyment, they will come to love it, then like a fine wine, they will mellow and give respect back to the game. As you peel off layers of secrets shrouding this game, you find a whole new level previously hidden from view until you are ready to realize it and master it, and then the next veil is lifted. This game gives instant gratification and is enjoyable at any level. What I am saying is that some of us are champions, and some of us are champions in the making - only time and hard work separate us.
 
if you dont like the music and bangers, get a table in the tournament room. if you dont have a pool hall with a tournament room make your own. :D
 
I am on the internet

Tbeaux said:
Bernie,

I doubt what you descibe will happen. It sounds like what you are looking for is a club (mens,billiards,country). Does anybody by chance know of such an establishment?

Nfty9er,what's the name of your room? Where is it?

Ya'll know there's some talk about setting up a website unlike the sites of the past whos information became outdated. A site where players could locate rooms which meet their particular needs. Table info, pics, food, rates, etc.. Just in case your interested.Remember this would be a updated site!
So don't pack it in yet Bernie...this is America and there's got to be a place somewhere that meets your desires.

BillYards- Dammit, what happened to your avatar....list a link to the photo or something. Don't know what I'll do to wake up in the mornings!:D

Terry

Fast Eddy's in Santa Cruz, Ca. (Capitola) and I have a room like you describe in the back with 2 gold crown 4's. But you know most of the gambling still takes place in front on the two main action tables. Different strokes for different folks.

And for ironman, call me out anytime. You are uninformed if you do not realize there are a lot of great rooms in this country. Not just mine. I can name a half a dozen in Calif. alone.
If you want a room like that whats his name wants, bulld it in your house.
fasteddysbilliards.com
 
I actually think the opposite, I think we need to embrace the beginners and bangers. I am amazed when I here people say the don't want a bunch of bangers or weekend players showing up at their local pool room. That to me is a part of the current problem, some players have almost tried to keep there pool playing a secret click and just another one of many reasons why rooms died. You have to have an inviting atmosphere, not an intimidating room with a few well skilled players who look down on weekend enthusiasts or "bangers" a word that has actually been used to put done less skilled players who just like to play for pure fun.

I say talk to the beginners, introduce yourself, and try to get as many friends and people you know to play! I'm always amazed when I ask someone I would have never thought would play, really want to. I start them out on 8 ball and make it as easy as possible, maybe getting a few friends together to play doubles, each team with an experienced player who can help their teammate learn.

It can be hard to keep the old school players and new players and bangers all pleased. If you had the right space you could certainly set aside a separate closed of area with real nice tables for the regulars and pros, maybe even charge more for time in that area to offset any extra cost

If the sport, and or room owners try to promote the sport to just those hard core players it's doomed to fail, The future is with the beginner and the bar player, the banger and the weekend enthusiasts! I hope we see the pro's and hard core players take up the torch to help bring in new players so we have rooms to play in at all!

There is absolutely no reason why every populated area shouldn't have a pool room, and they should be full with all types of players:)
 
nfty9er said:
Fast Eddy's in Santa Cruz, Ca. (Capitola) and I have a room like you describe in the back with 2 gold crown 4's. But you know most of the gambling still takes place in front on the two main action tables. Different strokes for different folks.

And for ironman, call me out anytime. You are uninformed if you do not realize there are a lot of great rooms in this country. Not just mine. I can name a half a dozen in Calif. alone.
If you want a room like that whats his name wants, bulld it in your house.
fasteddysbilliards.com

Actually I was joking, and my problem is not so much with bangers or the younger ones today. I agree, we need more of them. Mt problem is modern day mgtment. For the most part, people act the way you allow them to act.
The fact is though, it has change and ain't going back.
 
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