the Christian Gambler

D

DeadStrokeMan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mention this because "RunArak" brought a point - Why the gamble?

Heres the deal: Playing Pro V. Pro (or Semi level) - We don't PUT IT OUT without the "reason". Its about "why" not $$. Makin' money gambling billiards can happen easily by "laying down" and moving about. Not that hard if you are good at laying down. We've all done it this. ... we just don't try so hard ..just hard enough :) You all know this too well. A sin? - Depends upon your motive/heart. When our motives become sole greed or revenge - we have lost.

The real REASON for the gamble should be this: It gives a REASON for the match/game - I have several friends in the area that I play who are HOT. But when we match up - we play for money BECAUSE it gives us MOTIVE. Without it ... we don't strive and push - we don't enhance our games. We may even become complacent and lazy players. Playing for money (not ludicrous stakes) really helps us out. This is the reason for the gamble.

As a Christian ( BIG FAN OF JC ) - I have no problems with gambling. Its STUPIDITY or GREED that is frowned upon. For example: Playing the Slots in Vegas - This is akin to "burning" the gifts that you've been given. Its just stupid. Yes - that stupidity is an obvious "sin" ( Guilty of this too often also ). Everything we do is "a gamble" -driving is a gamble with huge steaks. We hurl down the "rock road" at a zillion miles per hour encased in "tin" with a giant block of metal in front of us. Its actually quite insane - yet we all do it daily.

RunArak had stated that "breaking" a person to the last dollar is wrong. I gotta say - its not just wrong - its "heartLess". Being kind, having a heart, and making friends is just way more important that making $$. Its nice when you walk away richer - but if you can walk away richer and have a friend also ... thats DOUBLE PAY in my book.

So - the long of the short for my silly diatribe here is this: Why do you gamble? The answer is for you yourself. Only you know the truth.

Oh, one more thing : Positive attitude and Ego. As a Christian we are "told" by the pastors that "Ego" is bad and "Self" is bad ect. As a pool player we know that "Ego" is important and self-esteem at the game is very important... we cannot "woe is me" to a win scenario. How do we overcome this dillema? The answer is simple - it is not I who stokes that ball - but the He who lives in me! So rest in your stroke and have faith in your stroke - trust you "minds eye" and have fun.

Hope this helps some - sorry for any "religious junk" for those that hate it (I really understand your position well :) )
 
DeadStrokeMan said:
Everything we do is "a gamble" -driving is a gamble with huge steaks.
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Wow...I've been driving for quite some time and I never got a huge steak just for doing it!

...Sorry, I just couldn't resist...
 
Well said. I myself really cannot get my interest into a set unless their is something on a match. It is not a hustle, I simply get bored, running 3 or 4 racks in a row when there is nothing on the line is not enough for me. I want to "want" to win, and when I am playing for fun I dont really care if I win or lose, I can play loose, play dumb shots, miss a ball, I simply dont care. On the same token I can run 3 or 4 racks in a row and feel the same way, I have done it before, there is no need for me to do it again and show someone that for pride or something. It doesd not have to be much for me, $10 in a race to 7 or 9, $20 in a race to 11, 15, hell even 21. Just enough that I dont really want to pull my wallet out and pay the other guy the money. If I can beat a guy for $10 or $20 then that is some free money I can blow on a couple decent beers, or I can buy a decent meal for the $20. I would much rather win then lose when I have even small cash on the line and I find it alot more fun when you and the other guy both feel that. You know both you and your opponent want to win and are trying.

Thats what makes me wonder about Australia. I have found 4 people in my entire time in this country that actually have gambled me. People watch me practice, they come up 15 minutes later and ask me to play, I tell them sure and ask em if they want to do a cheap $10 set, and I always get "no, just for fun"... How is that fun? So I play a silly cheap set, I shoot lose and dont try to hard, and I get grilled on if I have played "soandso". People constantly trying me in fun sets like they think they can gauge my speed that way...
 
Hi Folks,

I'll repeat my post from another thread.

While driving from my motel to Pheasant Run last month, I saw the following on a sign in front of a church. "A hypocrite is someone who only goes to church on Sunday".
 
DeadStrokeMan said:
Mention this because "RunArak" brought a point - Why the gamble?

Heres the deal: Playing Pro V. Pro (or Semi level) - We don't PUT IT OUT without the "reason". Its about "why" not $$. Makin' money gambling billiards can happen easily by "laying down" and moving about. Not that hard if you are good at laying down. We've all done it this. ... we just don't try so hard ..just hard enough :) You all know this too well. A sin? - Depends upon your motive/heart. When our motives become sole greed or revenge - we have lost.

The real REASON for the gamble should be this: It gives a REASON for the match/game - I have several friends in the area that I play who are HOT. But when we match up - we play for money BECAUSE it gives us MOTIVE. Without it ... we don't strive and push - we don't enhance our games. We may even become complacent and lazy players. Playing for money (not ludicrous stakes) really helps us out. This is the reason for the gamble.

As a Christian ( BIG FAN OF JC ) - I have no problems with gambling. Its STUPIDITY or GREED that is frowned upon. For example: Playing the Slots in Vegas - This is akin to "burning" the gifts that you've been given. Its just stupid. Yes - that stupidity is an obvious "sin" ( Guilty of this too often also ). Everything we do is "a gamble" -driving is a gamble with huge steaks. We hurl down the "rock road" at a zillion miles per hour encased in "tin" with a giant block of metal in front of us. Its actually quite insane - yet we all do it daily.

RunArak had stated that "breaking" a person to the last dollar is wrong. I gotta say - its not just wrong - its "heartLess". Being kind, having a heart, and making friends is just way more important that making $$. Its nice when you walk away richer - but if you can walk away richer and have a friend also ... thats DOUBLE PAY in my book.

So - the long of the short for my silly diatribe here is this: Why do you gamble? The answer is for you yourself. Only you know the truth.

Oh, one more thing : Positive attitude and Ego. As a Christian we are "told" by the pastors that "Ego" is bad and "Self" is bad ect. As a pool player we know that "Ego" is important and self-esteem at the game is very important... we cannot "woe is me" to a win scenario. How do we overcome this dillema? The answer is simple - it is not I who stokes that ball - but the He who lives in me! So rest in your stroke and have faith in your stroke - trust you "minds eye" and have fun.

Hope this helps some - sorry for any "religious junk" for those that hate it (I really understand your position well :) )
Click to expand...


Like a lot of Christians you are searching for the loop holes. You can't have it both ways. If you are gambling at pool, you are attempting to gain something at someone else's expense. That is not what a true Christian would do. Your welcome ot rationalize all you want.
 
macguy said:
Like a lot of Christians you are searching for the loop holes. You can't have it both ways. If you are gambling at pool, you are attempting to gain something at someone else's expense. That is not what a true Christian would do. Your welcome ot rationalize all you want.
Click to expand...

First, nobody will ever confuse me for a man of faith, nor, for that matter am I a gambler, but...

As so many churches partially fund their coffers using the game of bingo, it's obvious that the church feels gambling is OK under some circumstances. So, as long as the church , through its behavior, indicates there is some room for interpretation, I'm going to have to agree with Celtic that a small wager between the participants can have a very positive impact by giving them greater motivation.

Please don't suggest that it's OK for churches to fund themselves through gambling activity but it's not OK for individuals who do the same within the law. I think the principle that seems to be applied by the church, that it's OK as long as other people are not preyed upon in a material way, is reasonable.
 
sjm said:
First, nobody will ever confuse me for a man of faith, nor, for that matter am I a gambler, but...

As so many churches partially fund their coffers using the game of bingo, it's obvious that the church feels gambling is OK under some circumstances. So, as long as the church , through its behavior, indicates there is some room for interpretation, I'm going to have to agree with Celtic that a small wager between the participants can have a very positive impact by giving them greater motivation.

Please don't suggest that it's OK for churches to fund themselves through gambling activity but it's not OK for individuals who do the same within the law. I think the principle that seems to be applied by the church, that it's OK as long as other people are not preyed upon in a material way, is reasonable.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree, it is the victimizing of someone and not the gambling that is the issue. Unfortunately, that is the case in many gambling situations.
 
I used to gamble at pool all the time. But I started to feel bad about it and prayed and asked God if it was pleasing to Him. He showed me that it was not and that it was a bad witness, so I stopped. I have since been criticized for playing tournaments as some feel there is no difference in matching up or putting up your entry fee and playing a tournament.
But my experience is that greed takes over much worse with people gambling than playing a tournament. Tournaments give the added thing some have mentioned they need to compete seriously without busting someone. Everyone knows that when gambling the loser is supposed to be able to decide when you stop. That in itself would put me as a Christian in the position of possibly being part to beating someone out of a lot of money they can't afford to lose.
But playing tournaments goes like this: you play until you lose two matches and your out or you win teh tournament. You either collect money or you don't. And no-one goes home broke. As was pointed out earlier, all of life is gambling. But tournaments and matching up are two different worlds in my opinion.
I once heard Mike Massey say why he could not gamble any longer. He said the Bible says we are to walk in love toward our brother, and he would cease to walk in Christ' love if he was trying to take grocery money from someone. Some of you may play for small stakes and God not convict you about it. But for me I think it would give the same poor witness as others don't know always what you are playing for. So why give opportunity for those who seek occasion to speak evil?
I can't say drinking a beer is evil. But many think it is so you won't see me at a tournament drinking a beer. Been over 20 years since I had one and been over 20 years since I matched up. Yes I have to swallow my pride and refuse to play when I am being wolfed at, even when I know I could rob the wolfer.
Glad to see the honest responses this topic has brought out.
Chris
 
DeadStrokeMan said:
RunArak had stated that "breaking" a person to the last dollar is wrong. I gotta say - its not just wrong - its "heartLess". Being kind, having a heart, and making friends is just way more important that making $$. Its nice when you walk away richer - but if you can walk away richer and have a friend also ... thats DOUBLE PAY in my book.
Click to expand...

When I first started gambling I used to be the same way. Alot of times I would give people alot of their money back, just because I felt bad. It took a while for me to learn that those people that I did that for, don't give a crap about me. They would take my last dollar if they had the chance.

Here is the way I look at gambling in pool now- When you gamble with someone, no matter what the amount is, you are entertaining them. If you beat them, they are paying you to be entertained. When they beat you, it's the other way around. Whoever loses, spends money to learn a lesson, and to have fun taking the pressure. Pool is a game of skill, so in actuality, it's not gambling. You are betting money on your skills. Since it is not luck, it is not the same as playing blackjack, roulette, or slots.

Those people that you give money back to, many of them will hound you, and try to take advantage of you. I personally think that doing that is foolish. There are very few circumstances now that I would do that in. If I play a guy, and he goes off, and I take all his money (which rarely happens), I might give him something back. Most of the time if I win a money match, I will pay the time, unless we agree to either split time or to have the loser pay time.

Remember, alot of those people that you do a good deed for, they are just gonna try and use that money to try to take yours. They don't care about friendship, they just want the cash.

I have made two friends from that, however. That was a few years ago, I beat some guy who was a total stranger out of $80. He asked me to play, and he had not seen me shoot. I thought the guy could at least play a little, but he could barely hold his $1000 cue. After the set I let him keep his money and just had him pay the time, because I felt bad that our game was so unevenly matched. I could have given him the 5 out and still probably beat him pretty easy. We became good friends after that. He is one of a few, but 90% of them really don't give a crap about being your friend or not, they just want money, your money.
 
Have you lost the thrill of playing the game?

Celtic said:
I myself really cannot get my interest into a set unless their is something on a match.
Click to expand...
The biggest excuses I hear about wanting to gamble at pool is, 'I can't play my best unless something is on the game', or 'I get bored unless there is something on the game. Sometimes to the extent of, 'that's not a big enough bet'.
Celtic said:
I simply get bored, running 3 or 4 racks in a row
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You get bored running 3 or 4 racks!!!!!!!!!!! I want to be so bored!!!!!!!!!!

This is a game of skill (mostly). Remember playing games? We were all young once and when dad or mom said, 'You want to play Monopoly'? We were thrilled. Ran to the game cabinet and pulled out our favorite. For some of us, our favorite was pool.

You enjoyed pool as a game some time ago. I still enjoy going to he basement and playing pool. By myself. I enjoy making a great shot. So what happened that you need to gamble now to make it enjoyable?

'It's just a game'? How many times has someone said that to us trying to console us when we lost? Doesn't work vary well does it? In psychology, one of the 'basic human wants (or needs) is, to win. I think when we get so good at something (like pool) that we win most of the time, we start looking for something more. Since we are already good at pool, we just add gambling to it. Sticking with pool we can boost our chances of winning at gambling. Are we never satisfied?
 
CaptainJR said:
I think when we get so good at something (like pool) that we win most of the time, we start looking for something more. Since we are already good at pool, we just add gambling to it. Sticking with pool we can boost our chances of winning at gambling. Are we never satisfied?
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Bringing some wild women into the mix would certainly lend itself to that...
 
LastTwo said:
Remember, alot of those people that you do a good deed for, they are just gonna try and use that money to try to take yours. They don't care about friendship, they just want the cash.
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They either want the cash or they want the ego trip and bragging rights to kicking your ass. Sometimes you just can't be nice to people and you HAVE to take their money just to punish them for being jerks.

A couple of months ago I met two guys that weren't bad players, they weren't your typical pool room ball bangers, but they were no where as good as they thought they were. I knew we were going to have somewhat of an ongoing relationship in another area and I didn't want to create any hard feelings through pool.

I thought I'd be a nice guy and not bring up the money or ask them to play for anything. I said let's just play. We had two or three different sessions together over a couple of weeks and they really didn't stand a chance. One guy then starts boasting, "Well I always play a LOT better when I'm playing for something, and I don't think you'd play as free and loose as you do (meaning me) if something was on the line".

There was something about his personality that was grating on me as time went on anyway, but when he said that I'd about had it. So I asked him how much he thought we should play for that would make me gag and at the same time be exciting enough to boost his level of play. He said we could start off at $10 bucks and go from there. I almost busted out laughing right on the spot and I should have taken his ten bucks up until he stopped, which probably would have been a whopping $40 or $50 but I still didn't want to kill the relationship with both of them for something else that was more lucrative.

I had a little cash on me and pulled out a $100 and said "Why don't we just play for that first and we'll go from there". I then yanked 14 more $100 bills and plopped them all on the table and said, "That's $1,500 bucks, if we're going to play to make my ass pucker, let's just do it for as many as you want at a time until it's all gone, whaddaya say"?

If you ever wanted to see someone develop lockjaw, it was right then and there. His face got red as a beet and he couldn't even talk. Needless to say we didn't play for anything, however it didn't kill our relationship in the other area either, but it did kill it for pool. Sometimes you just can't win even when you play for nothing. Maybe I should have just whupped his ass for whatever he wanted to keep donating.
 
sjm said:
As so many churches partially fund their coffers using the game of bingo, it's obvious that the church feels gambling is OK under some circumstances.

Please don't suggest that it's OK for churches to fund themselves through gambling activity but it's not OK for individuals who do the same within the law..
Click to expand...

SJM,
Rather that telling us that gambling is acceptable, perhaps this tells us that organized religion may in some instances be more concerned with filling their coffers than with proper Christian principles.

Signed,
No Fan of Organized Religion
 
cueman said:
I used to gamble at pool all the time. But I started to feel bad about it and prayed and asked God if it was pleasing to Him. He showed me that it was not and that it was a bad witness, so I stopped. I have since been criticized for playing tournaments as some feel there is no difference in matching up or putting up your entry fee and playing a tournament.
But my experience is that greed takes over much worse with people gambling than playing a tournament. Tournaments give the added thing some have mentioned they need to compete seriously without busting someone. Everyone knows that when gambling the loser is supposed to be able to decide when you stop. That in itself would put me as a Christian in the position of possibly being part to beating someone out of a lot of money they can't afford to lose.
But playing tournaments goes like this: you play until you lose two matches and your out or you win teh tournament. You either collect money or you don't. And no-one goes home broke. As was pointed out earlier, all of life is gambling. But tournaments and matching up are two different worlds in my opinion.
I once heard Mike Massey say why he could not gamble any longer. He said the Bible says we are to walk in love toward our brother, and he would cease to walk in Christ' love if he was trying to take grocery money from someone. Some of you may play for small stakes and God not convict you about it. But for me I think it would give the same poor witness as others don't know always what you are playing for. So why give opportunity for those who seek occasion to speak evil?
I can't say drinking a beer is evil. But many think it is so you won't see me at a tournament drinking a beer. Been over 20 years since I had one and been over 20 years since I matched up. Yes I have to swallow my pride and refuse to play when I am being wolfed at, even when I know I could rob the wolfer.
Glad to see the honest responses this topic has brought out.
Chris
Click to expand...
Truer words could not have been spoken better than that. I am not much of a gambler. But when I do gamble I am hustling. As a Christian I knew I was decieving the player I was gambling with and was convicted thur the whole set. How could that be GODs will. I was gambling to make ends meet and I had to stop. I knew I was stealing. My dad is my role model, He is good at the game, never gambles, respected among the players, and truely loves the game. And of couse, he is a Christian. No matter how I try to justify gambling, I just can not see GOD wanting me to do it.
As far as tournments, it all depends on the player. If you go there for the competition, you pay your entry fee, you win, great, you loose, gettem next time; that is not gambling. Now if you there with your last $100 in your sock, spend most of it on the entry fee, and you are depending on winning this tournment in order to eat for the week, you are gambling. When you play with your lunch box on the end of your cue, IMO you are gambling. I could go on and on and on, but I figured I better stop before I start preaching. That was just one penny of my 2 cents.
 
Williebetmore said:
SJM,
Rather that telling us that gambling is acceptable, perhaps this tells us that organized religion may in some instances be more concerned with filling their coffers than with proper Christian principles.

Signed,
No Fan of Organized Religion
Click to expand...

Willie, all I noted was that betting immaterial amounts seemed to be OK with the church. Your point is well taken, though.

If you really enjoy the subject of "religion for profit", you'd enjoy reading any of the Barsetshire novels of Anthony Trollope, in particular The Warden, which isn't very long. For exposing some of the "religion for profit" practices within Victorian England, Trollope infuriated many in his day, but he told a story that needed telling.
 
sjm said:
Willie, all I noted was that betting immaterial amounts seemed to be OK with the church. Your point is well taken, though.

If you really enjoy the subject of "religion for profit", you'd enjoy reading any of the Barsetshire novels of Anthony Trollope, in particular The Warden, which isn't very long. For exposing some of the "religion for profit" practices within Victorian England, Trollope infuriated many in his day, but he told a story that needed telling.
Click to expand...

SJM,
I haven't read Trollope, but another scathing indictment of organized religion can be found in Stendhal's classic "The Red and the Black" about the conflict between the military and the clergy as career choices for young men during the revolutionary era in France. I'll definitely look up Mr. Trollope next vacation.
 
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