Thank you for your reply.My opinion only. Comes with quite a few years of playing, experimenting, observing, and talking with players.
Thank you for your reply.My opinion only. Comes with quite a few years of playing, experimenting, observing, and talking with players.
Thank you for your reply.
Too bad I have to burst your bubble, but there are lots of great players out there (not me, of course, because I am just no good at playing) who will disagree with you. Perhaps you just don't realize how big this world really is. But, that's okay too. You've got a living to make...it's all good.Sure, and I hope you noted the word 'potential.' It's different from 'ability' in case you find that 90 percent figure disturbing, but I'm positive about it. There are so many things you can't potentially do with a death grip. You can't let your stroke out<==I can(Once you've done it, you'll wonder how you ever played without it.) You can't finesse shots with a death grip. <==I can
Yes, you can spin balls, but it's not even one iota close to how you can spin them when your hand and arm are relaxed.<==I don't need a lot of added spin, I get plenty just from the angle collision of the balls. (Efren is a great example.)You will tire sooner with a death grip and you can wind up with arm, back,or neck pain from the tension. <===I don't
However, there are definitely uses for a tight grip. I grab the cue tightly at impact on hard break shots. I have to, even with a rubber grip on my break cue or the cue will fly out of my hands. It's happened. I like a tighter grip when the cb is frozen to the rail and you have to shoot off the rail.
I've seen a lot of 14.1 players shoot with a tight grip. I've also noticed that their style of play is to use shorter strokes and that they prefer to punch the ball rather than roll it.
If you tell a rotation player to tighten his grip, you're taking away 90 percent of his potential.That's why so many 14.1 players couldn't make the transition to 9 Ball back in the early 80's when tournaments started changing from 14.1 to 9 Ball. Very few players can successfully play rotation games that way. Allen Hopkins is one of the few exceptions who was able to make the transition, but if you watch him play, he plays very close position and stays away from long shots as much as possible.
Too bad I have to burst your bubble, but there are lots of great players out there (not me, of course, because I am just no good at playing) who will disagree with you. Perhaps you just don't realize how big this world really is. But, that's okay too. You've got a living to make...it's all good.
Everyone has their opinions and procedures about this game...especially instructors.
Life's like that. Happy Trails!
I think Thorsten Holmann uses a tight grip and he does very well with it ...
Almost every pool instructional video, as well as snooker, warns us of the horror of the "death grip". Now, the word "death grip'" is somewhat open to interpretation, but to me it signifies a grip where the hand is tightened well beyond the "holding a baby bird without hurting it" grip pressure. I mean, I'm not crushing golf balls with my fist like Oddjob, but if a sparrow is in my hand, those ribs are not going to hold up so well...Why is this so detrimental? To be honest, I don't know? I can see in some of the more delicate situations, especially those in games like straight rail, balkline and maybe sometimes in one pocket, where you are barely tapping the balls, that a tight grip may diminish the control slightly. But that's not even 5% of our shots, not even 1%...What about the rest?
A relatively tigth grip, for me, seems to tighten up the wrist, especially in the "side-to-side" direction. While it does slightly kill the wrist action, it doesn't completely ruin it, and there is plenty room to help with it, as long as you're not trying to crush your cue with your hands.
What else? A tight grip avoids "cheating" with your alignment. Your hand is in a fixed position and cannot really allow you to hold the cue seemingly on line and only to then move to the side when the final stroke is made, because the arm is not properly in line.
A tight grip keeps things constant, for those of us who are slightly nervous and tend to clench up when the pressure is on. If you're allready tight in the hand, there is nowhere to go wrong.
A tight grip allows me to slam the balls without worry about the cue flying off to the side or up. It allows me to put very slight downwards pressure on rail shots, making it nearly impossible to miscue, even with power shots.
A lot has been said about the accuracy of a relaxed arm, how it helps feel etc..That's great and all, but personally when I've tried it, I cannot get those benefits. The tighter grip is just as accurate as a lose grip, and more importantly it stays the same. The more things stay the same, the more I like it.
I don't do the textbook stuff, anymore. I'm making my own textbook, to suit my needs. I recommend you try it some time. The textbook will always be there, if you want to go back. That textbook, btw, seems to be written largely by Billiards players. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not trying to do a Chuck Nurse, or Rail Nurse, when I'm playing pool....
I don't know why it is, but whenever I challenge an instructor on something, they start with the "you're sounding hostile stuff".Ugh. Now your starting to sound hostile. That's not nice. I'm just presenting my opinion. I was a professional player for about 30 years who also happens to be an instructor. So you're going to hold the teaching part against me? How silly. I don't make a living teaching pool. I don't need to drum up business. You will never see me on here soliciting lessons like some people do.
Why not post a list of those death grip pros. I'd love to study them. Maybe there's something I can learn. I'm always up for learning.
Yessir...that's what it's all about! Go man Go!!I use what I would call a "firm" grip, but not a "death grip". I also use all four fingers and my thumb to grip the cue. I'm not one of those "light grip" people who flick the cue while it rests on two fingers. After playing for over 50 years, I think this is the grip that works the best for me.
I have never played where I thought I had a "loose" grip.
On a scale of 1 being super loose and 10 being a death grip, I would say I'm around a 5, or so.
I have more control with a firm grip.
I think everyone will hold the cue "looser" or "tighter" on some shots, but I like to keep everything the "same", if I can. The less I have to worry about, the better I play.
I can "finesse" the ball with my "firm" grip and I can "muscle" the ball with my firm grip. It isn't as "restrictive" as some people make it out to be, at least for me, that is.
I've ran thousands and thousands of racks, using my grip, and I don't think going to a "lighter" grip would have added many more.
I don't know why it is, but whenever I challenge an instructor on something, they start with the "you're sounding hostile stuff".
You played pool professionally for 30 years? Good for you. I hope you made a lot of money.
I've played pool for money for 70 years and I'm a terrible player, scared of everyone, I am a first class nit, the world's worst shot maker and position player, have no nerves, and I dog it in the clutch...that's my resume. Not so hot, I guess..
As for good players who use a firm grip, there are some posting on here in this very thread now who advocate the firm grip. I personally have only known a few in my life...Billy Johnson, Joe Cosgrove, and Jimmy Rempe come to mind. So I'm really nobody, unworthy of your attention....but those three guys did hit the balls pretty good.
Happy trails to you.
CJ advocates a tighter grip in his teaching.
That's because you were being hostile towards her and it was quite obvious. Your first sentence says it all "When ever I challenge an instructor". Why do you need to challenge anyone ? She gave her opinion... if you still want to shoot at an APA 4 level, nobody is stopping you. Fran is trying to get folks to think how to improve, and not "well, this guy does this"....well, you're not that guy.
Sure, folks can do it the wrong way, and it's OK. Albert Bell was a terrific baseball hitter... but his mechanics were terrible, his hands came forward during the pitch, and then he pulled his hands back again. Nobody, and I mean nobody would teach that to anyone. But he was so talented to overcome this "mechanical flaw" the rest, including other pro's, would never think about doing it.
So, I guess, she and others should just say " in general, it's not a good idea to play your best with a death grip, but, if you like your death grip you can keep your death grip" And yes, I'm sure there is some pro, somewhere, that plays with one. So what... you're not a pro and he developed his grip over a few decade to hit top speed.
So, lighten up Francis
NO, Frances........YOU lighten up.That's because you were being hostile towards her and it was quite obvious. Your first sentence says it all "When ever I challenge an instructor". Why do you need to challenge anyone ? <===practice what you preach, bub. She gave her opinion... if you still want to shoot at an APA 4 level, nobody is stopping you. Fran is trying to get folks to think how to improve, and not "well, this guy does this"....well, you're not that guy.
Sure, folks can do it the wrong way, and it's OK. Albert Bell was a terrific baseball hitter... but his mechanics were terrible, his hands came forward during the pitch, and then he pulled his hands back again. Nobody, and I mean nobody would teach that to anyone. But he was so talented to overcome this "mechanical flaw" the rest, including other pro's, would never think about doing it. <===WRONG! Cobb invented it.
So, I guess, she and others should just say " in general, it's not a good idea to play your best with a death grip, but, if you like your death grip you can keep your death grip" And yes, I'm sure there is some pro, somewhere, that plays with one. So what... you're not a pro and he developed his grip over a few decade to hit top speed.
So, lighten up Francis
That's because you were being hostile towards her and it was quite obvious. Your first sentence says it all "When ever I challenge an instructor". Why do you need to challenge anyone ? She gave her opinion... if you still want to shoot at an APA 4 level, nobody is stopping you. Fran is trying to get folks to think how to improve, and not "well, this guy does this"....well, you're not that guy.
Sure, folks can do it the wrong way, and it's OK. Albert Bell was a terrific baseball hitter... but his mechanics were terrible, his hands came forward during the pitch, and then he pulled his hands back again. Nobody, and I mean nobody would teach that to anyone. But he was so talented to overcome this "mechanical flaw" the rest, including other pro's, would never think about doing it.
So, I guess, she and others should just say " in general, it's not a good idea to play your best with a death grip, but, if you like your death grip you can keep your death grip" And yes, I'm sure there is some pro, somewhere, that plays with one. So what... you're not a pro and he developed his grip over a few decade to hit top speed.
So, lighten up Francis