The Dreaded Basement/Garage Pole Issue...

[Banger]

Living room floor should support 40 lbs per square foot, IIRC.

A fat guy standing on one leg, would be in deep trouble.

I can't recall ever putting a deposit down with a contractor. There are many, many honest contractors around here, who don't want any money in advance. Nope, I'm not giving them a deposit.

 

[BlackMDX]

We have a laminate beam in my basement with another smaller laminate beam a few feet back in the center. Had an engineer friend of mine inspect it...asked if I planned to park my car in the living room lol. My brother in law is a home inspector and also inspected it. Been that way for 12 years now and the house is still standing. 18 foot span with no trouble spots from having a 7'er with 2 poles in the way

Your engineer friend should have been more concerned about snow loads on your roof, the pitch of the roof, and where the bearing walls are, rather than what you are going to park in your living room. And no offense to your brother-in-law, but most home inspectors wouldn’t have a clue how to calculate whether removing or moving a column can be done safely.

 

[Joe P.]

Your engineer friend should have been more concerned about snow loads on your roof, the pitch of the roof, and where the bearing walls are, rather than what you are going to park in your living room. And no offense to your brother-in-law, but most home inspectors wouldn’t have a clue how to calculate whether removing or moving a column can be done safely.

Actually he did check everything, but thanks! My first concern was my families safety, it's not something I just did to make my life more convenient. It was just a little something he said that I found humorous. And since I live in the northeast that was one if my first concerns, hence having an engineer come make sure everything would work and inspection after we were finished

 

[BC21]

I used a company out of New Jersey. They came up to CT and removed a pole in the basement which would have been my 850sqft man cave. My ex-wife now has a nice open area ready for sheetrock she can entertain in (lol?). This is who I used: https://lallygone.com/

Think it cost me $3100. They bolted 2 steel plates to either side of the beam and cut the column out. Took them maybe 3 hours.

This is what I did in an old garage years ago. It costs me the price of two 3ft long steel plates (each 3/8 thick and 8in high) , about 8 3/4" bolts, and a couple of really good drill bits. Did it myself and it worked just fine.

In another house I built a 16ft long beam out of 2×8's, then bought two adjustable metal support beams. I set the 16ft beam crossways above my pool table, each end supported by one of the adjustable beams.
Then I cranked it up tight, perpendicular against the main house beam and almost flush to the old support beam I wanted to knock out. After the cross beam was in place, I knocked that old obstructing support beam out. It was a big house, 3 stories, and that cross beam is still in place and all is good.

For the op.... Having an engineer look at your exact setup to give you some options is probably the best thing to do. Then you can decide whether or not to pay someone to do it or do it yourself.

 

[DynoDan]

A friend of mine gave a contractor a $28,000 deposit over a year ago. The money is gone, the contractor has a handful of customers in this position. As usual cops say it is civil. You can win a judgment, can't get blood out of a turnip! Might even get the contractor a little jail time, won't get the work done. The friend is retired so a twenty-eight thousand dollar loss bites pretty big. Meantime no other contractor wants to mess with a job halfass started and walked away from. The contractor is licensed, had references, the whole nine yards. However with all of the demand for work after the storms he took a lot of deposits, spent the money, can't do the work if he wanted to with no money. I'm sure he is still basically Ponzi scheming. Taking deposits, using some of that money to do a little work on older contracts and try to stay out of jail.

That is one reason I have long been a do it yourselfer whenever possible. Sixteen trees 80' to 120' tall, I went and bought a chainsaw and started laying down trees! Had some nervous neighbors but me and John Deere had a plan. At this point I have laid down fifty or so large trees. My current saw has a 32" bar, I have felling wedges and proper safety equipment. Tree removal is another area with lots of scammers. I hired a pro when a bucket truck was needed. Scared my mule, they had no idea of safety! A licensed and bonded contractor but he sent his son to push a small crew. The son did the cutting and had no idea how. Invited a barber's chair then did much of his cutting from behind the tree!

For those that would only tackle small trees, most fatalities occur with small trees, those under sixteen inches diameter breast high. Those land owners think they can handle and pros can get a little careless with.

I'm getting past the do everything myself age now and I find that skills I haven't used in decades are no longer there. I'll have to hire contractors for any medium and large projects now. Guess I will dust off ol' Betsy and watch them, my trigger finger is still good!

Hu

A familiar story. An acquaintance gave a (supposedly) reputable local contractor a large deposit for a home remodeling job. He took the money, went to Vegas, & spent it all on coke & whores. The cops arrested him on his return, but my friend never saw him or a penny of that deposit money again. You just never know when someone is due to snap and dive off the deep end.

 

[DaveK]

I've done this. First got a design done by a professional engineer, and with that got a building permit. The design included two new footings and larger posts. Here is an in-progress picture, you can see the new footings (lighter gray), the temporary shoring posts on either side of one of the footings (the new post was installed after the channel was installed), the post-to-be-removed in the middle, and the to-be-installed channels laying on the floor. I did most of the work myself even though I have a good job and can afford to contract out.

This is the room when complete (or a reasonable facsimile thereof).

Dave

 

[jgirard]

This is what I did in an old garage years ago. It costs me the price of two 3ft long steel plates (each 3/8 thick and 8in high) , about 8 3/4" bolts, and a couple of really good drill bits. Did it myself and it worked just fine.

In another house I built a 16ft long beam out of 2×8's, then bought two adjustable metal support beams. I set the 16ft beam crossways above my pool table, each end supported by one of the adjustable beams.
Then I cranked it up tight, perpendicular against the main house beam and almost flush to the old support beam I wanted to knock out. After the cross beam was in place, I knocked that old obstructing support beam out. It was a big house, 3 stories, and that cross beam is still in place and all is good.

For the op.... Having an engineer look at your exact setup to give you some options is probably the best thing to do. Then you can decide whether or not to pay someone to do it or do it yourself.

In my case it was two 3/4" thick steel plates, 18 feet long. It reaches past the column that was being removed to the next column. You can see the steel plate in the pic. I ended up with 16' 8" between the other column and the wall framing. THe pool table was going where the work table is in that photo.

 

[mikemosconi]

I’d be surprised if there is anyplace you could do this kind of work legally without a permit. And a permit will likely require “sealed” calculations from a licensed structural/architectural firm. Without these documents some contractors may refuse to do the work.

It is a good idea to do this work the correct and legal way because some day you may want to sell your home and the buyer may bring in a home inspector who will spot the work immediately and ask to see the documentation.

Very true! The first home that I bought was owned by a local Police Detective. Not to my knowledge, the large addition to the home was never even issued a town permit ( he was above the law, apparently) I was naive, and the local realtors involved never requested to see a permit ( of course).
When I went to sell the house the issue was now right there and was a BIG problem, until my very sexy realtor did a dance with the local building inspector( whom she thankfully knew well) - and everything got white washed for my sale with a permit being issued prior to the sale.

I was lucky- all small town politics involved in the shady dealings - without the right people and in a larger metropolis- it is a major hard ache!

 

[dd1228]

In 1976 I bought a 15 foot steel 8 inch I Beam from my local steel yard and brought it home in the back of my Pinto hatchback with the help of a buddy. Supported both ends with adjustable poles. No problem, no structual engineers , and nothing in anyones home was going to cause that beam to sag. Now I had a room 15 x 24, plenty of room for a 9 footer. But then again I am probably more handy than most people out there!

 

[Racky BallBoa]

I've just learned that those horrible basement poles - usually located where they seem to exist solely to screw up shooting out of THAT one corner or side pocket without the use of a shorty-stick, or worse, smack in the middle of your basement or two-car garage and perfectly killing your ability to put a pool table in there - can be removed!

In short, there are companies who specialize in this, and what they basically do is reinforce the overhead beam in essentially a steel plate sandwich; and the offending 'pool table killing pole' is removed - completely opening the space.

Apparently, these accursed things are properly called: Lally Columns - growing up, we called them F-ing Basement Poles - and, it appears that you can get one out of your basement if no structural complications are present, for somewhere in the $2000 - $3000 range all-in; with permits, structural architect fees, inspections, etc.

I don't know if this is news to anyone else; but, it sure was to me. Having been plagued by these horrid things my whole life, I was thrilled to learn about this. - GJ

That's why I moved to Florida, to avoid snow and "basement poles".

 

[jgirard]

In 1976 I bought a 15 foot steel 8 inch I Beam from my local steel yard and brought it home in the back of my Pinto hatchback with the help of a buddy. Supported both ends with adjustable poles. No problem, no structual engineers , and nothing in anyones home was going to cause that beam to sag. Now I had a room 15 x 24, plenty of room for a 9 footer. But then again I am probably more handy than most people out there!

In my case it wasn't feasible to DIY it. Two 18 foot plates weighing in at around 550lbs each wasn't something I was willing to take on. Sometimes you have a problem that you just to throw money at.

 

[DaveK]

In my case it wasn't feasible to DIY it. Two 18 foot plates weighing in at around 550lbs each wasn't something I was willing to take on. Sometimes you have a problem that you just to throw money at.

That's what friends are for ... had 4 buddies over to lift the channel irons in place while I clamped them in place They rested on 1" plates on top of the posts so were not about to fall down. I also learned how great Rotabroach cutters work in mag drills (rented) and milling machines (in my garage, "drilled" 3/4" holes through the 1" plate in maybe 30 seconds with very little pressure ... amazing IMO).

Rotabroach Annular Cutter Advantage

Dave

 

[ShootingArts]

That's what friends are for ... had 4 buddies over to lift the channel irons in place while I clamped them in place They rested on 1" plates on top of the posts so were not about to fall down. I also learned how great Rotabroach cutters work in mag drills (rented) and milling machines (in my garage, "drilled" 3/4" holes through the 1" plate in maybe 30 seconds with very little pressure ... amazing IMO).

Rotabroach Annular Cutter Advantage

Dave

Used those type cutters in a machine shop. One thing I used them for was cutting holes in some cast aluminum electrical boxes. These were over an inch thick and the more metal I didn't have to cut the better when I was cutting two holes in up to forty boxes in a run. Over two inch holes, not cutting all of that metal away was nice.

Hu

 

[DaveK]

In 1976 I bought a 15 foot steel 8 inch I Beam from my local steel yard and brought it home in the back of my Pinto hatchback with the help of a buddy. Supported both ends with adjustable poles. No problem, no structual engineers , and nothing in anyones home was going to cause that beam to sag. Now I had a room 15 x 24, plenty of room for a 9 footer. But then again I am probably more handy than most people out there!

I was mitigating risk, nothing to do with how handy I am.

The structural engineering design was a prerequisite for a building permit. Doing structural work on a home without a building permit has pretty significant liability risks. Here in Canada (or at least in Saskatchewan) when selling you must declare any work done without a permit, or again assume risk.

Dave