The FIX (1991 Challenge of Champions)

Respectfully

sjm said:
The less said about the Challenge of Champions won by LeBron the better. It's a scar on pro pool's resume that is still healing.
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All healing "requires" that you talk about it.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Are you sure no one got paid?
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Vegas calling off all bets is the only way i have ever heard the story told...and that's even from LeBron's mouth, like he had some wagers that he didn't get to collect on. He got his money for winning, but that was it according to him.

I would assume that everyone involved got their money back, otherwise you would have heard many stories to the contrary

I'm sure that there might be some people who were actually IN Vegas and BET on the match, who can speak up and clarify the situation.
 
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BiG_JoN said:
Colin,

I believe i remember what you are talking about.
Wasn't it a stretch shot for Earl (from the camera view, on the right side of the table)?
I believe at that time Earl had some severe Kidney Stones, and was in considerable pain, and waited until after the Cup to see a doctor.

So i wouldn't say that there was any intentional dumping.
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I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Inncent until proven guilty :D

It was not so much the stretching pot you mention, but the shot before it to get position. It was a very simple shot one cushion to come to center table, but he played / forced it two rails and nearly scratched in the center, leaving himself a horrible but makeable angle, which he missed badly. After the game he went back on the table to practice the fine cut pot again. It all looked kind of unnatural.

I do recall he missed a few kick shots completely which surprised me at the time.
 
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I heard directly from a reliable and indesputable source that the individuals that placed bets prior to the final match got paid.

With that said, it was a scam that will go down in the history books as a black-eye for our sport. The particular casino that hosted this event has never hosted another pool tournament that required them to be involved since that incident.

Shame on those guys..........

Also, I have witnessed this type of behavior personally at one of my events.
The dump was soo obvious that I immediately banned the player for life from ever participating in one of my events again. I didn't benefit or lose any monies because of the situation but my spectators and fans of our sport did.

Mj
 
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i'm casting my vote to let this thread die, or be deleted.

it is in the past, and we do no good by bringing this back to light in a public forum that anyone in the world has access to.

VAP
 
iusedtoberich said:
Are you sure no one got paid? This story has been told countless times here but this is the first time I have seen anyone say that Vegas called off all bets. Did the betters at least get their money back from Vegas?

I know Vegas never booked another event AFTER this, but I always heard that the players got paid for their bets on that event.
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Actually Vegas did book the Challenge of Champions when it was at the Mirage.(1996 ?)
That was the year Souquet beat Strickland in the finals.
I personally won some large bets at the Mirage sportsbook on the Strickland semi final match.
 
MikeJanis said:
I heard directly from a reliable and indesputable source that the individuals that placed bets prior to the final match got paid.

Mj
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I have often wondered which is the correct story. I just assumed that cause it came from Mike's mouth, that it was fact, but....for all i know, LeBron could have been looking for a sympathy dinner.

(i have never heard him admit to the dump by the way. and he says that he should have gotten paid for the side bets.)
He is often compelled to conceal his motives and the truth, for whatever reason, so people learn to take what he has to say with a couple chunks of salt. He is definitely one slick character.

BUT then again, i know a lot of people that if they didn't get paid, would never admit to it. (it's that ego thing again) Like they always want to be perceived as a winner.

So even if someone were to tell me they got paid, and all i heard was the bets were called off, i'd have to take a look at the type of personality that i was dealing with, and then form my own opinion.

Be interesting to hear all the different variations of what people say.

At your event, did they cut up a book, or did they chop up the calcutta money?
 
I know that in the 2003 COC John Horsfall approached Bustamante about having a "saver" for the loser of the match but Bustamante refused. This isn't so bad IMO but having a player completely dump a match in a high profile event like this is ridiculous. It's a slap in the face to fans that they thought they could get away with it, do they really think were that stupid?
 
sniper said:
I know that in the 2003 COC John Horsfall approached Bustamante about having a "saver" for the loser of the match but Bustamante refused. This isn't so bad IMO but having a player completely dump a match in a high profile event like this is ridiculous. It's a slap in the face to fans that they thought they could get away with it, do they really think were that stupid?
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'Saver' and 'Dump' should not even be considered to be in the same vein. Totally different. A saver is a consolation prize agreed upon by the 2 players before the match is concluded, there is no inference as to who wins.

The dump is a pure cheat of the book.

And, if it happened, they did get away with it.
 
Matt_24 said:
Can you imagine what kind of odds people were getting on Lebron when it came down to him and Buddy?
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50-1.

It was the most blatant case of dumping, since pool had a line in Vegas for the first time (in a long time?) The entire tournament was a dump fest, IMO. The nutty shot choices. The crazy scratches. The miscues off the table. The final match, Buddy gives himself position for an off angle combination (8/9) that he never looked to solve before he got to that position. It was brutal and funny at the same time.

Fred
 
SUPERSTAR said:
I have often wondered which is the correct story. I just assumed that cause it came from Mike's mouth, that it was fact, but....for all i know, LeBron could have been looking for a sympathy dinner.

(i have never heard him admit to the dump by the way. and he says that he should have gotten paid for the side bets.)
He is often compelled to conceal his motives and the truth, for whatever reason, so people learn to take what he has to say with a couple chunks of salt. He is definitely one slick character.

BUT then again, i know a lot of people that if they didn't get paid, would never admit to it. (it's that ego thing again) Like they always want to be perceived as a winner.

So even if someone were to tell me they got paid, and all i heard was the bets were called off, i'd have to take a look at the type of personality that i was dealing with, and then form my own opinion.

Be interesting to hear all the different variations of what people say.

At your event, did they cut up a book, or did they chop up the calcutta money?
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The book and only 1 of the players was involved.
 
In the Japanese sport of cycle racing, all the riders are secluded from all public contact for months to prevent fixing of races. Let's do that to pool players.. :rolleyes:

ghost ball
 
Colin Colenso said:
I hate to cast dispersions, but have any of you closely watched Earl's games from the 2002 Mosconi Cup where Steve Davis beats Earl to win the Cup?

Earl played the worst positional shot you could imagine followed by a terrible pot attempt to lose the final game. Not to mention a couple of hooks he made on himself, which he got out of, almost to his chagrin it seemed.

Also, in his match against Chamat, he made several very untypical mistakes.

It may sound like rubbish, but watch the games and see what you think.
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I seriously doubt Earl dumped that game. Watch the video again - When Davis pots the 9 to win the tournament and everyone on Team Europe is jumping up and congratulating him you can clearly see Earl grabbing the balls and setting up the shot where he got out of line (The shot on the 5 that put him on the wrong side of the 6 that in turn led to terrible position on the 7 IIRC) and was trying to shoot it over again correctly. He was clearly upset about it and wanted to vindicate himself somehow. However he is quickly pushed out of the way by people celebrating the victory.

Additionally when I was in Vegas to watch the 2003 Mosconi Cup none of the big Casino sports books would take a bet on it, 2 had never even heard of it, including the MGM Grand where the tournament was held! The only person who paid any attention was a Philipino but as soon as he learnt Efren wasn't in it he lost interest. There's no point in dumping if there's no bet to win.
 
Earl

BiG_JoN said:
Colin,

I believe i remember what you are talking about.
Wasn't it a stretch shot for Earl (from the camera view, on the right side of the table)?
I believe at that time Earl had some severe Kidney Stones, and was in considerable pain, and waited until after the Cup to see a doctor.

So i wouldn't say that there was any intentional dumping.
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I just had kidney stones this past month and if Earl had them and wasn't himself I can certainly understand. I didn't want to stand-up. Let alone play pool
 
smoooothstroke said:
I know this is an old thread but how much $$ was bet?
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IIRC 50 dimes, BUT, the heavy bread (long odds) was on the side.

the "winner" was way the dog
 
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