The $$$ for the Pro's is weak this year so far...

[Fatboy]

I know the year isnt over yet but only 3 players have over $50,000 in winnings. With the price of traviling etc these guys wont be able to play pool because of simple economics. This looks like a 1986 payout schedual whan gas was $0.70/gallon. I'm not a doom and gloom kinda guy, but how the hell does this make sence to stay in pool as a profession. Its not like the sponsers are giving $$$ away. Brutal


Player Name
2008 Prize Money
Ralf Souquet
$117,486
Shane Van Boening
$70,750
Dennis Orcollo
$51,000
Niels Feijen
$48,437
Francisco Bustamante
$47,750
Jung-Lin Chang
$46,200
Alex Pagulayan
$42,703
Mika Immonen
$40,661
Johnny Archer
$37,265
Gabe Owen
$33,675

 

[corvette1340]

first.....

I think they should go to the blackjack table at the end of the year and put all of their earnings on one hand. If they win then it was a damn good year, if they lose then back to scuffling it is.

 

[Nostroke]

I know the year isnt over yet but only 3 players have over $50,000 in winnings. With the price of traviling etc these guys wont be able to play pool because of simple economics. This looks like a 1986 payout schedual whan gas was $0.70/gallon. I'm not a doom and gloom kinda guy, but how the hell does this make sence to stay in pool as a profession. Its not like the sponsers are giving $$$ away. Brutal


Player Name
2008 Prize Money
Ralf Souquet
$117,486
Shane Van Boening
$70,750
Dennis Orcollo
$51,000
Niels Feijen
$48,437
Francisco Bustamante
$47,750
Jung-Lin Chang
$46,200
Alex Pagulayan
$42,703
Mika Immonen
$40,661
Johnny Archer
$37,265
Gabe Owen
$33,675

It's been weak every one in the last 20 with the exception of the IPT year(s) and the year of the big prize in Tokyo won by Effie.

Anyone who thinks playing pro pool is a good economic move needs to be taught Economics Actually I shoud clarify-Anyone living in America. Pool may still be a viable occupaton in other areas of the World.

 

[Ed Simmons]

Fatboy, you are just looking at prize winnings that have been reported to AZB. These people make a whole ton of other money that doesn't show up on your list.

Look at Jeanette Lee for 2007 on AZB. Her number is $48,000. In parade magazine last month she had a reported income of over $700,000. And that's only her "reported" income, which leaves out a lot.

Kind of a big difference, Don't you think?

 

[Nostroke]

Fatboy, you are just looking at prize winnings that have been reported to AZB. These people make a whole ton of other money that doesn't show up on your list.

Look at Jeanette Lee for 2007 on AZB. Her number is $48,000. In parade magazine last month she had a reported income of over $700,000. And that's only her "reported" income, which leaves out a lot.

Kind of a big difference, Don't you think?

There is only one Jeanette! She is a marketing machine that transcends pool. As they say on TV "These results may not be typical"

Most players outside the top 5 have a stick sponsor at best. No $$ whatsoever.

 

[DeadPoked]

What it's worth to an individual to play the game he loves for sustenance compared to grinding out a 9 to 5 job that most hate, assign a monetary value and add that to their salary. That's what makes the difference in the course they've chosen for their lives.

 

[JustPlay]

I know the year isnt over yet but only 3 players have over $50,000 in winnings. With the price of traviling etc these guys wont be able to play pool because of simple economics. This looks like a 1986 payout schedual whan gas was $0.70/gallon. I'm not a doom and gloom kinda guy, but how the hell does this make sence to stay in pool as a profession. Its not like the sponsers are giving $$$ away. Brutal


Player Name
2008 Prize Money
Ralf Souquet
$117,486
Shane Van Boening
$70,750
Dennis Orcollo
$51,000
Niels Feijen
$48,437
Francisco Bustamante
$47,750
Jung-Lin Chang
$46,200
Alex Pagulayan
$42,703
Mika Immonen
$40,661
Johnny Archer
$37,265
Gabe Owen
$33,675

There are only 3 Americans on this list. Van Boening is the only one making money by actually playing champion caliber pool (but that will fade in a couple of years) and he hasn't had much in the way of sponsorship, just look at the short span of success of Cory Deuel! The rest have either given up or just cannot compete with the rest of the world any longer. It is a little sad that the US has not enbraced professional pool. The rest of the world has embraced and even excelled with events, promotions and sponsorships for its players...US professional Bowlers have a it better than "pro" pool players here in the USA.

The USA is just too saturated with football, baseball, basketball, golf, and tennis. Poker (internet and live) has taken away any interest from younger men with its instant "easy to learn", "make money now" WSOP, WPT promotions...

 

[Johnnyt]

If players want to make more money in pro pool a lot of things need to change. #1 Mainstrem America won't watch pool on TV. They don't want to see ball after ball go in and waiting 30 sec.to 2 min. a shot. They want to see a miss sometimes like they do at the table. The table has to be a lot harder or a NEW game much harder. #2 Get it together and form a pro org. #3 Pay someone with a proven track record in getting sponsers for other sports on TV. I could go on and on and so could most members of AZ. There are a lot of things that almost worked in past years. Copy what worked and tweak what didn't. Johnnyt

 

[jay helfert]

I know the year isnt over yet but only 3 players have over $50,000 in winnings. With the price of traviling etc these guys wont be able to play pool because of simple economics. This looks like a 1986 payout schedual whan gas was $0.70/gallon. I'm not a doom and gloom kinda guy, but how the hell does this make sence to stay in pool as a profession. Its not like the sponsers are giving $$$ away. Brutal


Player Name
2008 Prize Money
Ralf Souquet
$117,486
Shane Van Boening
$70,750
Dennis Orcollo
$51,000
Niels Feijen
$48,437
Francisco Bustamante
$47,750
Jung-Lin Chang
$46,200
Alex Pagulayan
$42,703
Mika Immonen
$40,661
Johnny Archer
$37,265
Gabe Owen
$33,675

This is pretty typical of the last 20+ years in professional pool. One guy will win 100K at the WPC and someone will win 50K at the U.S. Open. Otherwise money is pretty scarce for these guys. Didn't Dennis just win 40K in Qatar? I think his numbers are low here, because he's also won a couple of pretty good events in Asia. Maybe his 51K doesn't include his Qatar money yet.

 

[td873]

Sad that the pool world doesn't pay pros more. The disappointing truth is that being a pro player in many "B" sports is more like owning your own business rather than being a "normal" professional athlete. You have to pay your own way, cover your own expenses, pay all your overhead, AND on top of that you have to run the business (e.g., play pool).

But, on the other side of the coin, they are doing what they love and have made it their job. Just on the reported numbers above, the low pro (making $33K a year) is equivalient to a job that pays about $16/hr. I think there are many non-pro players in the world that would love to have a job that pays $16/hour. But, I also think that very few pro players would trade playing pool for a regular 9-5 job that guaranteed $35K a year.

Something to ponder: if the payouts went way up, do you think the top names on the leaderboard would stay the same? More money might create an entirely new class of players where today's top 10 might not even be in the top 20. Reaganomics might help them on the money side, but more competition might not. It's an interesting thought though: that there is so much talent out there not being realized because of the lack of money, but there is a lack of money because there is not enough talent participating to draw big sponsors. The bad part of this circle, is that it will take more than a quick infusion of money to get players to crawl out of the wood work (e.g., quit jobs to play pool, or parents encouraging their kids to be pro players). It's going to take a long term stable pool economy to prove that pool is a viable profession.

I hope I live long enough to see it happen!

-td

 

[jamesroberts]

first.....

I think they should go to the blackjack table at the end of the year and put all of their earnings on one hand. If they win then it was a damn good year, if they lose then back to scuffling it is.

i agree i personally like the "stick and move"

 

[JAM]

Anybody who has actively followed the tournament trail is well aware that those figures are nothing more than fluff. Yes, that's right. Fluff.

First off, they do not reflect the players' earnings. There are MANY events that do not make the players' earnings on that list.

Secondly, the expenses for playing pool far exceed the payouts.

To give just one example, to go to the U.S. Open, 8 days in duration to include the players meeting night, it costs my household about $2,500 to $3,000 in the year 2008. I live 3 hours from there. With the entry fee, lodging, travel expenses, food, and the miscellaneous expenses that ALWAYS come up, that's the nut you have to overcome. The entry fee, by the way, just went up this year to $600.

Sure, I could stay at a dump 20 or 30 miles away and eat at McDonald's all 8 days and maybe get it down to $1,800 or $2,000. No, thank you. And then there's the players who share a room, some even sleeping on the floor. Definitely no, thank you.

For every $100,000 earned, if it is an international player, I would guesstimate that the expenses to make that $100,000, consisting of multiple tournament wins, was 40 percent. Yep, 40 percent sounds like the right number to me.

The Qatar tournament, as one example, would cost an American about $3,500 in expenses. If you win $5,000 for placing in the money (5th through 8th place out of 96 players), how much are you pocketing? And worse yet, what if you don't make the money rounds like Johnny Archer this year? He's gotta make that money up somewhere. Of course, Johnny Archer is one of the fortunate ones to have a sponsor(s) and a stakehorse. He is the rare exception. Shane Van Boening does have sponsorship, but I am not sure about Shane's situation, whether he gets 100 percent of his expenses paid or whether he pays some of his own way. That said, the tournament in Qatar was open to more Americans if they came. No American made the choice to go, other than the ones (Johnny and Shane) who had their expenses compensated in one form or another.

Today, players will pick their tournaments wisely. When you see pool champions, UPA members, and ball bangers who think they got a chance to win and/or make money coming on Azbilliards requesting sponsorship and backers, that speaks volumes.

JAM

 

[Nine Ball]

Joking with you but it is perfect

I know the year isnt over yet but only 3 players have over $50,000 in winnings. With the price of traviling etc these guys wont be able to play pool because of simple economics. This looks like a 1986 payout schedual whan gas was $0.70/gallon. I'm not a doom and gloom kinda guy, but how the hell does this make sence to stay in pool as a profession. Its not like the sponsers are giving $$$ away. Brutal


Player Name
2008 Prize Money
Ralf Souquet
$117,486
Shane Van Boening
$70,750
Dennis Orcollo
$51,000
Niels Feijen
$48,437
Francisco Bustamante
$47,750
Jung-Lin Chang
$46,200
Alex Pagulayan
$42,703
Mika Immonen
$40,661
Johnny Archer
$37,265
Gabe Owen
$33,675

Fatboy

Misspelling words since 1st grade :grin-square:

Make it your sig line instead of the other.. Come on it's perfect.. :wink:

 

[Craig Fales]

What it's worth to an individual to play the game he loves for sustenance compared to grinding out a 9 to 5 job that most hate, assign a monetary value and add that to their salary and that's what makes the difference in the course they've chosen for their lives.

Good post...what job could you do where you travel the country or world in some cases. When I see gripes about the state of pool they're not looking at the big picture...

 

[SCCues]

When you compare the money in pool to other sports it's a shame. The skill that it takes to play at the top level in pool is higher than some other sports that pay many times what the top pool players make.

I hope things change one day and the pro pool players can make the kind of money they should be making, but it will take some big sponsors to get involved for it to happen.

James

 

[Johnnyt]

Jam is right. When you subtract travel, food, entry fees, motel, and other small expenses, 99% of tournament players are neg $, unless they have a sponser.

I can't argue with the people that are asking how much is it worth to be doing what you love? But when I was a kid I wanted to be a pro pool player. When I was about 16 I figured out that if I ever wanted to have enough money to do the things I wanted to do and have and support a family that pool wasn't the way to go. I guess I just didn't love it enough...thank God.

We all compare pool salaries to other sports. I compare them to other jobs. Very few can be a pro in more than one sport, but jobs you can. An RN makes between 45 to 70 k depending where you live for two years of schooling. An LPN makes about 32 to 40 with one year schooling. A locksmith makes about 40 to 50 K with six months school and six months on the job training. Hell, a one truck landscape company can make 100K a year.

While I believe that a very small percentage is so in love with the game that they feel they have no time to do anything else...me thinks a lot of them are just too lazy to go to work. Johnnyt

 

[JAM]

Jam is right. When you subtract travel, food, entry fees, motel, and other small expenses 99% of tournament players are neg $, unless they have a sponser.

I can't argue with the people that are asking how much is it worth to be doing what you love? But when I was a kid I wanted to be a pro pool player. When I was about 16 I figured out that if I ever wanted to have enough money to do the things I wanted to do and have and support a family that pool wasn't the way to go. I guess I just didn't love it enough...thank God.

We all compare pool salaries to other sports. I compare them to other jobs. Very few can be a pro in more than one sport, but jobs you can. An RN makes between 45 to 70 k depending where you live for two years of schooling. An LPN makes about 32 to 40 with one year schooling. A locksmith makes about 40 to 50 K with six months school and six months on the job training. Hell, a one truck landscape company can make 100K a year.

While I believe that a very small percentage is so in love with the game that they feel they have no time to do anything else...me thinks a lot of them are just too lazy to go to work. Johnnyt

I fell in love with pool all over again in the autumn of my life, and I am so very happy I didn't quit my day job. Though I wasn't playing pool, I followed that continental American tournament trail quite closely for five or six years. I soon found out there's no place like home, pool is cruel to its own, and I kind of like having a roof over my head.

When you see Hall of Famers, multiple world championship-titled players, and pool phenoms struggling to make ends meet, it tells the whole story.

I can count on one hand which American players are 100-percent fully sponsored and/or staked, and I wouldn't even use all five fingers. :frown:

Everything's funny when you're winning big money, but things aren't quite as funny when the bills come rolling in, you have a two kids and a wife, with no job other than you're a pool champion.

With the cost of gas going up, it's going to get worse before it gets better. I paid over $4 yesterday for three stinking apples. Apples!

JAM

 

[corvette1340]

Jam is right. When you subtract travel, food, entry fees, motel, and other small expenses 99% of tournament players are neg $, unless they have a sponser.

I can't argue with the people that are asking how much is it worth to be doing what you love? But when I was a kid I wanted to be a pro pool player. When I was about 16 I figured out that if I ever wanted to have enough money to do the things I wanted to do and have and support a family that pool wasn't the way to go. I guess I just didn't love it enough...thank God.

We all compare pool salaries to other sports. I compare them to other jobs. Very few can be a pro in more than one sport, but jobs you can. An RN makes between 45 to 70 k depending where you live for two years of schooling. An LPN makes about 32 to 40 with one year schooling. A locksmith makes about 40 to 50 K with six months school and six months on the job training. Hell, a one truck landscape company can make 100K a year.

While I believe that a very small percentage is so in love with the game that they feel they have no time to do anything else...me thinks a lot of them are just too lazy to go to work. Johnnyt

I think you hit the nail on the head there Johnny. While I agree that being a professional pool player requires a great skill, it is easy to recognize why it doesn't pay more. The sad truth is that the majority of people have no interest in the sport thereby making it tough to appeal to the masses. If everyone had the interests of the people of AZ then we would see bigger payouts and more sponsors. Since those aren't the case, it amazes me that some of the pro players continue to cry and moan over the low payouts and how they can't make ends meet when they won't do anything else to help themselves.

 

[JAM]

I think you hit the nail on the head there Johnny. While I agree that being a professional pool player requires a great skill, it is easy to recognize why it doesn't pay more. The sad truth is that the majority of people have no interest in the sport thereby making it tough to appeal to the masses. If everyone had the interests of the people of AZ then we would see bigger payouts and more sponsors. Since those aren't the case, it amazes me that some of the pro players continue to cry and moan over the low payouts and how they can't make ends meet when they won't do anything else to help themselves.

Please list which pro players on this forum that you are speaking of who "continue to cry and moan." List the names of the pro players with which you make reference to.

JAM

 

[corvette1340]

Please list which pro players on this forum that you are speaking of who "continue to cry and moan." List the names of the pro players with which you make reference to.

JAM

pro players and people in general. I wasn't thinking of anyone specific. I was only stating my opinion on the money situation in pool and how I believe the players or anyone that isn't making ends meet should handle things. Basically, I am saying that if my employer came up to me tomorrow and said that I was only gonna be making a fourth of what Im making now then I would seek other employment opportunities or go into business myself.