The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

ridewiththewind

ridewiththewind

♥ Hippie Hustler ♥
Silver Member
Alrighty then!! Here's my take on this entire 'good feedback/bad feedback' issue:

First off...if all that is going to be allowed/tolerated here is positive feedback, then really, what is the point to all the posts and sticky? To me, it just becomes a waste of bandwidth.

While having positive feedback posts can be valuable, so can negative feedback,, and for the very same reasons. Trust me, I REALLY want to know when things go awry...so that I may avoid similar headaches/monetary losses.

While it is very easy to say something positive, saying something negative is a bit trickier proposition. Often times, matters can be worked out privately. When this is not the case, one may wish to start out being somewhat generalized, and UNEMOTIONAL, as to the issue. And avoiding naming names right off the get-go may help to resolve some issues as well. ONLY AS A LAST RESORT!...should the offending member's name be unveiled. If the first two steps do not acheive results, then usually the offending member isn't willing to 'make right'.

Now...I am really against these 'roll-over' threads as of late. Get it hashed out in one thread...not over 3,4,5.....you get the picture.

Bad shafts.....should have been handles originally as...."I ordered some shafts from a respected cuemaker, and they are just not really 'up to snuff', and here's why, and any suggestions as to how to handle this situation?" The responses may well have been positive and productive than immediately naming the cuemaker's name, which can just get the whole 'good guy/bad guy' thing going.

The above could also hold true for anyone unhappy about any workmanship thay recieve from either a cuemaker or a cue repair person.

At any rate, it is really important to try and keep level heads, and keep the emotions out of it completely....once they enter in, usually a possible resolution is all but out the window. It really is possible to post a dissatisfaction and be nice about it.

Example: Shorty sent a cue to Proficient to have some work done. He was not happy with the result, for whatever reason. Scot responded, in a very unemotional manner, and eventually the matter was resolved....with a whole lot less unpleasantness than has been exhibited as of late.

As I have already stated, there is really no point to feedback if it is only going to be positive. If that is the way it's going to be, then just do away with it completely, and caveat emptor!!

Lisa...who truly believes that you will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar!
 
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IMHO, the biggest problem with posting any feedback on here is, that it is not just a statement....the end. It evolves into a good old boys club on the positive side, and when there is a negative... you have people who have nothing to do with the purchase, service etc sticking their noses where they don't belong, because "I have dealt with so and so and never had a problem..."
If there should be any feedback, it should be kept to a minimum of would you, or would you not do business with that person again. The why is not even important, because most people are not capable of stating something without it turning into name calling and or defamation of character. And everybody else who likes to stick their noses in with their opinions do nothing but fuel the fire.
I have made several trades and purchases through this forum, and have never had any problem with anyone. If I did, I would handle it in private.... if that didn't work, take it as a lesson learned and move on. Everyone feels that they are owed something I guess.
Bottom line is this, if you enter into a deal with someone you don't know, and cant see face to face........ you really shouldn't whine if you get the short end of the stick.... it happens from time to time. Creating drama and a load of bull on here does nothing but hurt the community and the people who are involved in the arguments reputation. I know misery loves company, but please stop and think about the future, of this board, of your happiness, and of the other persons reputation. If you make enough waves, the boat will turn over.
Chuck
PS, before anyone says anything, my statements and opinions are generalizations. Not talking about a specific person, people or situation.
 
nobody said posting about negative transactions is not allowed.. sure its allowed.. i think if you have a bad transaction you should post about it.. but dont resort to name calling and all.. state the facts... and if its possible to keep it private.. it should be kept private first.. i think nomatter what happens, when somebod posts something negative, all the members get involved (which isnt a bad thing) except, they start giving their opinions no matter what the facts are and they blow everything completely out of proportion...

if there was something wrong and the two people involved cant work it out privately, all we are asking is that they dont resort to fighting.. because then more people get involved and before you know it there is 10 threads of people fighting and it is looking bad for everyone...

i think alot of people who see this happen are afraid that if the fighting escalates all the time, they are going to get rid of the for sale section making it that the easiest way to deal with it... i dont want to see that happen.. i think everyone can comprimise...

last.. i think the forum can keep the buyer /seller transaction section because its a GOOD THING for everybody.. nobody said you cant post about that bad transaction.. i believe the forum cannot sanction a BAD SELLER/ or BAD BUYER section because it will start problems right away.. and then people who are getting attacked can blame the forum for all their problems.. and probably could hold the forum legally responcible..

i think like other people said. everyone needs to respect each other and not go crazy like they have been.. and people not involved need to be biased or even if they take sides.. they need to keep from making it a personal attack..

i dont know if this all makes sense.. but its my honest opinion. and i am sure alot of people feel the same..
chis
 
Negative feedback should be posted, if its TRUE. If you get tagged for embellishment, false accusations you should be banned. Plain and simple. This is clearly the case in point. To come here and say 2.5 oz when they are 3.5 / 3.25 goes above and beyond exaggeration. As well as the other halftruths that were posted. It's easy to post something when the other party isn't present or refuses to engage in hostilities.

What this poster should have done is ask how much a shaft out of normal grade a shaftwood weighs with a phenolic collar, no insert. 3/8 pin thread and a ferrule. Of course taper dependent. He might have gotten educated.

JV (---teaches digital scale reading 101
 
Maybe some examples can be taken form other forums. I am a member of http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/index.php? and have to give them a much higher score than AZ. They have very easy to follow rules that are enforced. They are an 18k memer forum that operates on a much more mature level than AZ. They are not perfect but maybe some things can be learned and applied that would make AZ even better. For example:

1) they have a specific thread for feedback--cheers and jeers. This is the only area is designed just for this purpose. You do not see anything other than sales threads in the sales section--as it should be

2) all sales threads must include a price-or they will be deleted. Now I know here most do not include a price --for several reasons but under their policy there is no trashing allowed in the sales thread. That being said if someone does not agree with the sellers listing price you can either PM them or shut the heck up--you are not allowed to post saying the price is out of line.

These are just a few examples but they do not have the petty back and forth that occures all too often on AZ. When there is a problem between members you can find it (in jeers) but you do not have to see it every time you want to see what new is for sale...Check it out as it can not hurt to implement a few changes here. I enjoy AZ and want it to grow but some thing have to help this site and our billiards love grow.
 
I own a Rottweiler Forum and I started it with one Cardinal rule. No member can direct a post at another member "personally".

Which means if someone posts they like the color BLUE, you can say blue is an ugly color, blue is the wrong color, etc.........BUT you can't call the person stupid for liking the color.

If you do you get a "private" warning. And no "warnings" are disclosed on the public forum by EITHER party.
 
You can't leave it alone can you A-hole? You are the one that is a lying, deceptive, embittered little jerk that has nothing better to do than intrude in other's matters. I think you need to be banned for being an ignorant lying half-wit. If you're going to open your big mouth, get the facts straight. I'll say this again to see if it gets through you're ignorant head...."mind your own business"!

Doug




classiccues said:
Negative feedback should be posted, if its TRUE. If you get tagged for embellishment, false accusations you should be banned. Plain and simple. This is clearly the case in point. To come here and say 2.5 oz when they are 3.5 / 3.25 goes above and beyond exaggeration. As well as the other halftruths that were posted. It's easy to post something when the other party isn't present or refuses to engage in hostilities.

What this poster should have done is ask how much a shaft out of normal grade a shaftwood weighs with a phenolic collar, no insert. 3/8 pin thread and a ferrule. Of course taper dependent. He might have gotten educated.

JV (---teaches digital scale reading 101
Click to expand...
 
Salamander said:
You can't leave it alone can you A-hole? You are the one that is a lying, deceptive, embittered little jerk that has nothing better to do than intrude in other's matters. I think you need to be banned for being an ignorant lying half-wit. If you're going to open your big mouth, get the facts straight. I'll say this again to see if it gets through you're ignorant head...."mind your own business"!

Doug
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Hey Jeff... I realize Doug's post is probably pretty mild and not so direct, but would this post be what you mean by a personal attack?

=)
 
PetreeCues said:
Hey Jeff... I realize Doug's post is probably pretty mild and not so direct, but would this post be what you mean by a personal attack?

=)
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If he had already received a warning and posted that post, he would be gone so fast, he wouldn't have time to say goodbye.
 
ridewiththewind said:
Alrighty then!! Here's my take on this entire 'good feedback/bad feedback' issue:

First off...if all that is going to be allowed/tolerated here is positive feedback, then really, what is the point to all the posts and sticky? To me, it just becomes a waste of bandwidth.

While having positive feedback posts can be valuable, so can negative feedback,, and for the very same reasons. Trust me, I REALLY want to know when things go awry...so that I may avoid similar headaches/monetary losses.

While it is very easy to say something positive, saying something negative is a bit trickier proposition. Often times, matters can be worked out privately. When this is not the case, one may wish to start out being somewhat generalized, and UNEMOTIONAL, as to the issue. And avoiding naming names right off the get-go may help to resolve some issues as well. ONLY AS A LAST RESORT!...should the offending member's name be unveiled. If the first two steps do not acheive results, then usually the offending member isn't willing to 'make right'.


As I have already stated, there is really no point to feedback if it is only going to be positive. If that is the way it's going to be, then just do away with it completely, and caveat emptor!!

Lisa...who truly believes that you will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar!
Click to expand...

Well said Lisa, I agree that we need to have both sides, I for one am sick of the a$$ kissing posts that are so painfully obvious ads. It's clear for some people here who know the players to see praise poured onto someone just because that person got the cue cheap or because they are trying to sell the cue or push the maker. It will all come out in the wash, if 50 people post that a cue is great and 1 or 2 post something bad then you weigh out the odds and make you're own choice. If 5 people say a guy is a crook and 5 say he's good then again you have a tough choice, but let's have the option. People give good reviews for MANY reasons and not all are truthful, the same could happen for the reverse and I think we all know it, both sides tend to lie to make their points, it's part of life.
One thing to keep in mind is that some of us watch to see how the situation gets handled and as in the shorty case the cue maker can come out looking good (or bad) depending on how he stands behind his work. I for one don't give a crap about the ass kissing agenda posts and want to hear the trouble posts, most reputable people will have an abundance of good and very few bad.

Jim
 
RiverCity said:
I have made several trades and purchases through this forum, and have never had any problem with anyone. If I did, I would handle it in private.... if that didn't work, take it as a lesson learned and move on. .
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The problem there is by keeping your mouth shut you screw the next guy as well and you let the crook continue until he screws someone who does post about it. The reason we are a community is to share things, good deals as well as bad to help each other out. I agree things should be handled in private, but when that fails you need to share with the community so we can all help each other from problems, or help each other out with good deals as well. As I’ve said we are all educated adults and can form our own opinions as to who to deal with, but it’s an easier task when you are presented with all of the facts. Sure you can still get screwed, but you’ll go in with a better chance not to.

Jim
 
JimBo said:
As I’ve said we are all educated adults and can form our own opinions as to who to deal with, but it’s an easier task when you are presented with all of the facts.

Jim
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And therein lays the problem. One guy is screaming the shafts weighed 2.5 and the next guy says they weighed 3.5

One guy screams the other guy won't refund his money and way down the line we find out he never even asked for a refund.

Once the lies are posted, the damage has been done.

It's like a newspaper printing an article saying the Mayor is a dead-beat dad and then printing a retraction two days later. People always remember the accusation long after the retraction has faded from memory.
 
Jeff, we'll never know the truth .. but based on evidences presented we can make up our own mind whom to believe, no?
 
Jazz said:
Jeff, we'll never know the truth .. but based on evidences presented we can make up our own mind whom to believe, no?
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Well actually it all boils down to the rules and regulations the owner of the forum wants to use.

But whatever the rules are they HAVE to be applied to every member the same.
 
The problem there is by keeping your mouth shut you screw the next guy as well and you let the crook continue until he screws someone who does post about it.
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Agreed, thats what Im talking about when I said if a statement is to be made, it should be "yes I would do business with blank again", or "I would recommend not doing business with blank"
Doesnt require a name smearing contest to make someone feel better about themselves for not asking enough, or the right questions before jumping feet first into a transaction with someone they do not know and dont have one on one access to.
Giving feedback as I stated above relays the message just fine, and gives people the ability to make their decisions clearly.
Chuck
 
JimBo said:
Well said Lisa, I agree that we need to have both sides, I for one am sick of the a$$ kissing posts that are so painfully obvious ads.
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well i did remember once on my 2nd transaction with Aaron that I praised him and then everyone else who did have bad transactions with him, just jumped in and continued to say how bad a dealer he was.

When i do have a good transaction/deal, I would just say it that way, if it was bad, I would say it was bad and leave it as it is. I wouldn't go into another thread which after someone has praised him to smear the thread. that imo is very immature.

Have a good transaction, put it as it is. Have a bad one, leave a note on it. and then move along for both!

it is a pity these get dragged into different threads long after it is done.
 
classiccues said:
Really? What do the shafts weigh?

JV
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Everything that you have heard about these shafts you heard by phone from Skip Weston. That is called hearsay. You have no business commenting on anything having to do with my business with Skip Weston since you are not involved in any way with the transaction. Skip himself has asked you to refrain from getting involved in this discussion. Why? Because he wants to try and resolve our problems without someone else, who has NO knowlege of what is involved, coming in and stirring up the pot.

I promised Skip that I would refrain from discussing or addressing specifics about the "shafts". I will not sit idly by however, when you attack me. Your initial post was full of inconsistancy and lies. Typical of someone who can't possibly know the facts who heard information by phone. I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM ENGAGING IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE SHAFTS, BUT IT WILL BE ONLY WITH SKIP WESTON.

FOR EVERYONE ELSE WHO HAS A NEED TO KNOW, SKIP WESTON IS MAKING ME NEW SHAFTS BECAUSE THE "OLD SHAFTS" , AS SKIP WESTON EXPLAINED, "COULD NOT BE REPAIRED WITH ANY SATISFACTORY RESULTS". DOES THAT SAY ENOUGH?

As far as me being banned....if I get banned for defending myself against this moron classiccues, so be it. However, if I'm allowed to continue to post, and classiccues follows me around like a rabid dog, perhaps the administrators need to ban him?

Doug
 
You both need to knock it off.

Neither of you has even been approached by me yet with a warning or otherwise, but it appears I may be late in my actions.

Jerks, liars, morons etc......

Re-read the forum rules and stick with them.


Other than that, what's it going to be?
Your choice.
 
Mr Wilson,

Your forum rules are fine by me. However, I'll bet that classiccues will be unable to abide by your rules. As he continues to harass me, I will send you a message alerting you to it. Fair enough?

Regards,

Doug


Mr. Wilson said:
You both need to knock it off.

Neither of you has even been approached by me yet with a warning or otherwise, but it appears I may be late in my actions.

Jerks, liars, morons etc......

Re-read the forum rules and stick with them.


Other than that, what's it going to be?
Your choice.
Click to expand...
 
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