The History of 9 Ball Pool???

[HawaiianEye]

The more people describe that old style 9 Ball, the less I like it. I'm positive I like Texas Express better. Although, I agree with Earl Strickland. You ought to have to kick at the ball. He jumps, but only because everyone else does. He'd rather everyone kick at it.

If you ask Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall, Keith McCready, CJ Wiley, or just about any of the old school players, they will tell you that the new rules suck compared to the old way.

In my opinion, and most of theirs, the new rules have made the game WORSE.

Everyone has an opinion, so it is up to the individual to determine what they like best.

Earl doesn't like jump cues...neither do I. Neither do most of the people who learned to play years ago.

They don't like the fastest cloths and rails in the world either.

Everything was sped up to make things faster...not necessarily BETTER.

Everyone now will say that the current players could beat the players from long ago, but they are comparing it using today's environment.

Today's game is nothing like before. Back in the day, there were more "power" players than today. You had to "stroke" the ball to get it around the table. You couldn't "bunt" it like today with the fast cloth and rails.

Most players today would go down a level, or two, if you made them play on old school tables. I see it every weekend when I watch them go from one table that is fast and they are used to playing on all the time and then are put on a slow table. They don't have the "stroke" for the power shots to drive the cue ball several rails. They may be able to "bunt" the ball accurately, but they don't have the same accuracy when they have to actually hit the ball with any "oomph".

 

[pt109]

The more people describe that old style 9 Ball, the less I like it. I'm positive I like Texas Express better. Although, I agree with Earl Strickland. You ought to have to kick at the ball. He jumps, but only because everyone else does. He'd rather everyone kick at it.

It’s jump cues that Earl doesn’t like.
Earl is the first guy to make jumping an important skill...
...but he did it with a full length cue.

 

[9 Ball Fan]

It’s jump cues that Earl doesn’t like.
Earl is the first guy to make jumping an important skill...
...but he did it with a full length cue.

I watched an interview with Earl, in which he said both. He said he'd rather you had to kick at the ball; but if you were going to jump, do it with your playing cue.

This is one of those rare occasions, when both opposing statements are actually true. We're both right.

Efren is the best I've ever seen at kicking at balls. He's ridiculously good at it. I think Efren could have impressed Luther Lassiter. Can you just imagine that head to head matchup? Efren vs Luther!!!

 

[pt109]

I watched an interview with Earl, in which he said both. He said he'd rather you had to kick at the ball; but if you were going to jump, do it with your playing cue.

This is one of those rare occasions, when both opposing statements are actually true. We're both right.

Efren is the best I've ever seen at kicking at balls. He's ridiculously good at it. I think Efren could have impressed Luther Lassiter. Can you just imagine that head to head matchup? Efren vs Luther!!!

I think Wimpy would’ve won at 9-ball and 14.1
I think Efren would’ve won at everything else.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I think Wimpy would’ve won at 9-ball....

Playing "two shot roll out" or current TX Express? Or both?

 

[Pushout]

The more people describe that old style 9 Ball, the less I like it. I'm positive I like Texas Express better. Although, I agree with Earl Strickland. You ought to have to kick at the ball. He jumps, but only because everyone else does. He'd rather everyone kick at it.

A LOT of people who have never played that game feel that way. I've shown people raised on Texas Express how to play push out 9 ball and they agreed it was a much better way to play.

 

[pt109]

Playing "two shot roll out" or current TX Express? Or both?

I doubt if Wimpy ever played Texas Express...certainly not in his prime.
....but a great 14.1 would’ve adapted ....still like Wimpy in that one.

 

[1pocket]

Jansco Brothers at Johnston City

It was George Jansco at the Johnston City tournament in 1965 where for the first time 9-Ball was played “On any foul (except the break), opponent may place the cue ball anywhere on the table.” -- that is from the JC 1965 9-Ball rules!! That's a good 15-20 years before Texas Express. But in the action room at JC I am sure push out was still the way it was played. Eddie Taylor of course pushed out to a bank. Harold Worst to a table length thin slice.

Incidentally, their first all-around tournament in 1962 had to have been one of the first major 9-ball tournaments ever. If anyone knows of an earlier one, please let me know, because I have not found one. George and Paulie should be in the BCA HOF for Meritous Service for sure. They are the ones that revived pool in the 60's, along with the Hustler Movie, and a lot of help from the Fat Man

 

[Michael Andros]

I doubt if Wimpy ever played Texas Express...certainly not in his prime.
....but a great 14.1 would’ve adapted ....still like Wimpy in that one.

PT - Wern't the Janscos using TE at Johnston City starting in 61? If so, Wimpy definitely would've been playing it, considering he won the 9 ball div like... every frickin year. Wasn't that the case? Or am I confused...

 

[Michael Andros]

It was George Jansco at the Johnston City tournament in 1965 where for the first time 9-Ball was played “On any foul (except the break), opponent may place the cue ball anywhere on the table.” -- that is from the JC 1965 9-Ball rules!! That's a good 15-20 years before Texas Express. But in the action room at JC I am sure push out was still the way it was played. Eddie Taylor of course pushed out to a bank. Harold Worst to a table length thin slice.

Incidentally, their first all-around tournament in 1962 had to have been one of the first major 9-ball tournaments ever. If anyone knows of an earlier one, please let me know, because I have not found one. George and Paulie should be in the BCA HOF for Meritous Service for sure. They are the ones that revived pool in the 60's, along with the Hustler Movie, and a lot of help from the Fat Man

Just saw this... answers my question.

 

[pt109]

Playing "two shot roll out" or current TX Express? Or both?

I doubt if Wimpy ever played Texas Express...certainly not in his prime.
....but a great 14.1 would’ve adapted ....still like Wimpy in that one.

It was George Jansco at the Johnston City tournament in 1965 where for the first time 9-Ball was played “On any foul (except the break), opponent may place the cue ball anywhere on the table.” -- that is from the JC 1965 9-Ball rules!! That's a good 15-20 years before Texas Express. But in the action room at JC I am sure push out was still the way it was played. Eddie Taylor of course pushed out to a bank. Harold Worst to a table length thin slice.

Incidentally, their first all-around tournament in 1962 had to have been one of the first major 9-ball tournaments ever. If anyone knows of an earlier one, please let me know, because I have not found one. George and Paulie should be in the BCA HOF for Meritous Service for sure. They are the ones that revived pool in the 60's, along with the Hustler Movie, and a lot of help from the Fat Man

PT - Wern't the Janscos using TE at Johnston City starting in 61? If so, Wimpy definitely would've been playing it, considering he won the 9 ball div like... every frickin year. Wasn't that the case? Or am I confused...

A piece of history I didn’t know about...or certainly slept.
...and that’s why AZ is my favorite pool site.

First time I became aware of TE was in the early 80s...east Detroit...small tournament.
...gambled in the room for two days after...we played roll out.

 

[Michael Andros]

A piece of history I didn’t know about...or certainly slept.
...and that’s why AZ is my favorite pool site.

First time I became aware of TE was in the early 80s...east Detroit...small tournament.
...gambled in the room for two days after...we played roll out.

Hell, PT, I sleep almost *everything*. And, I've gotten lost going from the kitchen to the bathroom! I'm a hot mess. Compared to me, you're Mr. Right-On-The-Beam!!!

 

[pt109]

Hell, PT, I sleep almost *everything*. And, I've gotten lost going from the kitchen to the bathroom! I'm a hot mess. Compared to me, you're Mr. Right-On-The-Beam!!!

Well, Michael, I aint exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer....
...I used to think that a joint protector was a door-man.
:boring2:

 

[Michael Andros]

Well, Michael, I aint exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer....
...I used to think that a joint protector was a door-man.
:boring2:

Ha! And I always thought it was one of those old metal cig cases we used to carry 'em around in! :grin-square:

 

[9 Ball Fan]

Back in the 1980's, ESPN covered a "Legends of Pocket Billards" type of tournament. They had it at least 2 years in a row. You can watch videos of matches on YouTube now. During the videos I watched, they mention who had won the same event the year prior. I figured you guys were aware of this?

They played 7 Ball, and 9 Ball (TE). Lassiter, Fats, Crane, Wiley, etc. Mosconi was in attendance, but not playing that year for a medical reason. Go check it out!!!

 

[HawaiianEye]

It was George Jansco at the Johnston City tournament in 1965 where for the first time 9-Ball was played “On any foul (except the break), opponent may place the cue ball anywhere on the table.” -- that is from the JC 1965 9-Ball rules!! That's a good 15-20 years before Texas Express. But in the action room at JC I am sure push out was still the way it was played. Eddie Taylor of course pushed out to a bank. Harold Worst to a table length thin slice.

Incidentally, their first all-around tournament in 1962 had to have been one of the first major 9-ball tournaments ever. If anyone knows of an earlier one, please let me know, because I have not found one. George and Paulie should be in the BCA HOF for Meritous Service for sure. They are the ones that revived pool in the 60's, along with the Hustler Movie, and a lot of help from the Fat Man

Did it state anything about a "push" or "3 fouls"?

 

[sjm]

I doubt if Wimpy ever played Texas Express...certainly not in his prime.
....but a great 14.1 would’ve adapted ....still like Wimpy in that one.

Lassiter tried playing Texas Express in the mid-80's in an old-timers event in Atlantic City which I attended. Most of his skills were still top notch, but he, predictably, had a hard time with the defense and kicking.

Lassiter was, in the eyes of more than a few, the best ball pocketer in the game's history. One shot shootout nine ball was a shotmaker's game, and it suited Lassiter perfectly.

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

It was George Jansco at the Johnston City tournament in 1965 where for the first time 9-Ball was played “On any foul (except the break), opponent may place the cue ball anywhere on the table.” -- that is from the JC 1965 9-Ball rules!! That's a good 15-20 years before Texas Express. But in the action room at JC I am sure push out was still the way it was played. Eddie Taylor of course pushed out to a bank. Harold Worst to a table length thin slice.

Incidentally, their first all-around tournament in 1962 had to have been one of the first major 9-ball tournaments ever. If anyone knows of an earlier one, please let me know, because I have not found one. George and Paulie should be in the BCA HOF for Meritous Service for sure. They are the ones that revived pool in the 60's, along with the Hustler Movie, and a lot of help from the Fat Man

When Weenie Beenie opened his room in 67'. His tourneys were 14.1. I believe The Miz won every one ! In 69' or 70' , he started having 9 ball tourneys. They played race to 11 and pushout. It took forever, of course it was an all nite room. About that time, he talked to the janscos ( he had played ther a number of times ) and came up with basically the same rules for 'tournament ' 9 ball. Scratch on the break, CB behind the line. ALL balls spotted. Any foul after that was BIH anywhere. Make a ball and scratch, BIH but the pocked ball was spotted. Make the 9 and scratch, 9 on the spot, CB behind the line......spot shot ! Players would come to the tourneys, play those 1 foul rules, then go to gamblin at pushout !From 71' to 80' , I might have seen 1-2 gamblin games using the 1 foul rules. Pushout was played as who committed the 2nd consecutive foul. The 2 fouls by the same resulted in nits just going push-push push push Ad Infinitum. The best players in the country came to bennies every month for years.
TE came in running big tourneys in 2 days. They destroyed the game just to make it FAST . They already had the players money. They wanted to 'get it over with' and get out of town with the cash ! BTW, TE took well over half the cash out of the tourney. THats what killed them in the end.
Now, the players have learned all the safes and kicks making the game 'longer' by far.

 

[HawaiianEye]

When Weenie Beenie opened his room in 67'. His tourneys were 14.1. I believe The Miz won every one ! In 69' or 70' , he started having 9 ball tourneys. They played race to 11 and pushout. It took forever, of course it was an all nite room. About that time, he talked to the janscos ( he had played ther a number of times ) and came up with basically the same rules for 'tournament ' 9 ball. Scratch on the break, CB behind the line. ALL balls spotted. Any foul after that was BIH anywhere. Make a ball and scratch, BIH but the pocked ball was spotted. Make the 9 and scratch, 9 on the spot, CB behind the line......spot shot ! Players would come to the tourneys, play those 1 foul rules, then go to gamblin at pushout !From 71' to 80' , I might have seen 1-2 gamblin games using the 1 foul ruPushout was played as who committed the 2nd consecutive foul. The 2 fouls by the same les. resulted in nits just going push-push push push Ad Infinitum. The best players in the country came to bennies every month for years.
TE came in running big tourneys in 2 days. They destroyed the game just to make it FAST . They already had the players money. They wanted to 'get it over with' and get out of town with the cash ! BTW, TE took well over half the cash out of the tourney. THats what killed them in the end.
Now, the players have learned all the safes and kicks making the game 'longer' by far.

IMO, the new game is far inferior to the old game.

It is "watered down".