The IPT should thank Mike Zuglan

[cueball1950]

I posted this during another thread, but i figure it belongs here instead.

I believe that the IPT should call and thank Mike Zuglan personally for letting the IPT promo people come to his tournament at Turning Stone Casino and film some promo interviews with some players. From what i understand, when the IPT called and asked Turning Stone Casino if they could come and do their taping, the Casino left it up to Mike Zuglan to decide. And Mike having no ill will or vendetta against them for not getting picked said yes to letting them come. Just shows what a class act Mike Zuglan and his tour are for sure......way to go Mike..................................mike

 

[cueball1950]

amazing

74 previews and no one agrees about mike zuglan being thanked.......mike

 

[sjm]

I'm a Mike Zuglan fan and know he's done a whole lot for our sport.

Nonetheless, I didn't know what to make of this. If I ran a regional pro pool tour, I would understand that if the IPT raised the profile of the sport, I would be among the beneficiaries. To me, allowing the IPT access is just good business.

Correct me if I'm missing the bigger picture here.

 

[jjinfla]

I agree SJM. I too thought it was just good business. If anything Zuglan should thank KT for bringing the IPT there. I am sure the pool room owner appreciates the free publicity he may derive from it.

I wonder if the IPT paid for the privilege to film there? New cloth, cash, etc.?

Jake

 

[cueball1950]

Jake....since this was in a Casino there were no pool rooms involved. therefore no publicity can be gained by anyone. And like i said, the casino left the decision up to mike and mike alone. Mike did not benefit from this, nor did the casino and none of the many interviews i saw being done had any casino ads or any type of advertisement for the casino in the back ground. and from what i have been told, other than staying in the casino hotel rooms no one got anything from KT or the IPT for being allowed there. So like i said, there was no compensation to anybody at all....mike

 

[CaptiveBred]

The IPT should thank Mike Zuglan

Surely they did. What makes you think they did not?


I would have let them too. The IPT is a lion and the other tours are wounded gazelles. The lion could eat them at will so they better not give them a reason too

 

[Blackjack]

Surely they did. What makes you think they did not?


I would have let them too. The IPT is a lion and the other tours are wounded gazelles. The lion could eat them at will so they better not give them a reason too

Do you support the "wounded gazelles"? Probably not. This is one of the funniest posts I have ever read on this subject. Once the lion eats everything up, it will eventually die of starvation due to its own poorly planned gluttony. For years people have refused to support pool. That's just the facts. It irritates me when promoters of these tours are blamed for the lack of success in the game of pool. The lack of success is because people are unwilling to shell out any money. They'll gamble with it, they'll woof with it, but very rarely do they use it to support the tours in any way. The promoters work their butts off. Endless hours are spent preparing for events that you'll show up at and criticize for not being up to your standards. Of course KT has a lot of money, but he offers very little else. If history proves anything, this tour will fail because of people with opinions like yours. Kevin will learn that his tour won't make any more money than the tours that came before him for the same exact reason. He can invest as much as he likes, and he won't see a profit because its all "give me, give me, give me" and most people supporting this tour will never support it with money, they are counting upon Kevin to do that with his money. IMO, that is what makes this so interesting.

 

[Purdman]

Do you support the "wounded gazelles"? Probably not. This is one of the funniest posts I have ever read on this subject. Once the lion eats everything up, it will eventually die of starvation due to its own poorly planned gluttony. For years people have refused to support pool. That's just the facts. It irritates me when promoters of these tours are blamed for the lack of success in the game of pool. The lack of success is because people are unwilling to shell out any money. They'll gamble with it, they'll woof with it, but very rarely do they use it to support the tours in any way. The promoters work their butts off. Endless hours are spent preparing for events that you'll show up at and criticize for not being up to your standards. Of course KT has a lot of money, but he offers very little else. If history proves anything, this tour will fail because of people with opinions like yours. Kevin will learn that his tour won't make any more money than the tours that came before him for the same exact reason. He can invest as much as he likes, and he won't see a profit because its all "give me, give me, give me" and most people supporting this tour will never support it with money, they are counting upon Kevin to do that with his money. IMO, that is what makes this so interesting.

Blackjack, KT believes he has found an untapped audiance of illiterate consumers to hawk his snake oil to. It is the only way he could possibly be successful. If you saw the first KOH tournament on TV, you know you got 75 minutes of " Natural Cures " hype and 15 minutes of pool.
He will be gone soon. Either jailed or looking for more suckers! Wanna bet?
Purdman

 

[Blackjack]

Don
I'll stay away from that bet. When the spell wears off this one is going to get ugly. Real ugly.

 

[cueball1950]

Dave...I talked with Mike Zuglan today and he was at turning stone casino until 8pm last night. Mike had to be there last tuesday, 2 days before this last event started, until last night. I sincerely hope that no one on here thinks that Mike Made any money with this tournament.
I would also like to clear up my original post since i did have it a little off. KT/IPT called turning stone and asked if they could come do their interviews. The casino said no and only after mike asked them to reconsider a couple of times did the casino change its mind. and no one was ever compensated for them being allowed to come......mike

 

[CaptiveBred]

Do you support the "wounded gazelles"? Probably not.

No. Why should I? I've never been to one of the their events. I'm small time... If I did, I would support them however I could... You're not really expecting pool fans to support everything to do with pool, are you? I support lots of pool entities but I can't help em all out with what little I have...


Once the lion eats everything up, it will eventually die of starvation due to its own poorly planned gluttony.

I don't think so. The business plan is engineered towards other sources of income. The IPT, so it appears, does not want or need anything the competing tours have except the players. They do not plan to survive feeding off the gazelles. The IPT is hunting bears.

For years people have refused to support pool. That's just the facts. It irritates me when promoters of these tours are blamed for the lack of success in the game of pool. The lack of success is because people are unwilling to shell out any money. They'll gamble with it, they'll woof with it, but very rarely do they use it to support the tours in any way. The promoters work their butts off.

Who else is to blame? It is their cause that they decided to champion... The person behind the wheel is always to blame because they took on the role of responsability. How can you try to exclude the negative side, of being responsible for the success of the tour, just because they worked hard or were fighting a losing battle? The good also comes with the bad...

Do I think they are bad people because their business is not a big success? Of course not! They just choose to invest their resources poorly. Their reasons for doing so is their own. We all make bad financial decisions at one part in our lives. They appear to be "normal" people just like you and I...

The real culprit is the lack of consumables in pool. All the tours have to sell is prestige and entertainment that has a low value. Sure there is enough cash in the game to support a few families but not enough to call anything a real success.

Endless hours are spent preparing for events that you'll show up at and criticize for not being up to your standards. Of course KT has a lot of money, but he offers very little else. If history proves anything, this tour will fail because of people with opinions like yours.

All I wrote was the IPT had enormous power. Is that not close to true? I don't think what I wrote is going to shut down any tours. Do you? Maybe you are using the word "yours" poorly at the moment...


Kevin will learn that his tour won't make any more money than the tours that came before him for the same exact reason. He can invest as much as he likes, and he won't see a profit because its all "give me, give me, give me" and most people supporting this tour will never support it with money, they are counting upon Kevin to do that with his money. IMO, that is what makes this so interesting.

Again, the IPT is hunting bear. They are going after money that is not being circulated in the pool world. He has already stated, maybe not truthfully, that he is already making money. He very well may be. Getting his book name out there is worth something. maybe he sold a million extra natural cure products last year because of the IPT. That is how advertising works.

He may not need a dime from pool players to break even. We don't know... That "we" includes you. You seem to know about pool and its history but what do you know about pool as a business ran to make money that does not need pool fans to bring the cash in? Surely this is a plausable scenario. I see lots of other organizations making money the exact same way. Is KT way off the mark here using pool as a vehicle to create income? I don't think so... Of course he could make more with his money if he invested it elsewhere but he is a fan of the game. What is wrong with that? If I had the money, I'd support pool out of my pocket just for the fun of it.

Blackjack, I think you are too emotional about the whole situation. You do not have an objective view on what is going on. You seem to have a one sided opinion based on KT and his ethics and try your hardest to pass it off as fact.

I think it would be interesting if you stepped back, reevaluted the facts from an impartial view. Then wrote something up based on realism instead of idealism. I think you would see the IPT has a chance and "could" end up being good for pool. Good for pool is something you desire so, why not give KT and the IPT a fair shake at least once?


OP - sorry for the hijack. This happens alot in this forum MZ sounds like a good guy to go out of his way to get the iPT in the door. A good business move and a good charater move. Two thumbs up from me

 

[Blackjack]

Blackjack, I think you are too emotional about the whole situation.

Emotional? LOL. Ok. Now I'm emotional. I laughed out loud at what you wrote because it was a typical response from someone that has never supported the existing tours - and from someone that does not understand the dynamic of what is wrong with the industry from top to bottom. Believe it or not, some of us actually do hit the pavement and get out there to try and make a difference. We have 5% of the people doing 95% of the work. That's why pool has gotten nowhere. I think KT recognized that a lot of people in pool had their head up their ___ and he has taken full advantage of that. I compliment him on his ability to notice that and act upon it.

You do not have an objective view on what is going on.

Why should I? I'm a pool player and I have been through 5 tours in 20 years, I have seen it all go down in flames in the past more than once and it always starts just like this.

You seem to have a one sided opinion based on KT and his ethics and try your hardest to pass it off as fact.

I am presenting facts. Its not my fault that he has a reputation as a shameless liar and a conman. That's not my fault, its his fault. I didn't create his reputation, he did. It is not my fault that everything that he has touched has crashed and burned amidst the accusations of fraud and the questioning of his honesty. The only people that seem to be fooled by this guy are the IPT supporters and the players that are on his payroll. I don't expect them to bite the hand that feeds them. I understand that. I promise you that I have not said anything that I cannot back up with documented proof and articulable facts. If that seems one sided to you, it is. I apologize for spreading the truth about this man.

I think it would be interesting if you stepped back, reevaluted the facts from an impartial view.

You are asking me to ignore the fact that this guy has ripped off everyone he has dealt with in the past. Sorry, I won't be able to turn a blind eye to that. Many people are excited about the money he has. I could care less who he pays or how much he pays them. He has no integrity and a horrible reputation. I think we should be extremely careful who we entrust the future of our sport to. Given this guy's resume, I think it is wise to look at the drawbacks, and not just the blinding glitz, which will fade with time.

Then wrote something up based on realism instead of idealism.

Reality is what has already happened. What he is selling is fantasy. It will probably never happen, and if it does, it won't live up to the hype. Show me how this has helped pool so far. Show me something, anything that has advanced pool in any way. All it has done is cause people to wonder if pool and Kevin Trudeau are a good match. That's scary. It looks as if we don't care where the money comes from, as long as we get it. That reputation will stick to us long after KT has moved on to his next project.

I think you would see the IPT has a chance and "could" end up being good for pool. Good for pool is something you desire so, why not give KT and the IPT a fair shake at least once?

I don't think this will be good in the long term. Some players will see a lot of money. Good for them. I hope they do well. I won't give Trudeau a fair shake because he hasnt given pool a fair shake, nor do I ever expect him to.

OP - sorry for the hijack. This happens alot in this forum MZ sounds like a good guy to go out of his way to get the iPT in the door. A good business move and a good charater move. Two thumbs up from me

Mike works very hard on his tour. I hope he continues providing great tournaments for the great players. I hope the players don't write Mike off because he's offering them chump change in comparison to what Kevin can offer.

You seem to think I am opposed to progress, and that is not the case. I am opposed to having someone come in with a horrible reputation, tossing money around and making promises that he has no intention of keeping. I am opposed to trusting someone that has a reputation for not being trustworthy at all. He has insulted the hard work of many people and has even been so bold as to say he does not recognize them, and that in his opinion they don't exist. I'm sorry if you have a problem with me taking offense to that, but I couldn't help myself. Until this tour is more about pool and less about KT and his money, it will not have my support. Pool has become a sideshow to his self promotion. Those that care about POOL understand what I am trying to say; those that care only about MONEY are quick to take offense to what I am saying. It comes down to what is more important to you - pool or money. To me, its the game of pool.

............

 

[CaptiveBred]

I guess reasoning with you is not going to happen. Your mind is made up. Mines not. I'm waiting to see how it plays out. So far the IPT is holding true. Until false, I look forward to what it may bring...IPT is barely off the ground. I want pool to excell no matter who is at the helm. You, my friend, will never be happy with pool no matter where it goes if KT is behind the wheel... That is not "best interest in mind". I think it is more important to you to be right about KT than the progress of pool. Thats not a jab at you, thats really how you come off...

When encountering an unreasonable person, the best you can do is - agree to disagree"

 

[Colin Colenso]

The lack of success is because people are unwilling to shell out any money. They'll gamble with it, they'll woof with it, but very rarely do they use it to support the tours in any way.

This reminds me of the economic fallacy that consumption drives the economy rather than production, that the variation in consumer confidence is responsible for economic upturns and downturns.

Only a bad businessman blames his customers.

Do you really think KT's business model is similar to existing tours? His revenue is planned to come through entirely different avenues.

Most previous attempts failed because they were not doing, or not capable of doing what a large scale sporting enterprise must do. Entertain millions for starters!

 

[sjm]

This reminds me of the economic fallacy that consumption drives the economy rather than production, that the variation in consumer confidence is responsible for economic upturns and downturns.

Only a bad businessman blames his customers.

Do you really think KT's business model is similar to existing tours? His revenue is planned to come through entirely different avenues.

Most previous attempts failed because they were not doing, or not capable of doing what a large scale sporting enterprise must do. Entertain millions for starters!

Ah yes, and beware the "fallacy of composition."

 

[jjinfla]

For years people have refused to support pool. That's just the facts. It irritates me when promoters of these tours are blamed for the lack of success in the game of pool. The lack of success is because people are unwilling to shell out any money. .

And just what do you mean by that statement? How do you want people to support pool? Are you talking about players entering tournaments? Are you talking about fans turning out to watch a tournament. Or are you just talking about wanting someone to give a tournament a lot of money and get nothing in return.

From the very first time I attended a pro tournament, as a spectator, I thought to myself, "What fools". Here they have a product and they are giving it away for free." No admission charge. No products for sale. And playing for peanuts.

Prostitutes have more business sense than pool players.

And in the last seven years absolutely nothing has changed. And of course you all know what they say about a person doing the same thing, the same way, over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Well, nothing has changed until KT and the IPT came along.

I suggest that the rest of you who have not made it to the IPT just hang up your JS and forget about pool. You don't have what it takes. And you definately have the wrong attitude.


Jake

 

[onepocketchump]

First of all - do we even know if the IPT talked with Mike Z. or not? We don't know whether he got a formal thank you or not. More importantly however we don't know whether Mike will be thanked in a bigger way down the road. It is my impression that KT remembers those who support his endeavors.

John

 

[Blackjack]

And just what do you mean by that statement? How do you want people to support pool? Are you talking about players entering tournaments? Are you talking about fans turning out to watch a tournament. Or are you just talking about wanting someone to give a tournament a lot of money and get nothing in return.

What I meant by that is exactly what it says. There is too much of the "what can I get from this" attitude instead of "what can I do to make it better" attitude.

From the very first time I attended a pro tournament, as a spectator, I thought to myself, "What fools". Here they have a product and they are giving it away for free." No admission charge. No products for sale. And playing for peanuts.

That is because nobody has supported products, and many people WON'T pay for a seat, and if they do, they complain about the price. I fail to see what Kevin's products have to do with pool.

Prostitutes have more business sense than pool players.

Which is why they should proceed with caution. Agreed?

And in the last seven years absolutely nothing has changed. And of course you all know what they say about a person doing the same thing, the same way, over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Jake, about a year ago in this forum, I said that if pool was going to change for the better, then the change would be made outside this country, I stated that because of power, greed, money, egos, and lack of focus, the efforts within North America would be futile until the entire industry (including the players) had a common goal. It has always failed because we dont know where we're going, but we're getting there fast. The problems that exist go far beyond the money issues. There are ego issues that will implode this thing at some point. I hope that Kevin and hs associates have a good handle on those issues, and a plan to overcome them when they arise.

Well, nothing has changed until KT and the IPT came along.

Nothing has changed in the United States. Globally pool has thrived, except here. Why do you think that is? Kevin has been around 6 months, and to be honest, NOTHING has really changed. Some players got some good looking checks in Orlando, but besides that the billiards world is not seeing any drastic boost in sales, media attention, or any measured increase in participation because of anything Kevin has done. That's not a knock on him, that's the truth. Growth cannot be accurately meausred n the short amount of time he has been involved with this. That is reality. He knows that too.

I suggest that the rest of you who have not made it to the IPT just hang up your JS and forget about pool. You don't have what it takes. And you definately have the wrong attitude.

Actually I have never had a desire to play in the IPT, no matter how much money he offers for "just being there" - the best players should play at the highest level of the game. I have been blessed with other skills besides playing pool, I can survive just fine without playing on Kevin's tour. There are many players avoiding the IPT on principle, not because they are bitter about not being chosen.

Let's say the IPT works out. It thrives, and it sends pool into another boom like we saw in the mid-late 1980's. Look back at the mistakes that were made back then when we jumped on the wave caused by TCOM. You have already admitted that you were not involved with pool back then - I WAS. I know the mistakes that were made, the bridges that were burned, and the money that was made and the issues that were fought over. Collectively we ALL stepped on it. Pool has screwed up the best of situations. It all goes back to the issues that everybody is ignoring. When the TCOM was over and we sat there in 1991 with less than what we started with, we looked for ways to catch another wave instead of looking for ways to deal with the REAL ISSUES and the REAL PROBLEMS that plague the game of pool, the players and the entire industry. No matter what KT does with the IPT, you will still have 900 people going in 900 dfferent directions on 900 different ships - and when those ships sink, they will point their fingers in 899 different directions. SSDD.


Jake

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