The Key Problem with Bar Tables

dnschmidt said:
85% of what's wrong with bar tables is that they're in bars. They sigmatize the game as one played by drunken losers that are far more concerned with picking up chicks and getting drunk than they are about learning to play this fantastic game. Bar tables, not so much for their size but for their location, have killed this game and it never will be resurrected as it presents a demographic and image to mainstream sponsors, the only hope for making the game more popular, of low income, lowlifes wasting time.

I grew up in Pittsburgh. During my misspent youth it was illegal to sell alcohol in pool halls in the state of Pennsylvania. This was the best law ever. Why, because if you went into a pool hall you were there to play pool. You were not there to drink, eat, listen to loud music or pick up chicks since there were very few of them around in any of the pool halls of Pittsburgh. No buddy, you were there to play pool.

I had a opponent name Chuck Richardson, nickname: Chuck the Cheese. I was a Research Scientist at Westinghouse R&D Center and he was a Product Manager for PPG. We were both strong 5's and very evenly matched. He and I went at it tooth and nail every night for at least five years. Spectators included Ranger Rick and Tom the Roofer. Catcalls were commonly heard if somebody dogged it. Game was 9-ball race to 5 and we played 3 or 5 sets before we went back home. The stakes were always the same. Loser pays the time. Earl and Efren never played each other as hard as we did.

Pool to us was competition, companionship, trash talking and a game that fascinated both of us. I can't see how this could have worked in a bar. Without pool halls there is no pool. Sad fact but that's the way it is. I haven't seen "The Cheese" in thirty years and I don't even know if he's dead or alive, but, if he's alive I bet he still has his Gold Crown III in his house and I had a Diamond in mine, but, it's not the same as playing Chuck at either Jimmy Mario's Golden Cue or Chalky's where the point was to beat him like a rented mule.
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Pool has no real problems to deal with. But needs only to deal with itself first.
Problems usually mean that they can't be fixed based on the condition of other entities. In other words, blame it on something else...
So a man walks into a bar. OUCH!
So another man walks into a bar and see's a bar table. And what?
It's like saying, the problem with cars is that they are all on the damn road!? This doesn't stop motor sport from being successful, does it? All those loud mouth, ill tempered road hogs who lust for blood at the sight of any driver infringing on their manhood - don't stop sponsors from investing $$$$$$$$$$$$ in sponsorship money do they?
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Pool has a very juvenile outlook and has not moved with the times. It's a 16th Century game trying to exist in a 21st century world. I really do believe this is the case. And i'm just as guilty as anyone for keeping it there.
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There are many looking for answers to a problem when a problem doesn't exist.
Change your own perceptions, change your own outlook, change your own goals. From this we will all realise that POOL LIFE really isn't that bad and has a lot going for her...
:thumbup:
 
A couple of points have been made here which I would like to respond to. Part of my complaint about bar tables being in bars is that you have to be 21 to get into a bar. That eliminates young people, the lifeblood of any sport, from playing pool. To me 7ft tables might be the best introduction of young people to the game. They can't play on them if they are in bars.

Secondly, there was nothing whatsoever seedy about Jim Mario's golden cue or Chalky's. Both well lit very nice places to play. So to the poster complaining about seedy pool halls this was not my experience while growing up.

My first post concerned my unhappiness with PRO level players playing on 7ft tables which is completely different from this post which has to do with the death of pool being caused by the death of quality pool halls. The two subjects are not related.
 
dnschmidt said:
A couple of points have been made here which I would like to respond to. Part of my complaint about bar tables being in bars is that you have to be 21 to get into a bar. That eliminates young people, the lifeblood of any sport, from playing pool. To me 7ft tables might be the best introduction of young people to the game. They can't play on them if they are in bars.

Secondly, there was nothing whatsoever seedy about Jim Mario's golden cue or Chalky's. Both well lit very nice places to play. So to the poster complaining about seedy pool halls this was not my experience while growing up.

My first post concerned my unhappiness with PRO level players playing on 7ft tables which is completely different from this post which has to do with the death of pool being caused by the death of quality pool halls. The two subjects are not related.
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So just because kids can't get into bars means there shouldn't be pool tables in bars?!? What an ignorant comment. Just because pool tables are in bars does not mean that pool halls can't exist as well. If I had it my way, every building the country would have a pool table in it.
 
Just because you play on a 9 ft table does not mean your better at pool in general. Just means you play on a bigger table. There are lots of low level players on bar boxes. Are you saying everyone that plays on 9ft tables are magically better. I never play on big tables but I am sure there are lots of big table players I can beat. Not saying I am great as I am not. Just saying I see people who suck on bar boxes and if the played exclusively on 9ft tables they would still suck. So play where you want and on what you want. Just don't think it makes you a better pool player.
 
jburkm002 said:
Just because you play on a 9 ft table does not mean your better at pool in general. Just means you play on a bigger table. There are lots of low level players on bar boxes. Are you saying everyone that plays on 9ft tables are magically better. I never play on big tables but I am sure there are lots of big table players I can beat. Not saying I am great as I am not. Just saying I see people who suck on bar boxes and if the played exclusively on 9ft tables they would still suck. So play where you want and on what you want. Just don't think it makes you a better pool player.
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Maybe so but a player that is used to a 9 footer never has a long shot on a 7 footer. As a matter of fact they all look short on the 7 when you are used to a 9 but you make some valid points.
 
jburkm002 said:
Just because you play on a 9 ft table does not mean your better at pool in general. Just means you play on a bigger table. There are lots of low level players on bar boxes. Are you saying everyone that plays on 9ft tables are magically better. I never play on big tables but I am sure there are lots of big table players I can beat. Not saying I am great as I am not. Just saying I see people who suck on bar boxes and if the played exclusively on 9ft tables they would still suck. So play where you want and on what you want. Just don't think it makes you a better pool player.
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i am captain of an apa double jeapordy team. i was looking for another player. when i found out that a former apa member " a 5 " who had been playing strictly on 9's for the last 2 years was looking for a team to get on i jumped at the chance to grab him.

big mistake....he has a record of 2-10 in 8 ball and 3-9 in 9 ball this session. after getting demolished by other 5's his 1st 4 games i started matching him up against 4's and 3's ...he is still losing bad.

i never would have thought that a guy who quit apa to strictly play " serious " pool on big boy tables would come back to apa and be getting his ass kicked by 3's and 4's . :(

he can go back to 9' tables next session for all i care cause he will not be playing for me. oh yea ...he never takes turns keeping score like every one else. guess " serious " players cant be bothered with that. :rolleyes:
 
lorider said:
i am captain of an apa double jeapordy team. i was looking for another player. when i found out that a former apa member " a 5 " who had been playing strictly on 9's for the last 2 years was looking for a team to get on i jumped at the chance to grab him.

big mistake....he has a record of 2-10 in 8 ball and 3-9 in 9 ball this session. after getting demolished by other 5's his 1st 4 games i started matching him up against 4's and 3's ...he is still losing bad.

i never would have thought that a guy who quit apa to strictly play " serious " pool on big boy tables would come back to apa and be getting his ass kicked by 3's and 4's . :(

he can go back to 9' tables next session for all i care cause he will not be playing for me. oh yea ...he never takes turns keeping score like every one else. guess " serious " players cant be bothered with that. :rolleyes:
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There's obviously more to his story then, you CANNOT be a worse player by playing on 9'ers for 2 years - something isn't right.
 
jburkm002 said:
Just because you play on a 9 ft table does not mean your better at pool in general. Just means you play on a bigger table. There are lots of low level players on bar boxes. Are you saying everyone that plays on 9ft tables are magically better. I never play on big tables but I am sure there are lots of big table players I can beat. Not saying I am great as I am not. Just saying I see people who suck on bar boxes and if the played exclusively on 9ft tables they would still suck. So play where you want and on what you want. Just don't think it makes you a better pool player.
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I'm close enough to test this theory out. :)

Btw, I'm not in ft lauderdale
 
jasonlaus said:
There's obviously more to his story then, you CANNOT be a worse player by playing on 9'ers for 2 years - something isn't right.
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gotta admit i am pretty suprised by his record but stats don't lie.

wish it was not true because he is killing my team .
 
Bar boxes

dnschmidt said:
85% of what's wrong with bar tables is that they're in bars. They sigmatize the game as one played by drunken losers that are far more concerned with picking up chicks and getting drunk than they are about learning to play this fantastic game. Bar tables, not so much for their size but for their location, have killed this game and it never will be resurrected as it presents a demographic and image to mainstream sponsors, the only hope for making the game more popular, of low income, lowlifes wasting time.

I grew up in Pittsburgh. During my misspent youth it was illegal to sell alcohol in pool halls in the state of Pennsylvania. This was the best law ever. Why, because if you went into a pool hall you were there to play pool. You were not there to drink, eat, listen to loud music or pick up chicks since there were very few of them around in any of the pool halls of Pittsburgh. No buddy, you were there to play pool.

I had a opponent name Chuck Richardson, nickname: Chuck the Cheese. I was a Research Scientist at Westinghouse R&D Center and he was a Product Manager for PPG. We were both strong 5's and very evenly matched. He and I went at it tooth and nail every night for at least five years. Spectators included Ranger Rick and Tom the Roofer. Catcalls were commonly heard if somebody dogged it. Game was 9-ball race to 5 and we played 3 or 5 sets before we went back home. The stakes were always the same. Loser pays the time. Earl and Efren never played each other as hard as we did.

Pool to us was competition, companionship, trash talking and a game that fascinated both of us. I can't see how this could have worked in a bar. Without pool halls there is no pool. Sad fact but that's the way it is. I haven't seen "The Cheese" in thirty years and I don't even know if he's dead or alive, but, if he's alive I bet he still has his Gold Crown III in his house and I had a Diamond in mine, but, it's not the same as playing Chuck at either Jimmy Mario's Golden Cue or Chalky's where the point was to beat him like a rented mule.
Click to expand...

If you were to look up why they made bar tables and the game of 8 ball you most likely would of never made this thread..

Its all about how much space you have to put a table, a way for people to socialize and a way to make a game last longer...........................
 
lorider said:
gotta admit i am pretty suprised by his record but stats don't lie.

wish it was not true because he is killing my team .
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Just wondering. How many times does he walk back from the table saying how lucky his opponent was to make that shot or to win the game or match? Lots of "big" table players seem to have that attitude when beaten on a small table by an inferior (to them) player. Lots of guys I know seem to think bar box eight ball is simple. They're going to kill me at it. Then the slow cloth or ball congestion or the get perfect position steps in. Wow are there ever a lot of excuses out there! Yes, I've used a few :sorry: .

Lyn
 
Neil said:
I imagine that if this forum was around in the 50's, you would here the same nonsense over people preferring those toy 9' tables instead of the real 10' tables.

Times change, things change. We are in the middle of a change now. Deal with it.
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I came across a story not long ago from the late 1800s ...
A well educated and respected billiard writer from the Philly area was bashing the game of 3cushion , saying that no " real " billiard player would be caught dead playing that joke of a game.

Ironic that a few short years later, 3 cushion would become the most played game in the country.

Things do change. Games change. Tables change. Society changes .

Shit happens . oh well.
 
Oh and by the way...pool changing is what brought us the pinball machine .
Go figure.
 
cardiac kid said:
Just wondering. How many times does he walk back from the table saying how lucky his opponent was to make that shot or to win the game or match? Lots of "big" table players seem to have that attitude when beaten on a small table by an inferior (to them) player. Lots of guys I know seem to think bar box eight ball is simple. They're going to kill me at it. Then the slow cloth or ball congestion or the get perfect position steps in. Wow are there ever a lot of excuses out there! Yes, I've used a few :sorry: .

Lyn
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just about every match ...lol.

after reading your post i decided to go back and look up his lifetime stats before commenting further.

he started in our area as a 5 back in 2011 which indicates he played apa some where else before moving here. he quit in 2013 before joining my team this last session. as i stated he had been playing striictly on 9 ' tables playing in in house leagues and local tournaments until joining my team this session.

i remembered facing him several times between 2011 and 2013 and thought he was a pretty tough 5 and gladly picked him up when i heard he had an interest in rejoining apa. i have no idea haw he fared during his time on 9' tables the last 2 years but thought he would at least have improved since his last apa outing.

his lifetime stats corroborate my opinion of how he played between 2011 and 2013. his lifetime win % in 8 ball is 52 % ...which includes his 18% win record this session. he did have as high as 69% win record some sessions during those 2 years.

9 ball is almost as good with a 50 % lifetime win record ...including his 30% record so far this session . he had as high as 67% win record one session back then.

it just puzzles the hell out of me why he is not nowhere as good as he was back then. does playing on 9's really screw some one up when they play on 7's this bad ? . btw we rotate between 9's and 7's in our league due to not having enough 7' tables for our 16 team double jeapordy division. 3 of our 12 matches so far have been on 9' tables.
 
So wrong !!!!!! The mighty earl the pearl Strickland found his love playing pool In a bar, idk what bars you go to but I play some great players and nice people at bars.
 
dnschmidt said:
A couple of points have been made here which I would like to respond to. Part of my complaint about bar tables being in bars is that you have to be 21 to get into a bar. That eliminates young people, the lifeblood of any sport, from playing pool. To me 7ft tables might be the best introduction of young people to the game. They can't play on them if they are in bars.

Secondly, there was nothing whatsoever seedy about Jim Mario's golden cue or Chalky's. Both well lit very nice places to play. So to the poster complaining about seedy pool halls this was not my experience while growing up.

My first post concerned my unhappiness with PRO level players playing on 7ft tables which is completely different from this post which has to do with the death of pool being caused by the death of quality pool halls. The two subjects are not related.
Click to expand...

Here you can enter a bar when in high school, even before actually. They may not serve you booze but that's it. Many people are introduced to the game while fairly young. This age limit of yours feels as evil and wicked as Hitler's and Stalin's souls combined. Living in a country where my first step in a bar would've been a few months ago sounds like something out of a sci-fi horror movie.
 
ronlovespool said:
So wrong !!!!!! The mighty earl the pearl Strickland found his love playing pool In a bar, idk what bars you go to but I play some great players and nice people at bars.
Click to expand...

I believe Hopkins told me he started playing on a small table.
 
1. They're in bars
2. They need to be a foot wider
3. They need to be 2' longer.
 
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