The Lowest of the LD Shafts

[PGHteacher]

Not sure what or to whom you're asking.

I was asking you but I am somehow missing a part of the puzzle; there is something I do not fully grasp. I know a pivot point, BHE and squirt/deflection. I guess I find it hard to grasp the concept of a human being able to replicate so many factors with such accuracy; but then again I am not a great pool player, I have played enough of them to know that for sure.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Kerry, I've been in St. Pete for a year and a half. And other than for business or to visit my girls in college, I don't ever plan on moving back!!!

Interestingly, I took my OB Classic down a smidge and retapered. The feel is fantastic and the squirt was reduced noticeably. But of course, I don't have a number for what it was prior. I suppose I'll have to check the new pivot point and report.

Fred,

My OB Classic was almost 12.9mm. I also took it down a bit, to about 12.7, and found a big improvement. I wonder how 12.5 would be.

KMRUNOUT

 

[shanesinnott]

Shane, why did your tests (without an object ball) show different results than testing with an object ball would?

pj
chgo

Not sure. I know when Steve (Titus) and I ran the original tests there were some differences between our PP numbers and the numbers that several people had posted on this board. I will ask him next time I speak with him if he recalls the reason for the disparity. I know he had a theory back then but it was so long ago since we did the testing (2004 iirc) that I can't recall exactly what conclusion he had come to regarding the differences.

 

[Cornerman]

Shane, why did your tests (without an object ball) show different results than testing with an object ball would?

pj
chgo

Because of object ball throw. The Platinum tests only shows the absolute squirt and calculated pivot point for the cueball path.

With the aim and pivot method, the cueball has to hit at a slightly different spot. You need less squirt correction for aim and pivot with an object ball.

This is why I call it "effective pivot point."

Freddie

 

[scottjen26]

Interesting...

I don't know about the Jacoby or even Mezz shafts, but the Z2 would definitely rank above the 314-2. I switched from the Z2 to the 314-2 6 months ago, and while I like the thicker shaft and hit a little better I'm still having to stay really focused when adjusting for certain english shots, BHE works but the shaft is very sensitive to speed. With the Z2 I could just adjust more intuitively for all shots/speeds, but maybe that was just because I worked with it enough when I initially changed from a standard Schon shaft.

I really want to try the Mezz shaft, originally thinking the HP2 but hearing a lot of good things about the WD700. A little smaller than my 314-2 (12.5), joint fits my Schon I think, and sounds like it plays well. Just hard to plunk down another $250 or so for a "trial" shaft. One of these days I'll probably take the plunge though...

Scott

 

[LAMas]

I don't have the time to edit this chart, but you get the drift of this dated info.

Shaft Tested Tip, Curvature Deflection, over 50", (mm) Deflection, over 50"
(inches) Compared,to Average Pivot Point, (inches) Deflection, Rating:

Predator Z-2 dime 29.6 1.17 -28.6% 14.1 low
Predator Z dime 32.3 1.27 -22.2% 12.8 low
Predator 314-2 dime 33.0 1.30 -20.4% 12.5 low
OB-1 Shaft dime 33.4 1.32 -19.3% 12.3 low
Predator BK2 dime 34.6 1.36 -16.5% 11.9 low
Predator 314 dime 34.8 1.37 -16.1% 11.8 low
McDermott i-3 dime 36.8 1.45 -11.2% 11.1 low
Predator BK dime 37.1 1.46 -10.6% 11.0 low
Universal SmartShaft (Low Squirt) dime 37.9 1.49 -8.6% 10.7 low
McDermott i-2 dime 38.6 1.52 -6.9% 10.5 med low
Universal SmartShaft (Regular Squirt) dime 39.4 1.55 -5.0% 10.3 med low
Axiom dime 39.6 1.56 -4.4% 10.3 med low
McDermott i-1 dime 39.6 1.56 -4.4% 10.3 med low
Action dime 40.1 1.58 -3.2% 10.1 med low
Meucci Red Dot dime 40.1 1.58 -3.2% 10.1 med low
5280 dime 40.6 1.60 -2.0% 9.9 med low
Sierra dime 40.9 1.61 -1.4% 9.9 med low
Cuetec Thunderbolt dime 41.7 1.64 0.5% 9.7 medium
Viking nickel 41.7 1.64 0.5% 9.7 medium
Mezz Power Break 2 quarter 41.7 1.64 0.5% 9.7 medium
Sterling nickel 41.9 1.65 1.1% 9.6 medium
Bunjee J/B quarter 42.3 1.67 2.0% 9.5 medium
Fury JB dime 42.7 1.68 2.9% 9.4 medium
Falcon dime 42.9 1.69 3.5% 9.4 medium
McDermott dime 42.9 1.69 3.5% 9.4 medium
Mezz dime 42.9 1.69 3.5% 9.4 medium
Tiger X-shaft nickel 42.9 1.69 3.5% 9.4 medium
Players dime 43.4 1.71 4.8% 9.2 medium
Sledgehammer J/B dime 43.4 1.71 4.8% 9.2 medium
Cuetec Vortex dime 43.9 1.73 6.0% 9.1 medium
Mali dime 43.9 1.73 6.0% 9.1 medium
Pechauer nickel 43.9 1.73 6.0% 9.1 medium
Scorpion J/B quarter 43.9 1.73 6.0% 9.1 medium
Blaze dime 43.9 1.73 6.0% 9.1 medium
Joss nickel 44.2 1.74 6.6% 9.1 med high
Cuetec SST nickel 44.2 1.74 6.6% 9.0 med high
X Breaker 44.3 1.74 6.8% 9.0 med high
Meucci Black Dot dime 44.4 1.75 7.2% 9.0 med high
Fury nickel 44.7 1.76 7.8% 9.0 med high
Lucasi dime 44.7 1.76 7.8% 8.9 med high
Schon nickel 44.7 1.76 7.8% 8.9 med high
Axiom J/B dime 46.0 1.81 10.9% 8.7 med high
Bunjee Blaster nickel 46.0 1.81 10.9% 8.7 med high
Lightning Bolt 46.2 1.82 11.4% 8.6 med high
Mezz Break quarter 47.8 1.88 15.2% 8.3 high
Scorpion Break dime 51.3 2.02 23.7% 7.6 high

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I haven't been able to stop thinking about the Jacoby Edge...I am dying to try one out!!

KMRUNOUT

 

[RSCA HOOLIGAN]

where would the BARIONI A+++ shaft be in this list .
According to Barioni on top .
Is there anybody that can or have compared his shaft with the Z2 ?

 

[McChen]

i have a hybrid edge at 12.75mm and the deflection reduction is just OK. it's like halfway between a predator and a regular shaft.

i own and have tested over 40 high tech LD shafts, it's been a weird thing of mine to do. the lowest i've seen right now are the z2 and ob-2. close behind that is the 314-2 and ob-1. and right behind that are the wd700 and hp2. those three classes i would regard as ultra low. beyond that it drops off considerably and you have a bunch of shafts that have lower deflection than a standard shaft, but noticeably more than those previously listed. i'd put the jacoby in that category.

there's also a bunch of high tech shafts that really do nothing to reduce deflection, though sometimes they are marketed as LD shafts. they may be radially consistent, etc. but deflection reduction is not really there. though they still may be great shafts in other respects.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

i have a hybrid edge at 12.75mm and the deflection reduction is just OK. it's like halfway between a predator and a regular shaft.

i own and have tested over 40 high tech LD shafts, it's been a weird thing of mine to do. the lowest i've seen right now are the z2 and ob-2. close behind that is the 314-2 and ob-1. and right behind that are the wd700 and hp2. those three classes i would regard as ultra low. beyond that it drops off considerably and you have a bunch of shafts that have lower deflection than a standard shaft, but noticeably more than those previously listed. i'd put the jacoby in that category.

there's also a bunch of high tech shafts that really do nothing to reduce deflection, though sometimes they are marketed as LD shafts. they may be radially consistent, etc. but deflection reduction is not really there. though they still may be great shafts in other respects.

This is very similar to my experience. Z2 is definitely the lowest I've tried. Thanks for the info...these claims get thrown around and until you try them out, its hard to know for sure.

KMRUNOUT

 

[McChen]

yeah, there's a lot of misinformation out there and the marketing folks have been throwing around the term pretty loosely. high deflection reduction is pretty hard to do and there's only a few vendors that do it really well.

i've been interested in doing some quantitative testing like platinum billiards did and publishing the results for people to use. it would be nice to supplement the work platinum did with some updated data for newer shafts on the market. need to find a testing robot to use...

 

[ignomirello]

wow you guys Thanks!

I don't have the time to edit this chart, but you get the drift of this dated info.

Shaft Tested Tip, Curvature Deflection, over 50", (mm) Deflection, over 50"
(inches) Compared,to Average Pivot Point, (inches) Deflection, Rating:

Predator Z-2 dime 29.6 1.17 -28.6% 14.1 low
Predator Z dime 32.3 1.27 -22.2% 12.8 low
Predator 314-2 dime 33.0 1.30 -20.4% 12.5 low
OB-1 Shaft dime 33.4 1.32 -19.3% 12.3 low
Predator BK2 dime 34.6 1.36 -16.5% 11.9 low
Predator 314 dime 34.8 1.37 -16.1% 11.8 low
McDermott i-3 dime 36.8 1.45 -11.2% 11.1 low
Predator BK dime 37.1 1.46 -10.6% 11.0 low
Universal SmartShaft (Low Squirt) dime 37.9 1.49 -8.6% 10.7 low
McDermott i-2 dime 38.6 1.52 -6.9% 10.5 med low
Universal SmartShaft (Regular Squirt) dime 39.4 1.55 -5.0% 10.3 med low
Axiom dime 39.6 1.56 -4.4% 10.3 med low
McDermott i-1 dime 39.6 1.56 -4.4% 10.3 med low
Action dime 40.1 1.58 -3.2% 10.1 med low
Meucci Red Dot dime 40.1 1.58 -3.2% 10.1 med low
5280 dime 40.6 1.60 -2.0% 9.9 med low
Sierra dime 40.9 1.61 -1.4% 9.9 med low
Cuetec Thunderbolt dime 41.7 1.64 0.5% 9.7 medium
Viking nickel 41.7 1.64 0.5% 9.7 medium
Mezz Power Break 2 quarter 41.7 1.64 0.5% 9.7 medium
Sterling nickel 41.9 1.65 1.1% 9.6 medium
Bunjee J/B quarter 42.3 1.67 2.0% 9.5 medium
Fury JB dime 42.7 1.68 2.9% 9.4 medium
Falcon dime 42.9 1.69 3.5% 9.4 medium
McDermott dime 42.9 1.69 3.5% 9.4 medium
Mezz dime 42.9 1.69 3.5% 9.4 medium
Tiger X-shaft nickel 42.9 1.69 3.5% 9.4 medium
Players dime 43.4 1.71 4.8% 9.2 medium
Sledgehammer J/B dime 43.4 1.71 4.8% 9.2 medium
Cuetec Vortex dime 43.9 1.73 6.0% 9.1 medium
Mali dime 43.9 1.73 6.0% 9.1 medium
Pechauer nickel 43.9 1.73 6.0% 9.1 medium
Scorpion J/B quarter 43.9 1.73 6.0% 9.1 medium
Blaze dime 43.9 1.73 6.0% 9.1 medium
Joss nickel 44.2 1.74 6.6% 9.1 med high
Cuetec SST nickel 44.2 1.74 6.6% 9.0 med high
X Breaker 44.3 1.74 6.8% 9.0 med high
Meucci Black Dot dime 44.4 1.75 7.2% 9.0 med high
Fury nickel 44.7 1.76 7.8% 9.0 med high
Lucasi dime 44.7 1.76 7.8% 8.9 med high
Schon nickel 44.7 1.76 7.8% 8.9 med high
Axiom J/B dime 46.0 1.81 10.9% 8.7 med high
Bunjee Blaster nickel 46.0 1.81 10.9% 8.7 med high
Lightning Bolt 46.2 1.82 11.4% 8.6 med high
Mezz Break quarter 47.8 1.88 15.2% 8.3 high
Scorpion Break dime 51.3 2.02 23.7% 7.6 high

Wow this is great info guys Thanks!

I was thinking wouldn't different size shafts (lenth & thinkness) be a factor? I was looking for info on maybe 10.5 to 11.5 & 28 to 31 in lenth

Wouldn't a thicker shaft give you a different deflection? The taper also a factor?

I like a 11mm shaft any lenth Can I get a Z-2 to fit my Josswest & what is the pricing?

Can you get it with the same ringwork?