The major issue with pool!

TimKrazyMon

TimKrazyMon

Kid Delicious' Evil Twin
Silver Member
Looking at pool in the US (I'm sure some of this will apply to the rest of the world) I see a lot of things that need to be addressed. We have no recognized national pro tour, a severe lack in the number of major tournaments, & not enough money or sponsorship necessary to travel to big events when they do come up.

I look at these problems & see one underlying cause to all of them: A lack of fan support. I see streams getting just a few hundred viewers & low spectator turnout to major events. It stands to reason that if we can increase the level of fans, sponsorship dollars can be attracted which can solve the rest of the issues currently facing pool/billiards.

The million dollar (literally) is how do we get more people to watch. Is there a way pool can be more TV friendly without diluting the game? How can we introduce pool to more people & show the beauty of this game? I ask these questions because once we can answer these, everything else becomes much easier to fix.
 
Honestly if billiards in general will every amount to anything in the U.S., it will have to be introduced into the public school system. Then and only then will we see a change in the general attitude towards billiards in general for the simple fact that peoples kids will be playing and learning something on the back side. This would propel forward sponsors such as diamond, valley, Brunswick, etc. to fill the public school system demands for equipment, and would help the player see more sponsorship money floating around. If there was a way to offer billiards as an elective say starting in junior high, we might be on the right track. Billiards needs to follow in the footsteps of the other loved sports of America, and it needs the school system to do that.
 
The biggest problem with pool is there's not enough good looking women that play it. 5 months ago my GF "moved on" after 3+ years because I wouldn't have a child with her and now I'm a freakin celibate. :angry:


I don't think that's a selfish perspective, do you? ;)
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
The biggest problem with pool is there's not enough good looking women that play it. 5 months ago my GF "moved on" after 3+ years because I wouldn't have a child with her and now I'm a freakin celibate. :angry:


I don't think that's a selfish perspective, do you? ;)
Click to expand...

Ha ha, funny!

Seriously, getting in with the kids in school is a great idea, but that will take time before any gains are realized. Are there any "short-term" solutions to bridge this gap?
 
TimKrazyMon said:
Ha ha, funny!

Seriously, getting in with the kids in school is a great idea, but that will take time before any gains are realized. Are there any "short-term" solutions to bridge this gap?
Click to expand...

I applaud your efforts to troubleshoot this under appreciated sport we love. And as you know, perhaps the most common line in AZ is "this is what's wrong with pool". Sure, getting people involved earlier in life is a great idea. Will that eventually make pool so popular it knocks the NFL off air? OK, that's silly, but...

There's so many things that would need to fall into place for the US to drastically increase pool's reach and frequency. We need $, a more universal ruling body, a strong players association, better economy, less deceit, olympics?, etc, etc. It's mind boggling how far away we are and how many f-ups painted us into this corner.
 
Aside from the school thing, maybe some other youth organizations, like the YMCA or something?
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
I applaud your efforts to troubleshoot this under appreciated sport we love. And as you know, perhaps the most common line in AZ is "this is what's wrong with pool". Sure, getting people involved earlier in life is a great idea. Will that eventually make pool so popular it knocks the NFL off air? OK, that's silly, but...

There's so many things that would need to fall into place for the US to drastically increase pool's reach and frequency. We need $, a more universal ruling body, a strong players association, better economy, less deceit, olympics?, etc, etc. It's mind boggling how far away we are and how many f-ups painted us into this corner.
Click to expand...

That's the thing Matt, fans would bring the $$. More fans = more (+ outside) sponsorship = more events = more money.
 
This type of discussion has been around for long as I can remember. "How to promote pool." Sadly, I don't think it can be without TV exposure... and it has been proven time and time again that pool can not deliver a large TV audience. Even most pool players don't watch it on TV. Those same players like playing, but just not watching. It's simply not a big time promotable sport, IMO. I hope someday I'm proven wrong... but I don't see that happening. All we, the players, can do is enjoy pool and not expect it to ever be anything special in the eyes of non players.
 
TimKrazyMon said:
That's the thing Matt, fans would bring the $$. More fans = more (+ outside) sponsorship = more events = more money.
Click to expand...

I agree. But getting the fans is the end result of making serious positive strides. I don't see how they come before the horse.
 
There have always been a small group of people who cant get enough of the game. Its a supply and demand issue. If it were valuable to the whole community, it would already be on TV and everyone would know who SVB is. That is why gambling and pool go hand in hand. I would never want to see anyones tax dollars going towards pool-putting it in public schools. I'm sure pool is at the bottom of the list behind every other special interest group. Pool will never die and will alway be exactly where it is supposed to be. You cant force these things. A few hundred streamers is a great thing. Pool is going to be ok.
 
But why then is pool so popular in other (select) countries? Do they televise matches, and if so, anything to be learned on how they do it? Do a higher % of the population in those countries play than in the US?

I guess what I'm asking, is there a working model elsewhere that could assist the US?
 
It needs to be more entertaining when on tv. The competition needs to involve mixed doubles, speed pool, trick shots, no safety high speed nine ball, tag team high speed eight ball, draw competition, jump shot competition decathlon style. Make the viewer care about the competitors and make the competitors talk.

Recognize that America has no attention span and turn pool into a circus if you Want to make money.

As long as we are brainstorming that's my 2 cents.
 
Luxury said:
It needs to be more entertaining when on tv. The competition needs to involve mixed doubles, speed pool, trick shots, no safety high speed nine ball, tag team high speed eight ball, draw competition, jump shot competition decathlon style. Make the viewer care about the competitors and make the competitors talk.

Recognize that America has no attention span and turn pool into a circus if you Want to make money.

As long as we are brainstorming that's my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

You are in my opinion correct in your assumptions. Sadly if we do these things then it's not pool but it is a circus.
 
My only answer to this is a history lesson :grin:

And my only point of reference is Snooker :groan:

In Short
Back in the 70's It started as a one frame once a week program (Pot Black) that morphed into whole tournaments being covered for weeks at a time with hundreds of hours of programming. Along the way it made millionaires of the best players and provided a living for many many more.

At it's peak during the 80's According to the demographics the daytime audience was largely made up of housewives. The reason this phenomena happened was the game was presented in a way that allowed the characters to develop and become household names. Once the characters have established themselves in the hearts and minds of the fans it allows for the drama of the matches to unfold.
(I too find it hard to root for one hockey team or the other if the Canucks aren't playing :D)

Okay, I am not saying pool needs to follow the same path, it would probably fail I don't know. What I am saying is it needs to have some of the same ingredients and in today's market that may be some sort of reality angle like following a few players around the tourny circuit, maybe cover some of the money matches (legal?).
It needs someone to take a risk to run many hours of programming and it needs something that will garner sponsor interest.
You would think that judging by most of the garbage that's on during the day now it shouldn't be too hard to come up with something mildly appealing.
Or as some one said earlier maybe this game is just not suited for tv, who knows?
 
Last edited:
AJC said:
Honestly if billiards in general will every amount to anything in the U.S., it will have to be introduced into the public school system. Then and only then will we see a change in the general attitude towards billiards in general for the simple fact that peoples kids will be playing and learning something on the back side. This would propel forward sponsors such as diamond, valley, Brunswick, etc. to fill the public school system demands for equipment, and would help the player see more sponsorship money floating around. If there was a way to offer billiards as an elective say starting in junior high, we might be on the right track. Billiards needs to follow in the footsteps of the other loved sports of America, and it needs the school system to do that.
Click to expand...

Tap Tap Tap. I've been saying this to the BCA for about 20 years now. They got all caught up in the frenzy to get pool into the Olympics and where has that gotten us. NO WHERE!
 
Issue?

Some thoughts of the "Issue" ..
Our wonderful sport of Pocket Billiards has sort of missed the boat on presenting itself to the public and to any major sponsorship. Sports in general is entertainment and we are not all that entertaining to anyone other than our immediate circle of enthusiasts.
The greatest entertainer Pocket Billiards ever had was Minnesota Fats. In the 1960's, he had a TV show that was broadcast on a major network every Saturday afternoon called, Minnesota Fats' Celebrity Billiards. There were movie and TV stars that would be on the show to play some pool with the Fat Man. The show was almost all off the cuff dialog and Fats was very funny and the stars seemed to enjoy themselves.
I know, as a kid, I watched it every chance I had. So, what happened to that type of entertainment?
Also, does our Sport's Double Elimination Tournament Format really make sense compared to the way other Sports compete? In Tennis, each player must defeat the other player the best of seven sets to win. In Golf, all of the players compete the first two days with score dictating who advances. Even then, the remaining field competes together with total score determining the winner. In Bowling, the entire field competes each day and the final four are determined by their scores or performance.
Is the Double Elimination format really suitable for Today's competition?
We need a "Hero". Someone the people recognize and want to follow.
The old Tournaments, up until the 60's, were Round Robin and if you were the best player in that Tournament, your record proved it. Plus, the World Champion could be challenged by a qualifyed individual to defend his or her Title. Willie Mosconi and Ralph Greenleaf were the best and made their reputations through these challenge matches. That is how they became stars.
Still, our presentation on the "hows" and "whats" of our Sport needs the most attention.
In my humble opinion, a weekly TV show similar to what Fats' had in the 60's, could set-up coprorate sponsorship and new found interest for the public. Plus, its' success could lay the groundwork for other endevours for us.
So, as an example, how would this sound, “Coca Cola presents, Mike Sigel’s Hall of Fame Challenge”?
Can you imagine, the Show starts as Mike enters the set in the same fashion as Jay Leno or Johnny Carson. Mike tells the audience about the show’s programming for the night and actually gives a bit of a bio on whom he will be playing. Mike then adds some humor describing how this guy has never really beaten me and I will prove that tonight and so on. Then before exiting the set, Mike says, “I’ll turn this portion of the program over to our events desk and ….. “ (Sammy Dieb or Rachael Abbink or some Miss America). The events desk would give some tournament results and some gossip regarding individuals and such. Then, the show would switch over to Mike and the set that contains a pool table. Along with the pool table is the competitor for that night’s competition. Upon Mike introducing the player, he will describe to the audience that if his opponent can win, it will be worth $1000 or $2000 or whatever amount. Mike will then take a few jabs at his opponent’s credentials, whereupon the opponent will throw some back. Mike then says something to the effect that they’re sending this portion up to the guys in the booth. Whereupon we will see a referee step forward to rack the balls and we can see Mike and his opponent go through their pre-match routine. The guys in the booth (Billy Incardona, Grady Mathews or whoever) will narrate the action. Although Mike and his opponent are wired for live statements. When the action is over, the announcers come in and allow Mike to gloat if he has won or to let him describe how lucky the guy is if he loses. The opponent can gloat if he has won and so forth. Interviews finished, Mike describes the honor of playing his opponent this evening and that next week’s challenger is ……. and with 17 living Hall of Fame members, that would produce a lot of TV time.

To me, that's entertaiment! And that is what Pocket Billiards lacks to attract sponsorship or a new generation of players.

Again, this is just one pool lover's opinion.
 
topcat1953 said:
Some thoughts of the "Issue" ..
Our wonderful sport of Pocket Billiards has sort of missed the boat on presenting itself to the public and to any major sponsorship. Sports in general is entertainment and we are not all that entertaining to anyone other than our immediate circle of enthusiasts.
The greatest entertainer Pocket Billiards ever had was Minnesota Fats. In the 1960's, he had a TV show that was broadcast on a major network every Saturday afternoon called, Minnesota Fats' Celebrity Billiards. There were movie and TV stars that would be on the show to play some pool with the Fat Man. The show was almost all off the cuff dialog and Fats was very funny and the stars seemed to enjoy themselves.
I know, as a kid, I watched it every chance I had. So, what happened to that type of entertainment?
Also, does our Sport's Double Elimination Tournament Format really make sense compared to the way other Sports compete? In Tennis, each player must defeat the other player the best of seven sets to win. In Golf, all of the players compete the first two days with score dictating who advances. Even then, the remaining field competes together with total score determining the winner. In Bowling, the entire field competes each day and the final four are determined by their scores or performance.
Is the Double Elimination format really suitable for Today's competition?
We need a "Hero". Someone the people recognize and want to follow.
The old Tournaments, up until the 60's, were Round Robin and if you were the best player in that Tournament, your record proved it. Plus, the World Champion could be challenged by a qualifyed individual to defend his or her Title. Willie Mosconi and Ralph Greenleaf were the best and made their reputations through these challenge matches. That is how they became stars.
Still, our presentation on the "hows" and "whats" of our Sport needs the most attention.
In my humble opinion, a weekly TV show similar to what Fats' had in the 60's, could set-up coprorate sponsorship and new found interest for the public. Plus, its' success could lay the groundwork for other endevours for us.
So, as an example, how would this sound, “Coca Cola presents, Mike Sigel’s Hall of Fame Challenge”?
Can you imagine, the Show starts as Mike enters the set in the same fashion as Jay Leno or Johnny Carson. Mike tells the audience about the show’s programming for the night and actually gives a bit of a bio on whom he will be playing. Mike then adds some humor describing how this guy has never really beaten me and I will prove that tonight and so on. Then before exiting the set, Mike says, “I’ll turn this portion of the program over to our events desk and ….. “ (Sammy Dieb or Rachael Abbink or some Miss America). The events desk would give some tournament results and some gossip regarding individuals and such. Then, the show would switch over to Mike and the set that contains a pool table. Along with the pool table is the competitor for that night’s competition. Upon Mike introducing the player, he will describe to the audience that if his opponent can win, it will be worth $1000 or $2000 or whatever amount. Mike will then take a few jabs at his opponent’s credentials, whereupon the opponent will throw some back. Mike then says something to the effect that they’re sending this portion up to the guys in the booth. Whereupon we will see a referee step forward to rack the balls and we can see Mike and his opponent go through their pre-match routine. The guys in the booth (Billy Incardona, Grady Mathews or whoever) will narrate the action. Although Mike and his opponent are wired for live statements. When the action is over, the announcers come in and allow Mike to gloat if he has won or to let him describe how lucky the guy is if he loses. The opponent can gloat if he has won and so forth. Interviews finished, Mike describes the honor of playing his opponent this evening and that next week’s challenger is ……. and with 17 living Hall of Fame members, that would produce a lot of TV time.

To me, that's entertaiment! And that is what Pocket Billiards lacks to attract sponsorship or a new generation of players.

Again, this is just one pool lover's opinion.
Click to expand...


Interesting idea. I can think of quite a few good candidates for host: Sigel, Archer, Massey, maybe Strickland. Also, you could have a few special weeks where a female HOF'er guest hosts, like Allison or Ewa.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top