The Monk: Useful instruction, or useless mumbo jumbo?

[QUOTE="With the follow through draw, the cue ball is not spinning backwards until it has traveled a few feet. Your tip pushes through in a follow through motion. When the cue ball contacts the object ball, it will slide away and then begin to come back. This is an important stroke to use when you want to control the position the cue ball will end."[/QUOTE]

I think what he means by this is, after cantact the cue ball will sit for second before english takes effect. If not then im really confused.

Mack
 
Donovan said:
I will say this:

The Monk's Volume 2 series "Fundamentals in Kicking and Banking" by Tom Rossman (Dr. Cue) is the bomb. Those 3 DVD's are the best visual kicking and banking explanantions that I have ever seen. You put that knowledge together with Freddy's book, Banking with the Beard and you have yourself a great learning tool, to jump your experience level up in a hurry. JMO
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TAP! TAP! TAP!

I agree 100%, Dr. Cues 3 video series is nothing short of excellent,as is the Beard's Book.Anyone can become a decent kicker/banker with this knowledge.

On the other hand I found The Monks 3 videos mediocre allthough there are some nuggets there as well.
RJ
 
> "the shot will shoot itself when it has reached its maximum tension"

> There is a very similar line in Zen and The Art Of Archery,which is a must-read for players looking to add something to the mental game. In the context that Herrigel means it,in archery the bow is pulled as far back as it goes,and snaps out of your hand,without you consciously releasing it. In Monk's context,you zone out on your stroke,and stroke alone,to the point where the arm says "to hell with waiting,I'm shooting now",and swings forward to make the ball and put the cue ball exactly where it needs to be,without your consciously swinging your arm and perhaps ruining the outcome by trying too hard,steering,etc. The only book of Monk's I've had any experience with was Point The Way,and I loved it,but he sure as hell could use some help from a college English major and a solid proof-reader,or a writing program with a spellchecker. Some of the stuff may take a while to absorb for some,and it may not work for everyone,but read it several times before you dismiss it as meaningless info. The really interesting stuff to me is the use of multiple strokes,sure a solid repeatable stroke in this game is a must,but there are several different ways to actually deliver the stroke to achieve the desired effect. Adopting or experimenting with such things may eventually open up possibilities that weren't there before,because you are more creative with your stroke,and can do certain things to influence cue ball behavior. His methods of standardizing your stroke speed,preshot routine,and practice are all solid too. Tommy D.
 
I read the Monk's description of the 4 Strokes http://www.themonk.com/four-strokes.htm , quite a while ago.

My impression was that it showed a very poor understanding of billiard physics...of cause and effect. I think it could harm the development of a player more than help.

Here is an excerpt:
"The draw strokes calls for a snap delivery. You must push the cue tip through the cue ball faster than the cue ball leaves the tip. In other words, the tip is almost all the way through the cue ball before the cue ball takes off. Since the cue tip is faster than the cue ball, the cue ball will immediately spin backwards. This causes the cue ball to come back to you."

YIKES!!!
 
I wonder what kind of spots the real Monk, Warren Costanza, could give this other monk, Tim Miller, and still beat him.

Like to see them match up, now that I think of it. I think Tim would be calling Warren "sensei" by the end.
 
Colin Colenso said:
I read the Monk's description of the 4 Strokes http://www.themonk.com/four-strokes.htm , quite a while ago.

My impression was that it showed a very poor understanding of billiard physics...of cause and effect. I think it could harm the development of a player more than help.

Here is an excerpt:
"The draw strokes calls for a snap delivery. You must push the cue tip through the cue ball faster than the cue ball leaves the tip. In other words, the tip is almost all the way through the cue ball before the cue ball takes off. Since the cue tip is faster than the cue ball, the cue ball will immediately spin backwards. This causes the cue ball to come back to you."

YIKES!!!
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Yikes, he is basically correct. The screw is a Karate punch, a stab, a snap in and out, very fast with a flick of the wrist, with a very short follow through of 3". Having a mental thought of a shot or stroke that makes it work as in this case is fine. It does not matter the tip leaves the ball in 1,000th of a second and his description is technically flawed and incorrect, the mind does not have to know that to make the shot work. Why is it any time you players encounter something you don't know or accept, it becomes mumbo jumbo.

Fone Man
 
yrraltsafone said:
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Yikes, he is basically correct. The screw is a Karate punch, a stab, a snap in and out, very fast with a flick of the wrist, with a very short follow through of 3".

Why is it any time you players encounter something you don't know or accept, it becomes mumbo jumbo.

Fone Man
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How about because this is philosophically and physically incorrect. The draw stroke has absolutely nothing to do with a "punch, stab, snap in and out, very fast with a flick of the wrist, or a very short follow through"! Everything you mention is the opposite of what natural draw is really about. A superb draw stroke (a smooth backswing, natural transition, and accelerated smooth delivery to a natural finish position) is easily possible with a lag speed swing (drawing the CB 3-4 feet back), provided the OB and CB are less than a couple of feet from each other. When the two balls are farther apart, the same elements deliver an accurate, repeatable effect, with a higher acceleration of the forward swing. A poke, punch or jab will never qualify as a stroke, and Monk's descriptions, imo, hinder understanding of how to easily develop a quality, natural, repeatable swing. :rolleyes: Although these things can be used to pocket the OB and move the CB, they are less efficient, and much more difficult to become predicatable and sustainable. There is only one stroke, but many ways to vary the way it is ultimately delivered.:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
I have never read any of "The Monk's" books, but I have always had an open mind. BUT, if I were to take anything to heart from anyone, that person would have had to have been to the top of the mountain and back down before I would even consider learning it. I have never heard of Tim Miller, and I'm sure he's a good coach to some beginning players. For my money, I would buy something authored by Nick Varner or Buddy Hall themselves, if they could write well enough to get their thoughts across.
 
the monk and randy as one

what about now randyg and the monk are partners now!!the perfect combo mental and the physics side put together!!!!ive worked with them both and i think its great the monk really helps my mental game and stays outta the physics and gets randy to explain all the fudamentals and physics eg stance,grip,how a draw works etc.

in my mind this combonation cant be beatin and look forward to some great products they do together!!!!
 
When Randy told me about the partnership, I had the same thoughts. I am hoping to get the chance to work with both of them this year. From what I understand, many of Tim's students will also be spending time with Randy or another member of the SPF family of instructors. I predect some very powerful players will be developed through this partnership.
Steve
 
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