Well, I have another question I was pondering the other day. I have a lot of thoughts on the subject but want to find out what others think. Why does the cream rise to the top? What keeps most cuemakers from rising to the ELITE? Why do some cuemakers seem to shoot up to the top relatively quick and others seem to always be at a lower level? I figure that most of the Elite top 10 - 20 share attributes that set them apart, so what are they?
The most successful and sought after cuemakers do this?
- Thread starter Troy Mckune
- Start date
Talent, taste, patience and versatility .
Most of all being anal.
my 2 cents
Most of all being anal.
my 2 cents
Troy Mckune said:
Good question Troy, I have given this some though myself. First I must say that I think that there is a factor of Luck involved here. In some cases the hardest thing to do is to become recognized for your ability. In the early days, before 1970 the number of cue makers Nation wide was very small, the exact number I can not say. These cue makers were popular mainly in the part of the country that they built cues in with the except of a few who were promoted by famous players of their day.
I do not think their is such a thing as quick rise to the top. Those who appear to, do not in most cases actually make it. I suspect that this is a very slow gradual process based upon the factors Joey has added in the post above me.
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All of what Joey an Manwon said but one of the main things in my opinion is quality control. A cuemaker can make 10 cues that are nearly perfecto an then let one get out that is a little iffy an what do you think happens. The one cue that has the imperfections gets 10 times the press an the word is out. If a cuemaker doesn't have a pile of cues he refuses to release for what ever reason it not going to work for him. In my opinion the cuemakers that get the big bucks or the new newbies that make the big time all cues from both are constant in quality an workmanship an wood with great figure doesn't hurt either.......................
Pinocchio
All of what Joey an Manwon said but one of the main things in my opinion is quality control. A cuemaker can make 10 cues that are nearly perfecto an then let one get out that is a little iffy an what do you think happens. The one cue that has the imperfections gets 10 times the press an the word is out. If a cuemaker doesn't have a pile of cues he refuses to release for what ever reason it not going to work for him. In my opinion the cuemakers that get the big bucks or the new newbies that make the big time all cues from both are constant in quality an workmanship an wood with great figure doesn't hurt either.......................
Pinocchio
I think that you get what you ask for. I started making Qs in 1986. I loved making & repairing Qs. I never wanted to be famous. I have always been happy just doing what i loved doing. Being famous, or one of the elite was never a thought in my mind. Although at the time I was making as good a Q as anyone, my only thought was to continue, what I was doing. Others felt the pull to be better & advanced beyond where I was in the industry. I don't feel badly about this, because this is just me. I wish all of those that I have helped to get where they are, the best. I will contiue to stumble through Q after Q & feel good about what I do & WHY....JER
For a few that are in the top ten, alot had to do with being in the right place at the right time and getting the right persons promoting their cues. For others it was because they were one of the first to do something or at least the first to popularize it. And of course they all had to be really good at what they do.
Top ten reasons why I think this happens
1. who you know
2. area you live in
3. your style-what makes you unique
4. quality of your work
5. quality of your woods
6. your versatility of machines/capabilities
7. your attitude towards cuemaking/customers - people person
8. time-when you started - what was hot
9. good finish - cosistanly
10. business sence overall-consistant pricing and demand
This is a few things I think effect becoming one of the greats. Some people have put all this together and became great, others lack in one area or the other that I feel holds them back.
The greats have been caught up to by several newer builders, but , the greats have established themselves , so even if the newby maker is equal in his cuemaking skills overall, he is still not due to the establishment of the greats name over time.
Just my 2 cents,
Jim Lee
1. who you know
2. area you live in
3. your style-what makes you unique
4. quality of your work
5. quality of your woods
6. your versatility of machines/capabilities
7. your attitude towards cuemaking/customers - people person
8. time-when you started - what was hot
9. good finish - cosistanly
10. business sence overall-consistant pricing and demand
This is a few things I think effect becoming one of the greats. Some people have put all this together and became great, others lack in one area or the other that I feel holds them back.
The greats have been caught up to by several newer builders, but , the greats have established themselves , so even if the newby maker is equal in his cuemaking skills overall, he is still not due to the establishment of the greats name over time.
Just my 2 cents,
Jim Lee
One thing I have noticed that has not been mentioned, and something I feel plays a huge role, first and foremost....consistent playability.
Lisa
Lisa
I heard hit is "subjective". LOLmasonh said:
Somehow some makers' cues are famous for their hit.
Even their sneakies.
I've tested Zylr sneakies that easily outhit thousands of dollars cues.
IMO,i think in years past some guys could get away with a beautiful cue that hit or played so-so or even bad,but now the average customer seems to be more informed on what a cue is supposed to do or to be able to do.let's face it some cues don't hit or play as well as others.
At the start of Japan's cue buying boom a lot of new makers popped out and concentrated on making beautiful looking cues. But times have changed and and people learn as time goes by. Economy too is a lot tougher now. It used to be that there was so much disposable cash in Japan that business owners force their employees to go on vacations. The stepped up enforcement of the ivory ban has made consumers cast their eyes towards the simplier cues that play good. The age of the "Bling" or "all show and no go" is over for a few years now so all the lousy playing "bling" cues have lost favor.masonh said:
I love this stage of the demand trend I get to modify/tune a lot of these "bling" cues. Good for the repair income side. Kind of gets rediculous at times as there are times that I have to replace major sections of high end cues or the whole cue itself.
OK, so far we have:
1. Talent
2. Taste/Style (Which I would define as Very good design/layout skills. The creation of appealing designs)
3. Patience (Which could be taken in two ways: adhering to a strict process for seasoning their wood as well as the patience to complete tedious designs flawlessly.)
4. Versatility
5. Luck/ Right place right time
6. Promotion by top pros
7. Location (which I think today means alot less)
8. Quality control
9. Innovation/ first to do something and do it well
10. Time they started
11. Hit and Consistent playability
12. Customer Service/ Attitude.
13. Being an apprentice to a famous cuemaker
OK boys (and girl) hop to it. LOL
I would also like to add:
Higher demand than supply and maintaining that imbalance.
If you look at most of the greats they have a pretty healthy waiting list, sometimes even 3-10 years. For most of them, there cues can be sold the day after you received it for more than you paid. I would say this is a huge part of their success whether they planned it or it just happened.
I have three examples:
1. Southwest. The day you get your cue (8-10 years later) you can flip it for more. I now a person that orders 3 a year every year just to sell. I am sure he is not alone
2. Coker cues. I like Coker cues and own one of the most high end cues Tom Coker ever made. This cue I bought recently for $1000, it originally sold for $2000 in 2002. I think Coker cues play very well, his designs are for the most part very good, nice ring work, and the finish is very good. I would say he is a successful cuemaker but will never be highly sought after or considered one of the elites because of two things: A few cues here and there have badly uneven points and he produces nearly 500 cues a year.
3. Sugartree. I now he is not considered an Elite cuemaker yet but he definitely made a smart business move (whether on purpose or not) by not taking any more orders. His cue values jumped through the roof and drove demand even higher. The second he opens his list (if ever) he will have people lining up even if he charged double.
1. Talent
2. Taste/Style (Which I would define as Very good design/layout skills. The creation of appealing designs)
3. Patience (Which could be taken in two ways: adhering to a strict process for seasoning their wood as well as the patience to complete tedious designs flawlessly.)
4. Versatility
5. Luck/ Right place right time
6. Promotion by top pros
7. Location (which I think today means alot less)
8. Quality control
9. Innovation/ first to do something and do it well
10. Time they started
11. Hit and Consistent playability
12. Customer Service/ Attitude.
13. Being an apprentice to a famous cuemaker
OK boys (and girl) hop to it. LOL
I would also like to add:
Higher demand than supply and maintaining that imbalance.
If you look at most of the greats they have a pretty healthy waiting list, sometimes even 3-10 years. For most of them, there cues can be sold the day after you received it for more than you paid. I would say this is a huge part of their success whether they planned it or it just happened.
I have three examples:
1. Southwest. The day you get your cue (8-10 years later) you can flip it for more. I now a person that orders 3 a year every year just to sell. I am sure he is not alone
2. Coker cues. I like Coker cues and own one of the most high end cues Tom Coker ever made. This cue I bought recently for $1000, it originally sold for $2000 in 2002. I think Coker cues play very well, his designs are for the most part very good, nice ring work, and the finish is very good. I would say he is a successful cuemaker but will never be highly sought after or considered one of the elites because of two things: A few cues here and there have badly uneven points and he produces nearly 500 cues a year.
3. Sugartree. I now he is not considered an Elite cuemaker yet but he definitely made a smart business move (whether on purpose or not) by not taking any more orders. His cue values jumped through the roof and drove demand even higher. The second he opens his list (if ever) he will have people lining up even if he charged double.