The natural angle...

R

RonnieOSullivan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Personally as I play and look for routes to get on the right side of the ball and that sort of thing, I feel like I'm using stop shots and trying to draw the ball more often than I should be, that being because I have more confidence in being able to draw the ball back than knowing exactly where the CB is going to go coming off the OB and a few rails... I watch the pros and they're hitting with follow and going off three rails, between balls, stuff that I rarely have enough confidence in doing before I'd try to draw it back or something (oftentimes resulting in over or underdrawing it of course). I always see a few balls that are somewhat in the way and am too worried I'll just slam right into them and hook myself, or the CB will go flying who knows where.

My question is, does knowing exactly where the CB is going to come off the OB come with hitting a million balls? Should I go back to basics and focus totally on that for a while when practicing? Are there any drills anyone recommends for really getting to know the natural angle to a T? I feel like this is the major thing holding my game back.
 
http://dr-dave-billiards.com/

Try this website out. It really helped me learn how to predict the cue ball's route after contact with an OB. For the most part, if a cue ball is rolling into an OB and hits between a 1/4 to 3/4 hit it will travel at around 30 degrees off the object ball. If the CB is sliding into the OB (stun shot) it will come off at its natural tangent line. Really thin and really thick hit are a little different but since most shots at the table fall in the 1/4 to 3/4 contact range this is a good place to start. I just started playing pool in a league this summer and this has helped me (especially in 9 ball) a ton. Dr Dave has some great videos on his site that demonstrate these principles and helped me to understand how they work.
 
RonnieOSullivan said:
Personally as I play and look for routes to get on the right side of the ball and that sort of thing, I feel like I'm using stop shots and trying to draw the ball more often than I should be, that being because I have more confidence in being able to draw the ball back than knowing exactly where the CB is going to go coming off the OB and a few rails... I watch the pros and they're hitting with follow and going off three rails, between balls, stuff that I rarely have enough confidence in doing before I'd try to draw it back or something (oftentimes resulting in over or underdrawing it of course). I always see a few balls that are somewhat in the way and am too worried I'll just slam right into them and hook myself, or the CB will go flying who knows where.

My question is, does knowing exactly where the CB is going to come off the OB come with hitting a million balls? Should I go back to basics and focus totally on that for a while when practicing? Are there any drills anyone recommends for really getting to know the natural angle to a T? I feel like this is the major thing holding my game back.
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Anything to do with pool comes with hitting a million balls. But hitting a million balls whilst avoiding going forward and through gaps isn't going to help.

The pros have an uncanny knowledge of where the CB will travel even 3 or 4 rails down the line. Efren was magical at this. He could find kicking routes on a jam packed table going 3 or 4 rails that others just can't see until Efren pulls it off. They are able to do this, and especially go through 2 ball gaps after pocketing a ball because they pocket the OB EXACTLY into the section of the pocket they worked out CB travel from.

For example; if I planned on pocketing the 2 ball in the left 3rd of the pocket, I would work out the tangent line based on this, and thus my whole CB path. But if I hit the 2 into the middle or right 3rd of the pocket that planned tangent line isn't going to be close to where the CB actually goes.

So yes, do practice and go back to basics on the natural angle and CB path, but pay attention to what part of the pocket the OB goes into. So if you don't manage to fit the CB through 'that gap' you can fine tune the practice. You will know if its because you didn't pocket the CB correctly or whether its because you didn't predict the CB path accurately enough.
 
http://dr-dave-billiards.com/

Go here. Great resources and videos on this subject. Remember if the CB is rolling into an OB, for hits between 1/4 and 3/4, the CB will rebound at close to 30 degrees (peace sign rule) if the cue ball is hit as a stun shot the CB will come off at its natural tangent line path. I just started this summer playing in a league with little experience beforehand, and have gotten so much better with this info, it really helps in 9 ball for setting up for the next shot.
 
Tor Lowry has a video on YouTube that explains this very clearly(I'm sure there are others) it's much easier to see it than have somebody explain it. Not sure of the name of the video but its fairly long (an hour or two, maybe more)
Good luck
 
jasonlaus said:
Tor Lowry has a video on YouTube that explains this very clearly(I'm sure there are others) it's much easier to see it than have somebody explain it. Not sure of the name of the video but its fairly long (an hour or two, maybe more)
Good luck
Click to expand...
Just search 'Advanced Pool Lesson' into YouTube and its on the first page. I agree its easier to take something in if its shown, rather than a half arsed attempt at explaining it.
 
RonnieOSullivan said:
Personally as I play and look for routes to get on the right side of the ball and that sort of thing, I feel like I'm using stop shots and trying to draw the ball more often than I should be, that being because I have more confidence in being able to draw the ball back than knowing exactly where the CB is going to go coming off the OB and a few rails... I watch the pros and they're hitting with follow and going off three rails, between balls, stuff that I rarely have enough confidence in doing before I'd try to draw it back or something (oftentimes resulting in over or underdrawing it of course). I always see a few balls that are somewhat in the way and am too worried I'll just slam right into them and hook myself, or the CB will go flying who knows where.

My question is, does knowing exactly where the CB is going to come off the OB come with hitting a million balls? Should I go back to basics and focus totally on that for a while when practicing? Are there any drills anyone recommends for really getting to know the natural angle to a T? I feel like this is the major thing holding my game back.
Click to expand...

Get Dr. Dave's VEPS series.
 
Billiards?

Hi,
Half-a-century or more ago, pool halls still had plenty of billiard tables. Most pool players had some, or a lot, of experience with such pursuits as balk-line and 3-cushion billiards. So cue ball paths on a pool table were obvious.
Take care,
Nick
 
You might want to start practicing the reference shots in Bob Henning's "The Pro Book" and/or the position routes in Phill Capelle's "Play Your Best 9-Ball". Practicing those shots will take you a long way towards mastery of multi-rail position routes. The other thing is simply to watch as many pro matches as you can. After a few hundred hours you'll start being able to predict where the ball will go with some precision, and the game will suddenly start looking a lot easier--and a lot more fun!

Lastly, there's some great information out there to help you predict the path of cueball when you're sending the cueball forward on a cut shot. Grab it!!

Good luck, and remember that it all begins with the tangent lines!
 
Play what your comfortable with. Practice what your not. I tend to do draw shots more often. That's something I am comfortable with. However if a ball is blocking my path for position for a draw shot then I need to find another path. I wouldn't say it's about which shot is better. It's about which shot will get you proper position with the least amount of risk and effort.
 
Thanks for the advice all. I've watched a lot of Dr Dave's stuff (he's a legend for putting it all out there) and the peace sign gives me an idea but I still don't have the confidence with just knowing where it's going to go based on the shot. I'll look into all the media you guys have suggested and take your advice.

Cheers
 
RonnieOSullivan said:
My question is, does knowing exactly where the CB is going to come off the OB come with hitting a million balls?
Click to expand...
That's one way to do it.

If you don't want to wait that long, there are much easier ways. For more info (including lots of online videos and instructional articles), see:

30 degree rule
where the CB goes for different types of shots
cue ball control resource page

RonnieOSullivan said:
Are there any drills anyone recommends for really getting to know the natural angle to a T?
Click to expand...
Yes:

drills for practicing cue ball control and position play

I'd also recommend you use the Billiard University (BU) playing-ability Exams as a pool workout or practice routine to improve all areas of your game, especially cue ball control. If you do, please consider posting scores (and videos if possible) on the AZB BU thread.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
That's one way to do it.

If you don't want to wait that long, there are much easier ways. For more info (including lots of online videos and instructional articles), see:

30 degree rule
where the CB goes for different types of shots
cue ball control resource page

Yes:

drills for practicing cue ball control and position play

I'd also recommend you use the Billiard University (BU) playing-ability Exams as a pool workout or practice routine to improve all areas of your game, especially cue ball control. If you do, please consider posting scores (and videos if possible) on the AZB BU thread.

Enjoy,
Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks Doc, I'll do all those things. Appreciate the help.
 
I'll echo the billiard comment (3-cushion) above, but maybe you don't have a table nearby. If you do, get to it.

Here's a pool drill/exercise/practice to get started... put an object ball a diamond from the corner pocket along the foot rail. Move it out so it is about two balls off the end rail and even with that first diamond. Place the cue ball on the foot string (along where balls are spotted) just a little further from the end rail so you will be shooting parallel to the end rail to pocket the ball. This is about a half-ball shot. You are going to be shooting this a lot, so you may want to mark the locations.

Pocket the object ball and hit different spots on the other end cushion after touching the side rail. Put chalk up where you want to hit on the second cushion and experiment with what you need to do to get the ball there. You will need draw for some of the points. Others will need nothing but side. Others may work best with follow and side.

Sometimes hit the shot hard enough to get the cue ball back to the foot cushion. Note where it returns to according to where you hit on the far end rail. This varies a lot with different tables.

With this shot, you should also be able to go straight to the other end rail without hitting a cushion. You should also be able to go very easily side-rail/side-rail.

This is a very easy shot to make, but you have to be accurate in pocketing it because cheating the pocket will change the angle of the cue ball.
 
RonnieOSullivan said:
My question is, does knowing exactly where the CB is going to come off the OB come with hitting a million balls? Should I go back to basics and focus totally on that for a while when practicing?
Click to expand...

Some good advice in terms of drills already given. But focusing on the 'basics', by which I mean fundamentals, or stroke technique, is also very important.

It is not how many balls you hit that matters, but how consistently you hit them. This depends on developing a consistent stroke.

If you hit the cb inconsistently then it will react inconsistently. Of course this impacts the shot that you are playing; but it also reduces the quality of information going into your 'memory bank' for future use. In other words not only will you not get the cb control right on this shot, but you will not learn effectively what you need to do when similar shots come up in future.

The converse is also true. Once you have learned to hit the ball consistently, it is remarkably easy to get to the point of being able predict very accurately where the cb is going.

But getting this stroke consistency is neither quick nor easy. In the meantime, you should find that the natural roll shot is much more predictable shot than draw - it is less sensitive to certain types of stroke errors. (Similarly the hb shot is fairly error-tolerant.)

So as a short to medium term action, it is worth breaking the draw habit. Try a few practice racks using only a natural follow shot. If you get into trouble, move the white by hand and keep going.
 
Leaving yourself natural angles and working the rails will make the game so much easier for you. Not to mention likely bring your speed up a notch or two. It will take practice but its worth it.
 
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