Even Varner mentioned during commentary that he has problems executing power shots.
The Pause
- Thread starter Matt_24
- Start date
Perhaps his position play was good enough to rarely face that situation of being 7 feet from the OB and straight and then having to draw back 7- 9 feet? Do you suppose? A top pro rarely faces super power stroke needs- end of story!
I have a power stroke, but I can also finesse the shot if I need to.
One guy used to call me "Monster Stroke" after he saw me draw the cue ball 9 foot straight back to the end corner pocket when shooting an object ball that was sitting inside the the jaws of a corner pocket on the opposite end and side of the table.
FWIW, it was in a 14.1 tournament.
You couldn't be more wrong, every top player faces power shots in situations where they come to the table and ''have'' to shoot as a result of what the opponent left them.
That's why they are top players, understood..?
Talk is cheap, show us footage of your ''monster stroke''.
" The pause to enjoy the moment." Or something similar is my recall of a statement by....? Can't remember. But for me the pause is similar to the pause before the leap of faith.
Of course the whole movie is a classic. You Have watched Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Right?
Different situations get a different aproach and method.
It's hard to know how You will react going into battle.
It's the same process just as in baseball a different style and bat favored precision over power. Jackie Robinson and Nelly Fox were lead off high percentage hitters that their job was a base hit. The handles on bats made to their specs were called coke bottle. Lots more meat down close to and through the hand allowed hitting balls that would break a home run tuned bat as they were thin handle to facilitate the quick wrist snap that launched 'em. Shrug
A similar fine tuned application of energy to the cue ballis put on display by Jason Shaw. His meat and potatoes shots. Were so short and compact. His delivery changed significantly when power was needed.
Of course the whole movie is a classic. You Have watched Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Right?
Different situations get a different aproach and method.
It's hard to know how You will react going into battle.
It's the same process just as in baseball a different style and bat favored precision over power. Jackie Robinson and Nelly Fox were lead off high percentage hitters that their job was a base hit. The handles on bats made to their specs were called coke bottle. Lots more meat down close to and through the hand allowed hitting balls that would break a home run tuned bat as they were thin handle to facilitate the quick wrist snap that launched 'em. Shrug
A similar fine tuned application of energy to the cue ballis put on display by Jason Shaw. His meat and potatoes shots. Were so short and compact. His delivery changed significantly when power was needed.
Pool players marvel at the 6x12 snooker tables. I never considered them to be big. I learned that most of the play was on about a third of the table, the red balls, the black ball, occasionally a pink or blue to get back in line. It didn't take long to learn the playing area was usually small then finish by running a drill with the balls mostly in set spots. I found the snooker table to be more similar to a bar table than a nine footer.
I was laid up a few months years ago and watched video of the pro's make a lot of monster draw shots when follow shots would have worked better. Bring the cue ball to the next spot with one rail or four?
Hu
Paul Bell
Well-known member
Shortstop on Pool explains that the muscles used in the backstroke differ from those in the front stroke. By not pausing, the muscles used in the backstroke interfere with the forward stroke making it harder to stroke straight.
Rapid back and forth motion can be helpful if swinging an axe, punching, or breaking a rack but it causes a jerky and crooked stroke on a regular pool stroke.
See at 6:30 in
quite a few, 24, but those most involved in cue movement is the bicep and tricep. Tricep draws it back and tricep moves it forward. more: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/body/22312-arm-muscles
Paul Bell
Well-known member
Not only muscles but bone and tendons, too (from Shortstop's video):
The muscles and tendons of the human arm allow a wide range of motion most of which are of no benefit to shooting pool. Your triceps are connected to the ulna bone for extending the forearm. That’s the backstroke.
Your biceps are connected to the radius bone for contracting the forearm.
In the cue delivery, the forearm muscles assist a bit, but mostly serve to rotate, that's suppinate and pronate, the forearm as well as operate the tendons that control the fingers and make your cue stick not go straight.
How?
First between stretching and shortening, your tendons add energy — like springs. The faster you lengthen your tendons — that's the faster your backstroke is — and the faster the transition, the more intense is this reaction.
Now, this unwanted and unneeded energy, called amortization, is great if you're swinging an axe or a baseball bat or punching or, interestingly, breaking a rack of ten Ball, but on your pool shots, it causes a jerky and crooked stroke.
Second, is a thing called muscle recruitment when your brain knows you're about to rapidly contract a muscle. It begins recruiting those muscles before the action takes place. A fast backstroke recruits your forearm muscles such that you cannot help but engage them on the follow through causing inconsistent delivery speed and direction.
The more efficient and slow the backstroke motion, the less involved are the forearm muscles and tendons. Then, when the bicep muscles contract, the radius bone only travels in one drection and that is straight, with little to no pause at the transition.
No other muscles are activated allowing a smooth transition from triceps to biceps muscle contraction.
Your biceps are connected to the radius bone for contracting the forearm.
In the cue delivery, the forearm muscles assist a bit, but mostly serve to rotate, that's suppinate and pronate, the forearm as well as operate the tendons that control the fingers and make your cue stick not go straight.
How?
First between stretching and shortening, your tendons add energy — like springs. The faster you lengthen your tendons — that's the faster your backstroke is — and the faster the transition, the more intense is this reaction.
Now, this unwanted and unneeded energy, called amortization, is great if you're swinging an axe or a baseball bat or punching or, interestingly, breaking a rack of ten Ball, but on your pool shots, it causes a jerky and crooked stroke.
Second, is a thing called muscle recruitment when your brain knows you're about to rapidly contract a muscle. It begins recruiting those muscles before the action takes place. A fast backstroke recruits your forearm muscles such that you cannot help but engage them on the follow through causing inconsistent delivery speed and direction.
The more efficient and slow the backstroke motion, the less involved are the forearm muscles and tendons. Then, when the bicep muscles contract, the radius bone only travels in one drection and that is straight, with little to no pause at the transition.
No other muscles are activated allowing a smooth transition from triceps to biceps muscle contraction.
CajunPopeye
Well-known member
Saturday the top forearm and both lower arrows in photo were worked pretty hard, for me. I'm still sore today, Wednesday. I played for almost 8 hours that day/night.
On a previous trip down anatomy lane, I think we discovered that it is the brachialis muscle in the arm and not the biceps (biceps brachii) that is the main muscle that closes the forearm and brings the hand forward.
As far as all of the claims and rationalizations here.... I wonder if anyone whose job it is to study sports physiology/kinesiology has every looked at this stuff. It seems that mostly what we have is hand waving.
BTW, "biceps" is singular, as in, "My right biceps is a little sore."
As far as all of the claims and rationalizations here.... I wonder if anyone whose job it is to study sports physiology/kinesiology has every looked at this stuff. It seems that mostly what we have is hand waving.
BTW, "biceps" is singular, as in, "My right biceps is a little sore."
@Bob Jewett
although the brachialis muscle is the main forearm flexor regardles of hand position (neutral /pronated/supinated)
the
brachioradialis is important forearm flexor when the hand is neutral(like when gripping the cue)or pronated (some pool players are pronated when they grip the cue)
Brachioradialis: The Neutral-Grip Specialist
This forearm muscle is most active when the forearm is pronated or neutral.
My point is that there is a hell of a lot more to the arm than biceps and triceps. We need to consider what all of these things are doing. They may be doing nothing in an extended pause while providing support in a smooth transition.
Perform an unusual activity for hours and you may find you have pissed off muscles and tissue you didn't even know existed!
I studied sports medicine for a few years, a sidetrack. I also was into moderate bodybuilding for a few years. One of my friends was into bodybuilding seriously enough he was in Arnold's encyclopedia.
Our muscles can be trained, all are trained in an unbalanced manner just by our daily activities. Eyesight is the same. We can train one eye or the other to be stronger than it was. If we don't have a strongly dominant eye we can even train the other eye to be dominant.
With fairly weak dominance I have trained either eye to be dominant at one time or another. I don't know if that is possible with a strongly dominant eye as I didn't have one to experiment with.
I think of an extended pause as a time when all of the supporting tissue is relaxed or tensed for no "normal" reason. I try to avoid an extended pause.
One time there is an extended pause is when drawing a pistol to an electronic timer. When the button is pressed the timer goes off at a random time between zero and thirty seconds. This forces a very difficult state. Some muscles are tenser than others but none are tense, that slows the draw. Difficult to find the right compromise.
I think of gunfights in the old west. Normally people are average fast but what happens when a normal person runs into a Jerry Miculek or Max Michelle? With electronic timers providing starts and timing they both were freakishly fast! I remember Max as a child of twelve or thirteen. He was setting records then. I don't know what records are now but many years ago Max was able to draw from hands over his shoulders and shoot five steel plates in 1.71 seconds! I thought I was smoking when I did it in two and a half seconds.
It would be interesting if pool or snooker got mainstream enough that sports medicine was heavily involved. The pause/no pause question might be definitively answered.
Hu
Perform an unusual activity for hours and you may find you have pissed off muscles and tissue you didn't even know existed!
I studied sports medicine for a few years, a sidetrack. I also was into moderate bodybuilding for a few years. One of my friends was into bodybuilding seriously enough he was in Arnold's encyclopedia.
Our muscles can be trained, all are trained in an unbalanced manner just by our daily activities. Eyesight is the same. We can train one eye or the other to be stronger than it was. If we don't have a strongly dominant eye we can even train the other eye to be dominant.
With fairly weak dominance I have trained either eye to be dominant at one time or another. I don't know if that is possible with a strongly dominant eye as I didn't have one to experiment with.
I think of an extended pause as a time when all of the supporting tissue is relaxed or tensed for no "normal" reason. I try to avoid an extended pause.
One time there is an extended pause is when drawing a pistol to an electronic timer. When the button is pressed the timer goes off at a random time between zero and thirty seconds. This forces a very difficult state. Some muscles are tenser than others but none are tense, that slows the draw. Difficult to find the right compromise.
I think of gunfights in the old west. Normally people are average fast but what happens when a normal person runs into a Jerry Miculek or Max Michelle? With electronic timers providing starts and timing they both were freakishly fast! I remember Max as a child of twelve or thirteen. He was setting records then. I don't know what records are now but many years ago Max was able to draw from hands over his shoulders and shoot five steel plates in 1.71 seconds! I thought I was smoking when I did it in two and a half seconds.
It would be interesting if pool or snooker got mainstream enough that sports medicine was heavily involved. The pause/no pause question might be definitively answered.
Hu
stopping may or may not, and will for some help get their aim more in place. or maybe help them from jerking off line.
but stopping in no way helps your cue go more straight forward.
you can rationalize your muscles all you want.
but anything going back and forth in a straight motion never gets aided by stopping it and restarting the motion.
but by all means, if that is what it takes for you to hit where you need to, then that is the proper type of pool stroke for you.
unless for aiming purposes, i cant think of any sport where throwing or moving a club or object of some sort do you visibly and pause stop in the backswing,
but stopping in no way helps your cue go more straight forward.
you can rationalize your muscles all you want.
but anything going back and forth in a straight motion never gets aided by stopping it and restarting the motion.
but by all means, if that is what it takes for you to hit where you need to, then that is the proper type of pool stroke for you.
unless for aiming purposes, i cant think of any sport where throwing or moving a club or object of some sort do you visibly and pause stop in the backswing,
Last edited:
Stopping at the back looks clunky to me. Stopping at the cue ball is the way. lol...
Yeah....
Hell, yeah.