The Problem With Shane's 3 Fouls Against Alex

OLD NO 9

OLD NO 9

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After Shane ran 67 on Alex he put himself in a position where he didn't have a makeable ball. Instead of selling out a wide open almost full rack, Shane decided to take an intentional foul Alex followed suit until Shane took his third foul.

Shane took the 3 foul penalty and re broke the rack, Problem is that everybody seemed to forget Shane started his run after Alex ran around 53 and scratched in the side pocket after breaking up a clump of balls.

From what I saw Alex took the third foul first, and should have been assessed the 3 foul penalty and rebroke not Shane.

Was I seeing things or did everyone else forget about Alex's scratch in the side pocket?
 
this happens often in pool, and it always has been if players themselves didn't remember it, then they just go along and continue doing what they remember.

I say this because just the other day I was watching a video of 9ball or 10ball can't remember the game exactly, Shane was playing against Mike Dechaine.

Shane broke and scratched, then Mike started clearing up until he faced an issue, and then hooked Shane, then Shane came to the table and fouled, Mike then wanted to 3 foul shane, and hooked him again, Shane fouled once more which is now a 3 consecutive foul, the game should have been done by now but Mike forgotten about the scratch then he told Shane "Hey you're on 2" lol while he was already on 3 and game should be over, the problem is that there was a commentator & referee of the match who is Kenny and he noticed this and he said on the commentator box "Oh look at this, shane already lost the game but Mike doesn't know it, he thinks shane on 2" btw Kenny was a referee also, in my book he should have stepped up and told both gentelmen that Shane is on 2 prior to the 3rd foul, and explained to them that Shane scratched on the break, but he didn't. He said, in pool the players should know, I really disagree with this philosophy myself, regradless what happened after this is Mike hooked shane again thinking he's on 2 to make a 3 foul game, and shane hitted the ball here and they continue playing the rack.

So I dunno, alot of things in pool that I disagree with, but life goes on I guess.
 
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This is the US Open Straight Pool final? Is there a ref? If yes, wtf? And if yes does the ref record the goings on as they go on. If no no and no, watch the snooker.
 
Swighey said:
This is the US Open Straight Pool final? Is there a ref? If yes, wtf? And if yes does the ref record the goings on as they go on. If no no and no, watch the snooker.
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There is no ref on the table. The best way to do it under the circumstances is to mark the fouls on the scoreboard so you don't forget them. Also, if they are on the scoreboard, there is no need to warn your opponent.

Actually, it was a semifinal.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Also, if they are on the scoreboard, there is no need to warn your opponent.
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Is that true? My understanding is that the ref (or your opponent) must warn you when you come to the table. It's pretty specific. I think it kind of sucks to get hurt that way, but rules is rules.
 
Bob Jewett said:
There is no ref on the table. The best way to do it under the circumstances is to mark the fouls on the scoreboard so you don't forget them. Also, if they are on the scoreboard, there is no need to warn your opponent.

Actually, it was a semifinal.
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By the way nice shooting "Giant Killer" Bob.
 
A few of us in the stands knew what was happening. The td said it was not a reffed match. It was up to the players to make the call. Shane may not have remembered the first foul because he had been at the table for a while running his 60.
Luckily it did not change the outcome
 
It's the opponent's responsibility to tell the shooter that "he's on two" before the inning resumes and not the referee if there is one.. If he doesn't tell him then the shooter could foul again and not be penalized for the third. The players HAVE to watch out for themselves. A TD or ref could look at a video afterwards to settle an argument though. Mitch
 
it was not a loss of game...

asbani said:
this happens often in pool, and it always has been if players themselves didn't remember it, then they just go along and continue doing what they remember.

I say this because just the other day I was watching a video of 9ball or 10ball can't remember the game exactly, Shane was playing against Mike Dechaine.

Shane broke and scratched, then Mike started clearing up until he faced an issue, and then hooked Shane, then Shane came to the table and fouled, Mike then wanted to 3 foul shane, and hooked him again, Shane fouled once more which is now a 3 consecutive foul, the game should have been done by now but Mike forgotten about the scratch then he told Shane "Hey you're on 2" lol while he was already on 3 and game should be over, the problem is that there was a commentator & referee of the match who is Kenny and he noticed this and he said on the commentator box "Oh look at this, shane already lost the game but Mike doesn't know it, he thinks shane on 2" btw Kenny was a referee also, in my book he should have stepped up and told both gentelmen that Shane is on 2 prior to the 3rd foul, and explained to them that Shane scratched on the break, but he didn't. He said, in pool the players should know, I really disagree with this philosophy myself, regradless what happened after this is Mike hooked shane again thinking he's on 2 to make a 3 foul game, and shane hitted the ball here and they continue playing the rack.

So I dunno, alot of things in pool that I disagree with, but life goes on I guess.
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in order for three fouls to constitute a loss of game in 9 ball or ten ball, you must be warned PRIOR to the third foul...

Jaden
 
One-pocket players put a coin near their pocket when they owe a ball.
It should be more important to record your scratch at 14.1 because the time interval could be much greater between turns at the table.
Alex and Shane both slept it, so no foul.

strangely enough, Alex 3-fouled himself anyway, although Shane needn't have lost 15.

I was watching and forgot about Alex's foul at 59 points in his initial run.
 
pt109 said:
One-pocket players put a coin near their pocket when they owe a ball.
It should be more important to record your scratch at 14.1 because the time interval could be much greater between turns at the table.
Alex and Shane both slept it, so no foul.

strangely enough, Alex 3-fouled himself anyway, although Shane needn't have lost 15.

I was watching and forgot about Alex's foul at 59 points in his initial run.
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Yeah, Shane got Alex on 4 fouls. So I think one of them carries over to the next time they play.
 
john coloccia said:
Is that true? My understanding is that the ref (or your opponent) must warn you when you come to the table. It's pretty specific. I think it kind of sucks to get hurt that way, but rules is rules.
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It seems no longer to be a rule. At 14.1 tournaments there used to be scorekeepers and a scoreboard and fouls were posted to the scoreboard. There was not normally a warning, IIRC.

I think that if there is an official visible indication of the number of fouls that no warning should be required.
 
I agree..,

Bob Jewett said:
It seems no longer to be a rule. At 14.1 tournaments there used to be scorekeepers and a scoreboard and fouls were posted to the scoreboard. There was not normally a warning, IIRC.

I think that if there is an official visible indication of the number of fouls that no warning should be required.
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I think there should be some sort of score card in the future as the innings are so long it is to easy to forget anything not marked.
 
How many balls are you deducted for fouling in 14.1? I've never really played the game officially so I don't know.

Doesn't the penalty increase for each consecutive foul?
 
The 3 foul penalty is 15 balls but to get there took three balls fouled first so the total deduction becomes 18. Mitch
 
nine o nine said:
The 3 foul penalty is 15 balls but to get there took three balls fouled first so the total deduction becomes 18. Mitch
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I have taken three fouls (gambling)....I lost one, one, fifteen,..for a total of seventeen.
....anybody know if that is wrong?
 
pt109 said:
I have taken three fouls (gambling)....I lost one, one, fifteen,..for a total of seventeen.
....anybody know if that is wrong?
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As nine o nine said, it is a total of 18.

From the WPA (world-standardized) rules: "A point is subtracted for the third foul as usual, and then the additional fifteen-point penalty is subtracted and the offending player’s consecutive foul count is reset to zero."
 
AtLarge said:
As nine o nine said, it is a total of 18.

From the WPA (world-standardized) rules: "A point is subtracted for the third foul as usual, and then the additional fifteen-point penalty is subtracted and the offending player’s consecutive foul count is reset to zero."
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Thanx.....I guess I owe a few guys some points....
...mind you, I never received 18 points for a 3-foul either.
 
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