The REAL reason we keep losing the Mosconi Cup

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dnschmidt

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The actual reason for our continuing beat downs is two fold:

1) Pool in Europe is played in clubs. It is considered a sport. These clubs are what we at one time in America, if you're old enough to remember, were called pool halls. These were serious places to play pool and learn the game of pool. In my native PA alcohol was forbidden to be served in pool halls and that was good thing. Jimmy Marino had a place in Bridgeville called the Golden Cue. All 9 ft Gold Crowns and Jimmy was more than happy to show you a shot if you asked. You went there to play pool not drink. In America today pool is considered a game.

2) The seven foot bar table (oddly enough always found in bars). In Europe these are rare (that's a good thing) in America they are like locust. Finding a 9-foot table in any city in America requires Dick Tracey like investigative skills. There are no incubators of fresh American pool talent since there are no real tables for them to play on.

If you doubt either of these I present the following as evidence: When Griff held the U. S. Open 10 ball at the Rio on 9-foot tables along with the bar table championships hardly any of the bar table people cared to watch the best players in the world compete against each other. Pool is poisoned in America and will never recover. Why they even play the Mosconi Cup is a mystery to me as the outcome is preordained. I look forward with great anticipation to the Efren Reyes Cup.
 
According to other threads..., Fundamentals and Americans can’t shoot and Coaches make no difference. 😇
 
The real reason is the Euros are better. Plain and simple. Their top 10 to 15 are better than our top 5.
 
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dnschmidt said:
The actual reason for our continuing beat downs is two fold:

1) Pool in Europe is played in clubs. It is considered a sport. These clubs are what we at one time in America, if you're old enough to remember, were called pool halls. These were serious places to play pool and learn the game of pool. In my native PA alcohol was forbidden to be served in pool halls and that was good thing. Jimmy Marino had a place in Bridgeville called the Golden Cue. All 9 ft Gold Crowns and Jimmy was more than happy to show you a shot if you asked. You went there to play pool not drink. In America today pool is considered a game.

2) The seven foot bar table (oddly enough always found in bars). In Europe these are rare (that's a good thing) in America they are like locust. Finding a 9-foot table in any city in America requires Dick Tracey like investigative skills. There are no incubators of fresh American pool talent since there are no real tables for them to play on.

If you doubt either of these I present the following as evidence: When Griff held the U. S. Open 10 ball at the Rio on 9-foot tables along with the bar table championships hardly any of the bar table people cared to watch the best players in the world compete against each other. Pool is poisoned in America and will never recover. Why they even play the Mosconi Cup is a mystery to me as the outcome is preordained. I look forward with great anticipation to the Efren Reyes Cup.
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Bar table pool is a cancer! It's pure rubbish, cleverly disguised as pool! I have a 7 foot table myself, though I only use it for drills. It's completely worthless to play on, even with the pockets at 4 inches. I can go to my local club any time and find very good opponents on 9 foot tight pool tables, 10 foot carom tables, snooker tables and even Chineese 8 ball tables. Everything is available and in great condition.

I never have to play for money, unless I want to. Most players will play for free and will willingly give advice if they feel qualified to do so. There are young players as well as old, some of the young players are extremely good.

I pity the young players in the US who have to play bar table pool in handicapped leagues, if they are even allowed to do so? How is it fair for them to have to compare to the young players here, who have all the equipment and opposition needed to play, at low prices, subsidised by the other club members? With coaching, by their fellow players and pro coaches alike. And my country is not even a big pool country, far from it...There are other countries that have even more favorable conditions for young, talented players.

The venue in which you play, does matter! Playing highly skilled opponents will sharpen your focus and harden your game. Playing in a setting were people are serious about their game will help you get serious yourself. There is nothing like playing in a proper pool hall, even if you practise at home, the constant matching up with your fellow player is invaluable to a players development, IMO.
 
We lose because of safety play and strategic play. Seems like we never know what to do when they push out. We pass it back and then Europe plays a good safe. They also win most of the lags, the winner of the lag probably won over 90% of the matches!
 
dnschmidt, I think you have pretty much nailed it. I hate that it is impossible to play pool these days in a place that does not serve booze. At best, we have “pool and pub” places. If you check out one of the very best new rooms (Freezer’s Ice House in Phoenix) it is half about pool and half a nightclub. Scott Frost thinks that is the modern model for a financially successful pool room. And he is probably right.

Also, 7 foot tables are omnipresent only because of money—because they are cheaper and easier to handle. Sucks that some tournaments are played on 7 foot tables because it is cheaper to set up a bunch of 7 footers for a tournament.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Bar table pool is a cancer! It's pure rubbish, cleverly disguised as pool! I have a 7 foot table myself, though I only use it for drills. It's completely worthless to play on, even with the pockets at 4 inches. I can go to my local club any time and find very good opponents on 9 foot tight pool tables, 10 foot carom tables, snooker tables and even Chineese 8 ball tables. Everything is available and in great condition.

I never have to play for money, unless I want to. Most players will play for free and will willingly give advice if they feel qualified to do so. There are young players as well as old, some of the young players are extremely good.

I pity the young players in the US who have to play bar table pool in handicapped leagues, if they are even allowed to do so? How is it fair for them to have to compare to the young players here, who have all the equipment and opposition needed to play, at low prices, subsidised by the other club members? With coaching, by their fellow players and pro coaches alike. And my country is not even a big pool country, far from it...There are other countries that have even more favorable conditions for young, talented players.

The venue in which you play, does matter! Playing highly skilled opponents will sharpen your focus and harden your game. Playing in a setting were people are serious about their game will help you get serious yourself. There is nothing like playing in a proper pool hall, even if you practise at home, the constant matching up with your fellow player is invaluable to a players development, IMO.
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This is truth. I live near a metro area of half a million folks. We have one pool room and they have four furniture grade nine foot pool tables. Drive an hour to Louisville, where the derby city classic is held annually, and you will find only two nine foot tables in that city I'm told (now that bank shots closed two weeks or so ago). I don't know if my area represents pool across the us or not, but I live in a pool desert that spans a great distance. Sad, but at least I have a nine foot diamond table in my basement...
 
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Nicksaint26, You are right too. In general, I would say that the Europeans play a more disciplined and precise game, while the Americans play a looser game. The European pool heritage seems professional while the Americans’ heritage seems to have echoes of on-the-road action matches.
 
If I had to guess, I would think the fact that most of the American players don't seem to travel to many of the biggest events is the biggest reason. The European players have a tour and many of them travel and play in a lot of world class events. They are much sharper because of it as evidenced by their safety play.

Without a national tour in the US, the top players are playing in various regional events. I understand not wanting to travel, it's very expensive with little reward. But I think it would take at least more events that drew the top 30 Americans to be consistent winners again.
 
Team USA has an open invitation to get off the bar boxes and come play on my Victory II for a month straight prior to next year's cup. It will make a difference!


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
I keep hearing hearing of the talent pool Europe has to pull from, 750 million people...

and we have a paltry 330 million. When we were winning the cup, the numbers were

similar, so why were we winning then? We all love this game, and wish it was a sport

here in the USA but it isn't. Handicapped regional tournaments and a few great open

events a year; that is not even worth it to travel to if you are a pro? And if they are, it

is a 7 foot table you play on? So why is American pool declining? My guess is just

as good as the next persons. But it isn't the talent pool.
 
morris said:
We lose because we are a single country playing against a whole continent.
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mrknight411 said:
US and Europe are about the same size.
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europe-us-overlay-map.jpg


noMoreSchon said:
I keep hearing hearing of the talent pool Europe has to pull from, 750 million people...

and we have a paltry 330 million. When we were winning the cup, the numbers were

similar, so why were we winning then? We all love this game, and wish it was a sport

here in the USA but it isn't. Handicapped regional tournaments and a few great open

events a year; that is not even worth it to travel to if you are a pro? And if they are, it

is a 7 foot table you play on? So why is American pool declining? My guess is just

as good as the next persons. But it isn't the talent pool.
Click to expand...

The Philippines has about a third the population as the USA, and have produced more world class talent than we have over the last 20+ years. So you are correct, it isnt the 'talent pool' numbers holding us back. :smilewinkgrin:
 
LWD said:
dnschmidt, I think you have pretty much nailed it. I hate that it is impossible to play pool these days in a place that does not serve booze. At best, we have “pool and pub” places. If you check out one of the very best new rooms (Freezer’s Ice House in Phoenix) it is half about pool and half a nightclub. Scott Frost thinks that is the modern model for a financially successful pool room. And he is probably right.

Also, 7 foot tables are omnipresent only because of money—because they are cheaper and easier to handle. Sucks that some tournaments are played on 7 foot tables because it is cheaper to set up a bunch of 7 footers for a tournament.
Click to expand...

Is there a single pool hall in Europe that doesn't serve alcohol?

It would struggle to stay open for long if there is, so I don't think thats the issue!

But yes, 7 foot tables seem to be rare over here.
 
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