The "Skinny"

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
The Lynx

I noticed this when I watched (in person) the last SVB - Reyes TAR match. When Efren is really focused on a shot he looks like a Lynx. His eyebrows curl up from the outer edges. In the beginning of day one he was all Lynx and lost any way. As the days rolled on the Lynx appeared less and less. Age effects everyone differently and his time has come. Thankfully for Efren on the last day SVB had a lapse of concentration and the old guy got away with stealing the One Pocket.

Exhibit A: Picture of Efren during IPT days in full Lynx mode. During this match the Lynx is dead.
 

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wincardona

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe that I said that Reyes won 6 DCC onepocket championships in a race to 3 with fields of 300 to 400 players. If not then i'm saying it now.

Billy Incardona
 

GideonF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe that I said that Reyes won 6 DCC onepocket championships in a race to 3 with fields of 300 to 400 players. If not then i'm saying it now.

Billy Incardona

You did say it, Billy. The post above was correcting someone else who said 3.
 

bad_hit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Hey who the heck is this Cesar Morales guy? He can really play!"

Definitely the best ever, and it ain't even close.
 

WildWing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One pocket, agree. Some said best in all games. Perhaps a little perspective. In straight pool, there were Greanleaf, Mosconi, Mizerak, Sigel, and.others with more tournament records. Nine ball, over the years, I still have a hard time arguing that Earl wasn't the best. Opinions vary.

All the best,
WW
 

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
.....My point is that a man 62 years of age is trying to compete against one of the best in the world playing a game that requires top skills, strong nerves, and stamina, and play at a level that very few can, even in their prime. There's a huge difference when playing a race to 3 or 4 or 5, as opposed to 30, especially if you're 62 years of age..think about it. Lets not judge Reyes off of this performance, instead lets applaud his courage and celebrate that he was the greatest ever and still battling at the age of 62.

Bill Incardona

I certainly agree with everything you said Bill..Our main bone of contention has been what you admitted in the above sentence I emboldened!..Short sets will never take the place of lengthy gambling match-ups, in determining the best 1P player!.. I have always had the utmost respect for all of Efren's accomplishments, and his courage, as he nears the end of his career.

Your intelligent observations come from years in the trenches, and a true love for the game..I would hope you feel the same about me!..Our minor discord is just that, very minor!..We seem to have a few self-proclaimed experts, (like Watchez) who like to stir the pot, by trying to impress people, but only show how little they really know about competitive pool, at its highest level!

Let me propose a truce..I'll give you Effie being the best one pocket player ever, if you'll just admit that he didn't get there by 'knowing the game' all that well!.. Hows that for a good way to end all this silly jangling? :thumbup:

Still your friend (I hope)

Dick
 
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TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Gold Member
Silver Member
I hate to see Efren's game decline. What I hate the most is to see the look of frustration and disappointment on his face. He looks tired and beaten. He has so much heart and is such a legendary pool player, but every reign must end some time.

Anybody who doesn't think Efren is one of the greatest players of all time including greatest one pocket players ever - is simply uninformed.

Not to take anything away from Scott - he is playing amazingly well.
 

GreenFeltguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great post Billy

The Skinny was Earl Heisler's favorite saying, haven't heard it since he died. Agree Efren best player ever and still capable of great play but playing tired as we all have done on occasion. He will be back, got a champion's heart !!!!
 

Skratch

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Skinny was Earl Heisler's favorite saying, haven't heard it since he died. Agree Efren best player ever and still capable of great play but playing tired as we all have done on occasion. He will be back, got a champion's heart !!!!

With the current format he should still win a couple more 1P titles. The difference I see in his game is the consistency. We all know he's got the stroke, the wisdom, the inventiveness, but he lacks the one thing that all the current Pros have, Consistency. I'm sure he's still focused, but time has worn him down. I hate to say it, I think he should retire. Teach instead. Bring up the next generation of great players, and pass along what he knows. He's already in the HOF. Who can match his numerous titles, and records? What I'm getting at is what is there left for him to do in the sport? What does he have left to prove? He's already in the hearts and minds of today's players as the greatest if not one of them. We are lucky to have seen him play, and have it recorded for everyone to see his skills. ....With all this said....Thank you Efren!
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
You can dice it, slice it, and chopp it, but at the end it will still come out as what it is.:wink: Reyes was and should be regarded as the best one pocket player that has ever played the game, period. Not only does his practically unblemished record insinuate that, his record against all the champions that he has played in the gambling arena also implies the same
.plus he spotted all of them, he just didn't beat them playing even he spotted all of them. For us to judge the greatness of Reyes off of this performance is simply plain stupid, short sighted, and frankly DISRESPECTFUL. (Pardon my spelling errors,thank you)


Lets move to the situation and look at it for what it actually is. To compete at the game of onepocket at the highest level requires top skills, strong nerves, and stamina which Reyes falls short in all those areas, remember i'm speaking about competing at the highest level. Imo playing onepocket at the highest level is the toughest test for a player in comparrison to playing any other game played on a pool table. There is more stress on a player playing onepocket at this level because you must come with borderline tough shots to win games, stay in games, and steal games, and i'm speaking on a regular basis. If you watch onepocket closely played at the highest level you will see that the players are routinely shooting shots that carry immense pressure, shots that if they're missed could easily cost you the game, a game that you have possibly invested sometimes 20 to 30 minutes in mentally and physically battling to get the win. Think about it. Playing 9ball or 10ball games last maybe two or three minutes, it's easy to repair an error playing those games, not true playing onepocket.

Reyes is at least 61 years old, probably 62. I say this because his good friend and traveling partner Rolondo Vicente mentioned his age (62) in the elevator yesterday as we were going back to our rooms. My point is that a man 62 years of age is trying to compete against one of the best in the world playing a game that requires top skills, strong nerves, and stamina, and play at a level that very few can, even in their prime. There's a huge difference when playing a race to 3 or 4 or 5, as opposed to 30, especially if you're 62 years of age..think about it.

Lets not judge Reyes off of this performance, instead lets applaud his courage and celebrate that he was the greatest ever and still battling at the age of 62.

Bill Incardona

Tap Tap Tap.

From your tape, after naming a bunch of great players and one major thing you learned from each of them you said, "Efren Reyes, I learned not to play him"

Your insight and wisdom is always welcome and deeply appreciated. One Pocket is clearly the deepest pool game. If I learned anything from my "big" match it's that San Jose Dick was right....you can almost never learn all the moves and shots you need to know because the ones you practice today might not come up for months in one pocket. I was fortunate enough to get some good advice that elevated my one pocket game a lot but also informed me of the vast amount I don't know.

So when I see Efren still competitive at his age and we contrast it with how good he actually is now.....i.e. it STILL takes the very best to beat him....with how unbelievably good he played in comparison to the best in his age bracket in their primes......it's clear to me that this is indeed a TRUE case of watching a man who has forgotten more about one pocket than I will ever know.

To that I will leave you with this;

My friend's uncle is busy converting a bunch of our old AccuStats tapes to DVD since none of us know how to operate a VCR anymore . He knows nothing about pool. But he literally has to watch every match to check the quality of the conversion.

A few months ago he brought a few dvds in and said, "one thing I have noticed while watching these matches is that this Efren Reyes is an above average player."
 

ibuycues

I Love Box Cues
Gold Member
Silver Member
One pocket, agree. Some said best in all games. Perhaps a little perspective. In straight pool, there were Greanleaf, Mosconi, Mizerak, Sigel, and.others with more tournament records. Nine ball, over the years, I still have a hard time arguing that Earl wasn't the best. Opinions vary.

All the best,
WW


Nice post. Spot on. (Might add Nick Varner to the mix.)
Will Prout
 

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
......Bill, your insight and wisdom is always welcome and deeply appreciated. One Pocket is clearly the deepest pool game. If I learned anything from my "big" match it's that San Jose Dick was right....you can almost never learn all the moves and shots you need to know because the ones you practice today might not come up for months in one pocket. I was fortunate enough to get some good advice that elevated my one pocket game a lot but also informed me of the vast amount I don't know......

Thanks for the plug John..The other thing you should have learned from me, is practicing is the greatest time waster ever invented!..Staying in action, (even if you make an occasional bad game) is how you really improve your skill at anything!..Hope to see you and Lou hook up again..I see you are trying your best to get it on!

Good Luck! :wink:

PS..I think Lou is pissed at me, because I warned him not to bet on Efren..I was one game off...
I predicted well before they played, that Effie would not get to 16 games! :rolleyes:
 
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JAM

Professional Railbird
Silver Member
Great thread and so true. BTW, Efren will be 62 on August 26th, next month. We're basically the same age. :embarrassed2:

My other half watched Tony Chohan playing recently on a live stream in California and said Tony is moving the balls effortlessly and better than he's ever seen Tony play. In fact, he said Tony might just be the best one-hole player in the world right now based on his California performance.

A good match-up for sure would be Scott and Tony down the road. :cool:
 

wincardona

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I certainly agree with everything you said Bill..Our main bone of contention has been what you admitted in the above sentence I emboldened!..Short sets will never take the place of lengthy gambling match-ups, in determining the best 1P player!.. I have always had the utmost respect for all of Efren's accomplishments, and his courage, as he nears the end of his career.

Your intelligent observations come from years in the trenches, and a true love for the game..I would hope you feel the same about me!..Our minor discord is just that, very minor!..We seem to have a few self-proclaimed experts, (like Watchez) who like to stir the pot, by trying to impress people, but only show how little they really know about competitive pool, at its highest level!

Let me propose a truce..I'll give you Effie being the best one pocket player ever, if you'll just admit that he didn't get there by 'knowing the game' all that well!.. Hows that for a good way to end all this silly jangling? :thumbup:

Still your friend (I hope)

Dick
Dick, of course i'm still your friend i'm not going to allow your short sighteness (is that a correct spelling?) get in the way of our friendship, unless you're really serious about Efren not being the greatest, whi h he clearly is
.imo..

When I said however you slice it, dice it, and chopp it, it's still going to come out for what it is. There's no denying that his accomplishments in the game of onepocket stands alone above all others both in the tournament and gambling arena's and that must be respected. If we can't use that as the true barometer to judge this debate off of then I have nothing else to add to this debate, we are at an impasse.

Oh, by the way, thank you for your graciousness, my friend.

Bill Incardona
 

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dick, of course i'm still your friend i'm not going to allow your short sighteness (is that a correct spelling?) get in the way of our friendship, unless you're really serious about Efren not being the greatest, which he clearly is. imo

When I said however you slice it, dice it, and chopp it, it's still going to come out for what it is. There's no denying that his accomplishments in the game of onepocket stands alone above all others both in the tournament and gambling arena's and that must be respected. If we can't use that as the true barometer to judge this debate off of then I have nothing else to add to this debate, we are at an impasse.

Oh, by the way, thank you for your graciousness, my friend.

Bill Incardona

Fair enough Billy!..But you must admit, I know a thing or two about getting old!....It sucks! :(
..I guess I think of Efren, as still a young pup!

(BTW, you misspelled 'chop'..only one 'p')..:D :D :D
 
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336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Gold Member
Silver Member
The Greatest Representative of the Sport

If you hadn't said any of what you did, all of it would still be true and on top of all of that, the guy is best representative in professionalism and friendliness to the player that the sport has probably ever had.

To be able to sit down with a guy like that and talk to him just about anything would be so great, wouldn't have to be about pool, he just seems a real human being. That's the kind of person that makes a true hero. What a guy.


You can dice it, slice it, and chopp it, but at the end it will still come out as what it is.:wink: Reyes was and should be regarded as the best one pocket player that has ever played the game, period. Not only does his practically unblemished record insinuate that, his record against all the champions that he has played in the gambling arena also implies the same
.plus he spotted all of them, he just didn't beat them playing even he spotted all of them. For us to judge the greatness of Reyes off of this performance is simply plain stupid, short sighted, and frankly DISRESPECTFUL. (Pardon my spelling errors,thank you)


Lets move to the situation and look at it for what it actually is. To compete at the game of onepocket at the highest level requires top skills, strong nerves, and stamina which Reyes falls short in all those areas, remember i'm speaking about competing at the highest level. Imo playing onepocket at the highest level is the toughest test for a player in comparrison to playing any other game played on a pool table. There is more stress on a player playing onepocket at this level because you must come with borderline tough shots to win games, stay in games, and steal games, and i'm speaking on a regular basis. If you watch onepocket closely played at the highest level you will see that the players are routinely shooting shots that carry immense pressure, shots that if they're missed could easily cost you the game, a game that you have possibly invested sometimes 20 to 30 minutes in mentally and physically battling to get the win. Think about it. Playing 9ball or 10ball games last maybe two or three minutes, it's easy to repair an error playing those games, not true playing onepocket.

Reyes is at least 61 years old, probably 62. I say this because his good friend and traveling partner Rolondo Vicente mentioned his age (62) in the elevator yesterday as we were going back to our rooms. My point is that a man 62 years of age is trying to compete against one of the best in the world playing a game that requires top skills, strong nerves, and stamina, and play at a level that very few can, even in their prime. There's a huge difference when playing a race to 3 or 4 or 5, as opposed to 30, especially if you're 62 years of age..think about it.

Lets not judge Reyes off of this performance, instead lets applaud his courage and celebrate that he was the greatest ever and still battling at the age of 62.

Bill Incardona
 

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you hadn't said any of what you did, all of it would still be true and on top of all of that, the guy is best representative in professionalism and friendliness to the player that the sport has probably ever had.

To be able to sit down with a guy like that and talk to him just about anything would be so great, wouldn't have to be about pool, he just seems a real human being. That's the kind of person that makes a true hero. What a guy.

Very well said Robin..He is definitely a great human being..If he were so inclined, he could be president of the Philipines..He is loved and respected over there, even more than here!..Probably because they don't play much one pocket in the PI..;) ;) ;)..(JK Bill)
 
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JAM

Professional Railbird
Silver Member
Fair enough Billy!..But you must admit, I know a thing or two about getting old!....It sucks!
..I guess I think of Efren, as still a young pup!

(BTW, you misspelled 'chop'..only one 'p')

Well, if we're going to point out errors, you use the double quote when quoting words, not single quote, unless you're in England. Americans use the double quote. :D

As well, always insert a comma before a direct address. It should be "Fair enough, Billy." A comma should be inserted after "enough" and before "Billy." :wink:

In your other recent post, Philippines had two p's, just so you know. :grin-square:

I usually ignore the errors on posts on a pool forum, even though they really stick out like a sore thumb to my eye. If somebody brings up spelling, though, I put my proofreader hat on. :eek::grin::eek:;):)
 

JAM

Professional Railbird
Silver Member
Very well said Robin..He is definitely a great human being..If he were so inclined, he could be president of the Philipines..He is loved and respected over there, even more than here!..Probably because they don't play much one pocket in the PI..;) ;) ;)..(JK Bill)

And please refrain from all the ellipses. It's goofy to use so many ellipses in normal colloquy. An ellipsis should be used to indicate missing text in a quote or a trailing-off of the spoken word.
 
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