The smaller pockets are helping the weak players, its very deep and people don't see it.

[Fore Rail]

No you're missing the point too, I can't believe this...I'm in fact shocked.

Nah dude you are living in a "maybe" fantasy land.

You played Heyball before? I watched Corey Deuel win the Heyball Championship in Quincy Illinois. I really don't know how he did it with those tight pockets. All the lesser players should have had more of a chance right?

 

[straightline]

Good troll though. Got the riot effect seeded.

 

[SEB]

What i'm amazed at is the depth of the bullshit being slung here. Going from 9-2 drubbing to coin toss by making pockets smaller is ludicrous. A local place replaced bucket Valley's with ProCut 4.5" Diamonds. It has NOT changed the outcome of ANY tournament they've had. In fact the better players are beating them even worse now. And you can drop all this 'you have to think deeply' bullshit. Anyone with half a brain can see this nonsense for what it is. Bye.

If I can’t get out, I can’t get out. Pockets are too tight for me. It makes it a coin flip against any competent player…even if they’re 50 points lower than me.

Guys…what level do you play at here??? I’m not talking about the difference between a 550 and a 500. I’m talking about the difference between players who both have run out power.

It’s the same reason SVB lost to that solid amateur at Hard Times…ever watch the Post Up stream at that place??? Nobody really wins their matches there…it’s whoever doesn’t just give it away. Whoever does the best job of not hanging a 7,8, or 9 ball wins their match. Those pockets are so tight it’s unplayable.

Tony Chohan was taking SVB’s money on a simple draw shot prop bet.

And you guys still think the best player wins these matches with the pockets being this tight????

 

[straightline]

All the nays are on the high/low of it. Say they keep track of ball count, the high player may leave more crumbs and gravy for the low player. If the low player is just a couple ticks behind the high player, there ya go...

 

[smiling_Hans]

If I can’t get out, I can’t get out. Pockets are too tight for me. It makes it a coin flip against any competent player…even if they’re 50 points lower than me.

Guys…what level do you play at here??? I’m not talking about the difference between a 550 and a 500. I’m talking about the difference between players who both have run out power.

It’s the same reason SVB lost to that solid amateur at Hard Times…ever watch the Post Up stream at that place??? Nobody really wins their matches there…it’s whoever doesn’t just give it away. Whoever does the best job of not hanging a 7,8, or 9 ball wins their match. Those pockets are so tight it’s unplayable.

Tony Chohan was taking SVB’s money on a simple draw shot prop bet.

And you guys still think the best player wins these matches with the pockets being this tight????

My pool hall is 4.25 or tighter. The tables get decreasingly smaller as you move towards one part of the pool room. I play on the first table the most and others on tournament nights.

I have lost many matches where I hung up the 8 and 9 and so have my opponents.

I definitely agree the smaller pockets causes you to try and not lose a game rather than winning it.

Just last week an opponent hung the 8 and 9 on the same pocket. I made the 8 and my next shot I hung it on the corner for him too.

On tight pockets I learned not to put English in certain cut shots. It will always rattle. Never goes in.

I’m at the point where I don’t think about it anymore and just play as if the pockets are normal. I’m use to it. It’s when I go to other rooms I realize how small my tables are.

 

[straightline]

One thing all players should watch for is players that habitually hit certain shots on the bias - meaning biased away from perpendicular to the actual aperture. Used to be in snooker many players could not or would not hit dead center pocket; instead favoring habitual biases. This doesn't happen so much any more but it happens - especially with pool. They might parallel one jaw or the other using that half of the pocket. This always looks like carelessness to me but that's me.

OR they might add or subtract a few degrees from perpendicular center aperture. These "errors" will probably hang on 4 and sub 4 pockets. Couple sneaky things to try:

Leave 'em long and slow
Leave 'em long and off angle

That's standard grind but the point is underdog doesn't mean cripple.

 

[skogstokig]

OP should go to brazil and play sinuca.

 

[smiling_Hans]

Cheating the pocket is a separate subject matter that doesn’t pertain to small pockets. Cheating a pocket is a situational strategy of the game. It’s not a main focus for it to be brought up when speaking of tight pockets. It is the equivalent to a bunt in baseball. It happens but it’s not an a regular part of the game.

The game is about pocketing balls and what better way is to aim down the center. Even when we make a shot it’s not going in dead center.

The idea of cheating every shot on purpose is false. It’s done depending on the situation.

You have a better chance of getting to the next ball with more margin of error with shape than cheating a pocket with less margin of error and also expecting to get shape.

 

[straightline]

Cheating the pocket is a separate subject matter that doesn’t pertain to small pockets. Cheating a pocket is a situational strategy of the game. It’s not a main focus for it to be brought up when speaking of tight pockets. It is the equivalent to a bunt in baseball. It happens but it’s not an a regular part of the game.

The game is about pocketing balls and what better way is to aim down the center. Even when we make a shot it’s not going in dead center.

The idea of cheating every shot on purpose is false. It’s done depending on the situation.

You have a better chance of getting to the next ball with more margin of error with shape than cheating a pocket with less margin of error and also expecting to get shape.

I'm not referring to cheating the pocket for position; not even deliberately. Some people just have habitual defaults, even if they're visually lined up rock, OB, pocket. You see spot shots go but usually on a bias of some kind and not always a favorable one even though the ball goes. It's a double edged sword for both favorite and underdog.

 

[maha]

cheating the pocket for position is part of the game and always was. and as pockets get tighter you have to do it less.

and as pocket gets tighter many of the same shots you shoot are not considered make able for you anymore or where you can get position from. so on those you have to play safe.
or play different position beforehand so you dont get in that spot.

if you cant adjust to changing conditions you lose out.

 

[bbb]

I've said this years ago, probably the first time they introduced the smaller pockets into pool, then I've said it again in another post here a year or months ago I can't remember.

Now I'll say it again. The introduction of smaller pockets in pool is not good for the sport, it removes SPORT DOMINANCE where you have 2-3 players who can dominate because of their skill. This is absolutely removed and lifted and now its all about who gets the better rolls, literally.

People often don't think deeply about this because they think in a simple manner which would go something like this "Smaller pocket, means player must focus to pot balls, ergo better player wins" and this is veery very far from the truth. In fact smaller pockets will often yields to the winning of the weaker player and most of the time it is randomize. A better player can win if he gets the better end of things but its mostly up to the pool gods now.

We know in all circumstances that the pool gods play a huge part in pool even with larger pockets, but imagine that now with smaller pockets you added like 10x in the hands of pool gods. This is not good cause it will result in more randomness and what I said here you can literally see it in the pool brackets & results, literally I remembeer that one filipino guy who has fargo of 700 or even lower won a major event few months ago in this same small pocket situation, it wasn't like he got really good all of a sudden, but the randomness & rolls helped it because of those small pockets.

I still haven't explained how smaller pockets will add more randomness & luck, but ill leave you think about it deeply then ill post again to elaborate & explain whats happening....cause I don't want this one post to be long.

Just look for results, here's the thing...I am not a pro but if you ever asked me to play against jushua or shane etc, I will ask them to play me in a small pocket & ask for short race i.e. race to 2 or 3 - this will give me the highest chance of beating them. Just think about this

 

[ShootingArts]

they wont have the edge you're missing the point, but their chance of beating you has increased, significantly.

What is amazing is how far you can run starting with one wrong premise, that the better player's game will be hurt more than the lesser player's game.

Just an example, "missing on the pro side" is a very common term. What that means is aiming where if you miss they are most likely to have no play on the ball.

The better player is going to play smarter than the lesser player. No matter the conditions, the better player has a deeper pocket of reserves.

Hu

 

[oscargrouch]

Those V.B. Diamonds played nearly like G.C.s when the cloth was new, and cheating corner shots wouldn’t bobble unless hit too hard. Once the cloth is well broken in though, all bets are likely off. Go figure. G.C.s covered in 760 back in the 90s seemed to play consistently throughout.

Another MR fail is that they can't work with Simonis (or someone) to get new cloth that doesn't play "new." Unless they want it that way...

 

[Bob Jewett]

... The better player is going to play smarter than the lesser player. No matter the conditions, the better player has a deeper pocket of reserves. ...

Yup.

I think there might be an effect for much easier tables. Suppose the table is somehow so easy that everyone can run out. Then the better player is in trouble because Joe Mooch is putting five-packs on him.

Another way to look at it is that on a tough table, there will be more turns at the table for both players and more opportunities for the better player to show his superiority. In effect, it is a longer match and a longer match always favors the better player. If this hypothesis is true, then @smoochie is really, really wrong.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Another MR fail is that they can't work with Simonis (or someone) to get new cloth that doesn't play "new." Unless they want it that way...

Pro tournaments have had new cloth with some slide forever. I don't see that as any kind of problem peculiar to MR. I think it gives the top players an edge as they see those conditions a lot while the typical room player hasn't seen new cloth in a year.

 

[SSP]

I've said this years ago, probably the first time they introduced the smaller pockets into pool, then I've said it again in another post here a year or months ago I can't remember.

Now I'll say it again. The introduction of smaller pockets in pool is not good for the sport, it removes SPORT DOMINANCE where you have 2-3 players who can dominate because of their skill. This is absolutely removed and lifted and now its all about who gets the better rolls, literally.

People often don't think deeply about this because they think in a simple manner which would go something like this "Smaller pocket, means player must focus to pot balls, ergo better player wins" and this is veery very far from the truth. In fact smaller pockets will often yields to the winning of the weaker player and most of the time it is randomize. A better player can win if he gets the better end of things but its mostly up to the pool gods now.

We know in all circumstances that the pool gods play a huge part in pool even with larger pockets, but imagine that now with smaller pockets you added like 10x in the hands of pool gods. This is not good cause it will result in more randomness and what I said here you can literally see it in the pool brackets & results, literally I remembeer that one filipino guy who has fargo of 700 or even lower won a major event few months ago in this same small pocket situation, it wasn't like he got really good all of a sudden, but the randomness & rolls helped it because of those small pockets.

I still haven't explained how smaller pockets will add more randomness & luck, but ill leave you think about it deeply then ill post again to elaborate & explain whats happening....cause I don't want this one post to be long.

Just look for results, here's the thing...I am not a pro but if you ever asked me to play against jushua or shane etc, I will ask them to play me in a small pocket & ask for short race i.e. race to 2 or 3 - this will give me the highest chance of beating them. Just think about this

I agree small pockets are ruining the game but I don't think they favor weaker players, IMHO better players cheat the pocket and are able to take advantage of that extra space, weaker players may make a few more shots but don't have the cue ball control of better players, better players are now choosing to play more safeties making for longer safety battle games, I don't think Efern even tries that double bank shot on a table with tight pockets, I think 4 1/4" with a 48 degree angle should be the standard pocket size.

 

[jsp]

Another way to look at it is that on a tough table, there will be more turns at the table for both players and more opportunities for the better player to show his superiority. In effect, it is a longer match and a longer match always favors the better player. If this hypothesis is true, then @smoochie is really, really wrong.

I think what many are forgetting is that we're talking about the game of 9-ball. It is very possible to win a match while pocketing the least amount of total balls and/or spending the fewest overall time at the table.

I think there is an argument that a tougher table could actually increase the luck factor...simply because tighter pockets will result in more misses for both players. And when you do miss, does your opponent have an easy shot (especially concerning the last 2-3 balls)? That is where luck creeps in.

Yes...luck goes both ways, but if you're the superior player you want the luck factor to approach zero. As the superior player, luck on your side can help you beat an inferior player by an even greater of margin than normal. But luck NOT on your side can make the inferior player that much closer to being able to beat you.

 

[smoochie]

If I can’t get out, I can’t get out. Pockets are too tight for me. It makes it a coin flip against any competent player…even if they’re 50 points lower than me.

Guys…what level do you play at here??? I’m not talking about the difference between a 550 and a 500. I’m talking about the difference between players who both have run out power.

It’s the same reason SVB lost to that solid amateur at Hard Times…ever watch the Post Up stream at that place??? Nobody really wins their matches there…it’s whoever doesn’t just give it away. Whoever does the best job of not hanging a 7,8, or 9 ball wins their match. Those pockets are so tight it’s unplayable.

Tony Chohan was taking SVB’s money on a simple draw shot prop bet.

And you guys still think the best player wins these matches with the pockets being this tight????

This guy also understands, I'm here not talking about a hillybilly versus a pro. I'm talking about the disadvantage a TOP 5 players are getting versus another pro that isnt as good as them. sooner or later you guys will start seeing it, its new i'll give you more time to see statistics and results. THEN you'll get it.

The thing you must pay attention to is this, when a player misses isnt the important part, its WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE MISS? this is a huge problem in pool because it adds to the randomness of the game, we already have to deal with the layout randomness after the break, now we gotta also deal with "Hey he misses, what will happen now do I get a easy ball or will it become a GODLY SAFE by CHANCE" thats a big big problem and who will benefit more from this? Its the weaker pro player because he wont be ran over with 6pack.

I know its hard to digest this and people still are laughing at me, but I dont care....results will speak for itself sooner than later.

 

[smoochie]

Think of it like this alright.

The weaker PRO (Not bad player he runs out but I'm talking about the non top 20 players, these guys are good enough but not as good as Fedor/SVB/Jushua etc):

These guys will miss shots on big pockets due to fundemental or whatever, as well will miss shots on smaller pockets.

The TOP crusader players (TOP 10 or TOP 5, the likes of Efren/Earl in the 90s, and the likes of Fedor/SVB/Jushua NOW)

These guys will run packs on big pockets, if they get momentum they destroy.... however in smaller pockets they will miss shots similarly than the weaker PRO.

Now, I ask you who's got the advantage moving to smaller pockets? Please think hard about this....because here's the point I'm trying to get to you

If weak pro's miss on smaller pockets and TOP crusader pro's miss on smaller pockets now we're at the game of "WHAT WILL HAPPEN AFTER THE MISS" and lets not go to the 2way shot because you and I both know that pro's have the mindset of running out. Now as I said if both miss on smaller pockets, and we're at the hand of POOL GODS due the question I keep asking "Where the balls will land after the miss" if the weaker player gets the good end of the story here, in a race to 9 and they get 3-4 games due to this, THATS IT, the game is done. your Crusader PRO player the likes of SVB will not win simply put, he literally lost to a weaker pro player due to these smaller pockets.

Look guys, the next time you watch a tournament on these smaller pockets and when a Crusader PRO misses or a Weaker PRO misses, dont think about the miss (as most of you do), LOOK AT THE CUEBALL AND OBJECT BALL and say "Smoochie said lets look what happens next" because thats the most chaotic part of pool and people don't realize it, if most of these stories helped the weaker pro then he'll win.....sometimes it lands safe, sometimes in the pocket jaw, sometimes a long difficult shot which can result in a help of the opposite player because then the long shot will be executed badly and missed but right after this you gona have to ask again "WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE MISS" until one lucky guy gets it easy inside of a pocket just Chua got on the 9ball against SVB.

Literally saw a match where both players kept missing and all its in my head is that "Oh whoever will get the final easy roll will win" and my thinking was correct, at the end after couple of misses Chua got the easy nine ball into the side pocket with a stop shot, is that skill? No, its just pool god decided this.

Listen you can argue all you want about "why didnt he play safe if its hard" and etc, but these crusader pro's can make shots, but not always on these pockets which will result in the infamous question I kept bringing you "What will happen after the miss, am I gona park the ball easy to my opponent by luck or is it gona be safe" this is crazy that you guys dont see this.

In fact most of you have lived this while playing pool in the poolhall, most of you missed tons of shots and never realize that the most important thing is WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE MISS, the thing about this is most of you will see it when it happens against you....but never feel bad or gutted when it happens FOR YOU...meanwhile I myself see the complete picture, for me and against me.

So going back to the original default pockets 4.5 inch or 5 inch, this will happen yes, but MUUUUCH LESS....and the CRUSADER Pro's will run the normal pro's over, thats the whole point.....then we have dominance the likes of which we seen with Earl in the 90s and Efren the 95's and start of 2000, also the likes of which we seen with the almighty Mike Sigel.......

In fact if you brought back Earl in his prime, and Efren in his prime....they won't dominate, they literally will be a victim of "Hey my opponent miss, what will happen after ths miss.....or the other way around, HEY I MISSED, i hope it gets safe"

its a big problem guys.

 

[smoochie]

What is amazing is how far you can run starting with one wrong premise, that the better player's game will be hurt more than the lesser player's game.

Just an example, "missing on the pro side" is a very common term. What that means is aiming where if you miss they are most likely to have no play on the ball.

The better player is going to play smarter than the lesser player. No matter the conditions, the better player has a deeper pocket of reserves.

Hu

I know what missing on the pro side thank you, but you can't always use this because they're not you nor I...these are pro's who only have one thing in their heads, running out....plus you can't even use this all the time, as well as you use it on difficult long cut shots but hey....I know its very difficult to see what I am talking about but I kept posting about this for a year now, and ill keep reminding you until you see it....one day most of you will trust me.