I hear ya, but suspect the OP is not likely to enter tournaments. Maybe I'm wrong, it would be interesting to follow a name in a large well attended tournament.
Dave
The state of pool in the U.S. A 'Rip Van Winkle' view.
- Thread starter jbart65
- Start date
Dave
See my response to easy-e.
The OP - that's me - probably should have said, "up to 80%." Or just omitted a number entirely given the offense I have caused. Heck, I should just revise the line now, but then I'd be accused of being a "Revanchist." Or something.
And no, I am not likely to enter any large, well attended tournament. Me, being an "average pool player" for now, I'll just live vicariously thru Rollie Williams and his successors!
Don't be so sensitive. I don't think you've offended anyone. It's just difficult sometimes to hear people on here make claims like the one you did and not challenge them on it. It's like when people claim they beat the ghost at some ridiculously high rate. Average pool players don't "know all the diamond systems" or hit "80% of their banks". If you'd have said it like "I study the diamond systems and my banks are improving by a lot", no one would question anything.
I am, uh, joking!
You are right, though. I exaggerated. What I should have said is that I've studied the diamond systems and my banks are improving by a lot.
As for the ghost, I am too frightened to contemplate how many times I would lose. I am not ... banking on that changing anytime soon.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
That's just me. It takes a while for stuff to sink in.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
I think sometimes it's just a matter of people (particularly young people) not ready to learn. When I was 12 or 13 this man pictured below attempted to teach how to play position and not just blast every shot. I needed to get little older to realize what he was the value of what he was saying. Some of you old timers will remember this guy,,,
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Ha! No kidding. I’ve watched some videos three, four, five times. The game is so simple yet delightfully complex. What Churchill said about the old USSR could apply. Pool is "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
Why, thank you! I‘ve actually been reading AZB regularly for about three years. My application got hung up way back when and I couldn’t post. Then for some odd reason I sent a message to an administrator a few weeks ago to unfreeze my application and my account started working.
Good pool players are some of the most interesting people I meet. A number are rather prickly too. I don't know why.
Whatever the case, i just love the game. Loved it since I was a little kid watching Willie and Fats on Wide World of Sports. Just glad after all these years that I have a table of my own now and can play as long as I want.
I have a lot of catching up to do and no time to waste!
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I guess part of the reason I am hesitant to play many systems is the fact that when I used to play before taking about 12 years off I knew almost everything. 
I read all the books, did DeadAim's kicking academy etc. Studied 3 rail billiards books. Studied books on strategy. I could calculate a 2 rail bank 4 different ways with different numbering on the rails and such. I had an absolute crap load of info in my head. I read the books and poured over them on breaks at work (pre smart phone days). I studied them and quizzed myself, like interanally I knew it. I lived and breathed pool but only could "play" (be at the hall) about 8 hours a week. I may have only been on the table 4 hours a week.
With all this info I sucked majorly. I could not pot more than 2-3 balls in a row. All games devolved into safety battles and without 3 foul I might have to get BIH 6 times or more to win a game of 8 ball. My safe game was on point and I could almost literally not be put anywhere on the table I couldn't get at least a hit on the ball. I could torture someone, a single game of 8 ball might take 20 minutes.
I still lost so much, just absolutely awful. But by damn did I know all sorts of stuff. A dozen ways to aim, mirror systems, gearing systems, wagon wheel/clock faces, diamonds, sid systems, etc.
When I started back I started focusing hard on fundamentals mainly thanks to a buddy who coached me some, and focused on actually making shots. It's amazing how much you can win with shot making and an empty head. Once you get this and the CB to listen you are on your way. The subconscious takes care of the "light work" of calculations. If you focus and intently watch what the ball does off of a rail you begin to make adjustments without much conscious effort. It's great to learn things but you gotta practice it out until it becomes rote or routine. Telling an APA 3 how to do 2 rail bank systems and 3 rail kicks isn't the most glaring fix for their game. Most league players are at this level. If they don't first fix the 12" hole in their rowboat fixing the 1" hole won't matter much. They are still sunk. I'm not an instructor but I'm guessing most good instructors will tailor lessons and try to fix the most glaring holes before teaching multi rail kick route calculations.
Most people would do much better off learning fundamentals and to stay down and actually take in what's happening rather than learn exotic systems. Plus they very seldom put in enough work to make the systems stick in their head. Giving a drowning man an asprin isn't much help, better to throw a life preserver ring.
I read all the books, did DeadAim's kicking academy etc. Studied 3 rail billiards books. Studied books on strategy. I could calculate a 2 rail bank 4 different ways with different numbering on the rails and such. I had an absolute crap load of info in my head. I read the books and poured over them on breaks at work (pre smart phone days). I studied them and quizzed myself, like interanally I knew it. I lived and breathed pool but only could "play" (be at the hall) about 8 hours a week. I may have only been on the table 4 hours a week.With all this info I sucked majorly. I could not pot more than 2-3 balls in a row. All games devolved into safety battles and without 3 foul I might have to get BIH 6 times or more to win a game of 8 ball. My safe game was on point and I could almost literally not be put anywhere on the table I couldn't get at least a hit on the ball. I could torture someone, a single game of 8 ball might take 20 minutes.
I still lost so much, just absolutely awful. But by damn did I know all sorts of stuff. A dozen ways to aim, mirror systems, gearing systems, wagon wheel/clock faces, diamonds, sid systems, etc.
When I started back I started focusing hard on fundamentals mainly thanks to a buddy who coached me some, and focused on actually making shots. It's amazing how much you can win with shot making and an empty head. Once you get this and the CB to listen you are on your way. The subconscious takes care of the "light work" of calculations. If you focus and intently watch what the ball does off of a rail you begin to make adjustments without much conscious effort. It's great to learn things but you gotta practice it out until it becomes rote or routine. Telling an APA 3 how to do 2 rail bank systems and 3 rail kicks isn't the most glaring fix for their game. Most league players are at this level. If they don't first fix the 12" hole in their rowboat fixing the 1" hole won't matter much. They are still sunk. I'm not an instructor but I'm guessing most good instructors will tailor lessons and try to fix the most glaring holes before teaching multi rail kick route calculations.
Most people would do much better off learning fundamentals and to stay down and actually take in what's happening rather than learn exotic systems. Plus they very seldom put in enough work to make the systems stick in their head. Giving a drowning man an asprin isn't much help, better to throw a life preserver ring.
All very good points, Boogieman. I do have too much information in my head, I admit.
I am a fast learner, however, and things tend to stick. My fundamentals are also pretty good. I am potting a lot of balls and making clear progress every week.
Obviously as I pot more balls my natural instincts will take over. Things will become more natural.
Yet even though I was away from the game a long time, the muscle memory from my youth … I still have it.
Learning to shoot at such a young age is like learning a language. Some things I just know that players who started later in life don’t. Some tuff shots I can still make that better players than me struggle with.
The issue is consistency. Of habit. Preshot route, stroke, follow thru, thinking several balls ahead. It’s coming, but we all know what that involves.
I am a fast learner, however, and things tend to stick. My fundamentals are also pretty good. I am potting a lot of balls and making clear progress every week.
Obviously as I pot more balls my natural instincts will take over. Things will become more natural.
Yet even though I was away from the game a long time, the muscle memory from my youth … I still have it.
Learning to shoot at such a young age is like learning a language. Some things I just know that players who started later in life don’t. Some tuff shots I can still make that better players than me struggle with.
The issue is consistency. Of habit. Preshot route, stroke, follow thru, thinking several balls ahead. It’s coming, but we all know what that involves.
When I quit playing, ten ball wasn't on the roster. Bar box tourneys were small local events, with some exceptions. One hole wasn't played by young players. Imagine my surprise at coming back to see all the aforementioned changes occuring. I was lost given the new ball in hand and open table rules in 8 ball which I didn't play much of, or the break changes to 9 ball, how much the sport had grown, new cue companies, etc... Lot for an old fart to take in.
Excellent post, btw...When I quit playing, ten ball wasn't on the roster. Bar box tourneys were small local events, with some exceptions. One hole wasn't played by young players. Imagine my surprise at coming back to see all the aforementioned changes occuring. I was lost given the new ball in hand and open table rules in 8 ball which I didn't play much of, or the break changes to 9 ball, how much the sport had grown, new cue companies, etc... Lot for an old fart to take in.
Tugboat Whaley! His hustle was to come into the poolroom wearing the uniform of a tugboat captain, hat and all. And it worked too for the better part of thirty years. He was a good player who became a tournament official. A pool lifer, like me.
Thank you jbart65 for your first thread and an interesting one at that. Here's my take on Pool in America today compared to 30 or 40 years ago. First of all overall levels of participation are way down across the country. Only twenty years ago pool was still one of the most popular participant sporting activites in the country with close to 40 million saying they played the game at least a few times a year (like once a month to once a week or more). I think we were number three back then after walking/hiking and swimming I believe. What I do know for sure is that pool was way ahead of tennis and golf and running neck and neck with bowling. I think you can find the actual stats on the BCA website.
That's all changed in the last twenty years. Pool participation is barely over twenty million a year now. The number of poolrooms has dropped dramatically, although home table sales are up, so that's a good thing. Pro pool has changed too. It has become an accepted worldwide sport, with major tournaments held all over the globe, and some decent prize money for the first time in eons. There are actually working pool pros making a good living at the game. As recently as ten years ago nearly every pool professional was scratching to make a living. Unfortunately that has not translated to the United States. We have less than a handful of successful pro players here. There are only a few major tournaments held on our shores, and the big poolroom events still reign supreme here. Almost the same as it was twenty plus years ago, when most of the tournaments were held in poolrooms.
The good news for pool enthusiasts is that pool has become a major worldwide sport, being played pretty much everywhere. Worldwide participation is at an all time high, probably in the hundreds of millions who play on a regular basis. I have heard that in China alone there are over 100 million active recreational players.
One other thing I noticed is that, like you, the guys who have tables at home and play in local tournaments typically become good players. Not pros, but good! In my day you had to hang in poolrooms to learn the game. There were no videos and other tutorials to study. So we went to the poolroom and paid our dues, playing better players, observing and asking questions. You got that part right! So there may be more good amateur players here than ever before. That's why you will often see a no-name player knock off a big gun in a pro tournament. So many good amateurs don't follow the pro circuit of events and only play locally for the most part. They have jobs and families to support.
Thanks again jbart.
That's all changed in the last twenty years. Pool participation is barely over twenty million a year now. The number of poolrooms has dropped dramatically, although home table sales are up, so that's a good thing. Pro pool has changed too. It has become an accepted worldwide sport, with major tournaments held all over the globe, and some decent prize money for the first time in eons. There are actually working pool pros making a good living at the game. As recently as ten years ago nearly every pool professional was scratching to make a living. Unfortunately that has not translated to the United States. We have less than a handful of successful pro players here. There are only a few major tournaments held on our shores, and the big poolroom events still reign supreme here. Almost the same as it was twenty plus years ago, when most of the tournaments were held in poolrooms.
The good news for pool enthusiasts is that pool has become a major worldwide sport, being played pretty much everywhere. Worldwide participation is at an all time high, probably in the hundreds of millions who play on a regular basis. I have heard that in China alone there are over 100 million active recreational players.
One other thing I noticed is that, like you, the guys who have tables at home and play in local tournaments typically become good players. Not pros, but good! In my day you had to hang in poolrooms to learn the game. There were no videos and other tutorials to study. So we went to the poolroom and paid our dues, playing better players, observing and asking questions. You got that part right! So there may be more good amateur players here than ever before. That's why you will often see a no-name player knock off a big gun in a pro tournament. So many good amateurs don't follow the pro circuit of events and only play locally for the most part. They have jobs and families to support.
Thanks again jbart.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
Yeah, I knew some of us old timers would remember him. The last time I saw him was at Cochrans resting on one of the back tables one afternoon.
It is amazing to me the resources available to learn the nuances of the game. You'd think that might make pool more popular here.
When I was a kid, there were a few books available (Robert Byrne) and that was pretty much it. It was hard to learn except by doing what I did. Try all kinds of seemingly crazy stuff that, it turned out, wasn't so crazy. Even so, I and many others had big gaps in our games.
The expense of playing is also prohibitive for most trying to learn the game.
I help a young guy who is learning, but he can only afford to play 4-6 hours a week. I can go home and practice as much as I want. This year I am potting at least 15 bank shots a day as part of my daily practice sessions. That's 5,500 shots alone. It would cost quite a bit if I was doing all this at the pool hall.
And while I am familiar with the best pros like Gorst, Filler, FSB, Shaw, SVB - not to mention characters like Jay Helfert! - most players at my hall aren't familiar with the pro scene.
Which makes me curious why there has been an uptick in pool table sales. The pandemic sent sales soaring because everyone was indoors. But sales are returning to pre-pandemic levels based on my conversations with local dealers.