the throw stroke

Bob Jewett said:
A list of about two dozen strokes is available in the two articles:

http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-10.pdf

http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-11.pdf

although there are some people who claim there is only one stroke. I think the "stroke slip" is, for most players, an idiotic attempt to fix other flaws in their mechanics by layering on another mistake.

But to answer your question, I think an advantage of either kind of slip is that you might eliminate swerving of the back-hand during the slip. It could, conceivably make your stroke straighter. I think there are better ways to do that.
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Thank you Bob. I was beginning to wonder if the board had gone insane.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

Between you and me, sir, I would not suggest using this sort of stroke. I think one loses a bit of control on how they address the cue-ball which is why I (and most players around my level and better) choose not to. I simply wouldn't want to try and draw or follow a specific distance using that stroke. Half a tip too high or low and you can find yourself 3 feet from where you wanted to be! I know there are players out there that employ such methods and are well capable of beating someone like me so it's difficult to argue. All I know is, you'll never find using a slip-stroke for cash.


Did you make it to the play-offs this season? I bowed out due to the fact that I can't win prizes as a non-paying player.
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I agree totally being an Ole' Timer myself ;) I've seen it and it is not a good method to start trying! on todays fast synthetic cloths it just isn't neccesary!
 
MrLucky said:
I agree totally being an Ole' Timer myself ;) I've seen it and it is not a good method to start trying! on todays fast synthetic cloths it just isn't neccesary!
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I'm glad you agree but just on a side-note, which cloths are synthetic? I know Simonis is 100% wool. At least, that's what I thought.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I'm glad you agree but just on a side-note, which cloths are synthetic? I know Simonis is 100% wool. At least, that's what I thought.
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A description of Simonis cloth is available at

http://www.iwansimonis.com/english/products_en.html

and it doesn't look like any of their pool cloths are 100% wool. Even 300 Rapide is part nylon. All of the snooker and English pool cloths are 100% wool.
 
I didn't read more than the first post so excuse me if it's been said... The reason why this works is because you are throwing the cue "through the ball." If you ever notice when watching great players they can draw the cue ball back a long way with little speed on the shot. How do they do this? How can you do this? Simple, think of the physics...

When you shoot the cue ball your tip does not simply contact the cue ball as most people assume. The tip of the cue pushes through the cue ball, meaning that it(the tip) stays in contact with the cue ball somewhat through your follow through(and your reason why a good follow through is important). So what does this mean? Well to get maximum spin you want your cue to stay at a constant speed then coming to a stop after the cue ball and the tip stop making contact. The smoother and more fluid your stroke the better english you will get on the cue ball.

I hope that made sense, if not I will explain further if need be.
 
third_i said:
I didn't read more than the first post so excuse me if it's been said... The reason why this works is because you are throwing the cue "through the ball." If you ever notice when watching great players they can draw the cue ball back a long way with little speed on the shot. How do they do this? How can you do this? Simple, think of the physics...

When you shoot the cue ball your tip does not simply contact the cue ball as most people assume. The tip of the cue pushes through the cue ball, meaning that it(the tip) stays in contact with the cue ball somewhat through your follow through(and your reason why a good follow through is important). So what does this mean? Well to get maximum spin you want your cue to stay at a constant speed then coming to a stop after the cue ball and the tip stop making contact. The smoother and more fluid your stroke the better english you will get on the cue ball.

I hope that made sense, if not I will explain further if need be.
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The underlying problem with what you say is that the vast majority of the time, you don't want to use "maximum" spin. The amount of spin you wish to employ is usually very specific. The slip-grip (or however you wish to refer to it) doesn't address the ball as accurately as most players prefer.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
The underlying problem with what you say is that the vast majority of the time, you don't want to use "maximum" spin. The amount of spin you wish to employ is usually very specific. The slip-grip (or however you wish to refer to it) doesn't address the ball as accurately as most players prefer.
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You are exactly right "maximum spin" spin is rarely used unless you're showing off. But with the fluid stroke you can repeat the amount of spin you get every time. My point was that the reason why the "slip-grip" or throwing the cue into the cue ball is that because it's being thrown that it's moving at a constant rate until it is caught(motion stopped). While this type of stroke might work, it is inaccurate and should be avoided.
 
slip stroke...

I think the slip stroke or stroke slip is just a crude way to ensure that you are letting the cue do the work. Consistency goes down whenever you force the cue through the CB. By letting the Cue slip through your hands you do ensure that you don't force the cue through the CB, but it is a rather crude way that lessens overall control when compared to other methods.
 
third_i said:
You are exactly right "maximum spin" spin is rarely used unless you're showing off. But with the fluid stroke you can repeat the amount of spin you get every time. My point was that the reason why the "slip-grip" or throwing the cue into the cue ball is that because it's being thrown that it's moving at a constant rate until it is caught(motion stopped). While this type of stroke might work, it is inaccurate and should be avoided.
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I'm going to side with Jewitt on this and say it's really a poor short-cut to proper mechanics. In the long-run, you're probably better off avoiding this method.
 
CaptainJR said:
If I'm understanding this correctly, since the stick is left go of before contact,,,,,,,,,,,d?
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the grip isn't necessarily released before the contact. i'd like to see someone who releases the cue before contact. i don't know where they get their control.
 
Cane said:
I just call it "Throwing the cue". My grip is so loose and relaxed that when my grip hand reaches the finish position in the stroke, the cue slips forward in my hand. I'm sure it slips a little at impact also, but have never really looked at it on tape to say for sure.

later,
Bob
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in some way, whether obvious or not, i think everyone who has a very loose grip let's go of the cue in some way or another.
 
Bob Jewett said:
A list of about two dozen strokes is available in the two articles:

http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-10.pdf

http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-11.pdf

although there are some people who claim there is only one stroke. I think the "stroke slip" is, for most players, an idiotic attempt to fix other flaws in their mechanics by layering on another mistake.

But to answer your question, I think an advantage of either kind of slip is that you might eliminate swerving of the back-hand during the slip. It could, conceivably make your stroke straighter. I think there are better ways to do that.
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thanks for the links bob. very informative articles you've compiled there.:)
 
Famous slip stroker

Jude Rosenstock said:
I'm going to side with Jewitt on this and say it's really a poor short-cut to proper mechanics. In the long-run, you're probably better off avoiding this method.
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I don't know? Seems to work okay for Efren!;) :cool:
 
Bob Jewett said:
although there are some people who claim there is only one stroke. I think the "stroke slip" is, for most players, an idiotic attempt to fix other flaws in their mechanics by layering on another mistake.

But to answer your question, I think an advantage of either kind of slip is that you might eliminate swerving of the back-hand during the slip. It could, conceivably make your stroke straighter. I think there are better ways to do that.
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Bob, Could you qualify that answer please, especially the statement "an idiotic attempt to fix other flaws in their mechanics".

I'm not arguing with you, I just want to know what flaws a stroke slip or slip stroke fixes. I didn't start using it to fix anything. It's how I was taught when I was 8 years old and was never taught that it covered up flaws, just that it was the stroke my mentor used and it worked pretty damn well for him.

My "slip" doesn't occur until after the cue ball is already gone. It's not really a function of anything other than having my grip so relaxed that the cue moves slightly forward upon FINISHING my stroke. So, I'm asking what is wrong with this, not that I'm going to change it at 49 years old... I mean, I run racks this way, I have a good command of the cue ball and I can put OB's in the center of the pocket, but I do want to know why you consider a stroke slip an idiotic attempt to fix flaws.

Later,
Bob
 
bruin70 said:
efern doesn't throw his cue at the cb. if he lets go, it's AFTER contact
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Bruin, you're absolutely correct on this. Efren lets the cue slip at the finish of his stroke, not during his stroke. That, btw, is what I do... I call it "throwing the cue" because that's just what I've always heard it called. I may be using the wrong terminology.

Later,
Bob
 
third_i said:
You are exactly right "maximum spin" spin is rarely used unless you're showing off. But with the fluid stroke you can repeat the amount of spin you get every time. My point was that the reason why the "slip-grip" or throwing the cue into the cue ball is that because it's being thrown that it's moving at a constant rate until it is caught(motion stopped). While this type of stroke might work, it is inaccurate and should be avoided.
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can you give me a few examples of players who throw their cue at the cb? i assume you mean BEFORE contact, yes? cuz i don't see it.

because for a player to THROW his cue at the cb, it would mean he has NO follow through....that he stops his arm short of the contact and releases the cue. if he has a follow through, then he is still holding the cue upon contact, which means he is not throwing his cue at the cb.

i don't think ANY good player does this(throwing the cue at the cb),,,if i am to take your meaning literally. because releasing the cue before contact and throwing it at the cb means forfeiting any control and feel of the stroke.
 
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Cane said:
Bruin, you're absolutely correct on this. Efren lets the cue slip at the finish of his stroke, not during his stroke. That, btw, is what I do... I call it "throwing the cue" because that's just what I've always heard it called. I may be using the wrong terminology.

Later,
Bob
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i think many players with loose grips do what you do, but it seems to be confusing the crap out of everybody. no sane player throws his cue AT the cb.
 
Wayne Norcross, world class straight pool player and TD at DannyK's, says he releases the cue before impact. He's sixty eight, and regularly runs 100+ balls.

He says if you let go of the cue, you don't have to worry about twisting it off line as you hit the ball.

Control is achieved by tip placement and speed of the stroke, as in any other shot.
 
JohnnyP said:
Wayne Norcross, world class straight pool player and TD at DannyK's, says he releases the cue before impact. He's sixty eight, and regularly runs 100+ balls.

He says if you let go of the cue, you don't have to worry about twisting it off line as you hit the ball.

Control is achieved by tip placement and speed of the stroke, as in any other shot.
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Yeah but, he's a straight pool player. I don't wanna take anything away from his game but really good straight pool is about pattern-play. There's less emphasis on long-position. Straight pool players consciously avoid shots that require a lot of spin. A lot of straight pool is a little draw here, a little follow there and stop shots. I can name a few 100 ball runners who simply can't play nine-ball.
 
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