the throw stroke

[royuco77]

while practicing yesterday on a humid day on very slow house cloth, i kinda found a different kind of stroke. i've never read about this kind of stroke on all the pool books (books by capelle, byrne, and fels) i had, so i thought that it might be a flaw in the stroke.

i am talking about the throw stroke. my hands stay in the middle of the wrap in the warm-up strokes and when i hit the cue ball, i throw the cue forward catching the cue in the end of the butt (almost near the rubber bumper). i found out that using this kind of stroke makes drawing and following the cue-ball effortless when i'm playing on slow house cloth. it is kind of unorthodox when you imagine it, but for some reason it works for me.

have you encountered this kind of stroke? if so, i would really like to know the logic how this kind of unorthodox stroke works. is this kind of stroke documented in other pool books?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

while practicing yesterday on a humid day on very slow house cloth, i kinda found a different kind of stroke. i've never read about this kind of stroke on all the pool books (books by capelle, byrne, and fels) i had, so i thought that it might be a flaw in the stroke.

i am talking about the throw stroke. my hands stay in the middle of the wrap in the warm-up strokes and when i hit the cue ball, i throw the cue forward catching the cue in the end of the butt (almost near the rubber bumper). i found out that using this kind of stroke makes drawing and following the cue-ball effortless when i'm playing on slow house cloth. it is kind of unorthodox when you imagine it, but for some reason it works for me.

have you encountered this kind of stroke? if so, i would really like to know the logic how this kind of unorthodox stroke works. is this kind of stroke documented in other pool books?

It's called a "Slip Stroke". I can't quite remember which pro made it famous but you're not the first to use it. The shooter releases the cue during his execution and catches it at the end of the follow-through. It is unorthodox but it's not necessarily the wrong way of shooting. It's just a bit unusual, that's all.

 

[mjantti]

I think you are talking about "slip stroke" ? Many great players used the slip stroke, including Mosconi (I think) before the 70s. Well, as you pointed out, it might work on slow cloth better. And the equipment wasn't really to the par of nowadays equipment before the 70s...

EDIT: I have to admit, I've seen a couple of tapes with old-timers shooting with slip stroke and there's something magical about it

 

[Fleece3]

It's called a "Slip Stroke". I can't quite remember which pro made it famous but you're not the first to use it. The shooter releases the cue during his execution and catches it at the end of the follow-through. It is unorthodox but it's not necessarily the wrong way of shooting. It's just a bit unusual, that's all.

Hey Jude,

You never told me about this!!!!! %$#^#^$

Is this why you beat me in the league playoff???

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Hey Jude,

You never told me about this!!!!! %$#^#^$

Is this why you beat me in the league playoff???

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

Between you and me, sir, I would not suggest using this sort of stroke. I think one loses a bit of control on how they address the cue-ball which is why I (and most players around my level and better) choose not to. I simply wouldn't want to try and draw or follow a specific distance using that stroke. Half a tip too high or low and you can find yourself 3 feet from where you wanted to be! I know there are players out there that employ such methods and are well capable of beating someone like me so it's difficult to argue. All I know is, you'll never find using a slip-stroke for cash.


Did you make it to the play-offs this season? I bowed out due to the fact that I can't win prizes as a non-paying player.

 

[Tommy-D]

> The slip-stroke Jude is talking about here was best and most famously executed by Jimmy Moore,The Cowboy. Another thing he did that baffled some was that he practically fouled the cueball on every shot,because he would place his tip right on the cloth,as close to the BASE of the ball as possible,on his warm up strokes. I'm talking 1/8 inch past the center of the ball,if he dropped his arm any the tip would pop the cue ball straight up. He was a killer with it too,winning a World Championship against Luther Lassiter in a 3000 point game,his high run was 185,from behind. I've also seen many modern day players employ this. They might not be as pronounced with it,but the influence of the Filipino contingent seems to be creeping up on all of us. Tommy D.

 

[Fleece3]

Did you make it to the play-offs this season? I bowed out due to the fact that I can't win prizes as a non-paying player.

I didn't play this season. I will be back for the spring/summer.

See Ya Then

 

[LowEnglish]

It's called a "Slip Stroke". I can't quite remember which pro made it famous but you're not the first to use it. The shooter releases the cue during his execution and catches it at the end of the follow-through. It is unorthodox but it's not necessarily the wrong way of shooting. It's just a bit unusual, that's all.

Actually it's called the stroke slip. There is a difference between the two. The stroke slip is when on the forward stroke you let the cue slip forward a few inches. The slip stroke is where you slip your grip back a few inches on the backstroke and then stroke forward normally. The slip stroke is more common, but you should realize that they are two different strokes.

 

[Ky Boy]

Regarded by some to be 'unorthodox' this stroke has been used by many players. Some local players incorporated it into their game from watching Corn Bread Red. He commonly used this type of stroke although I am not sure what the purpose of it is. Red...what a guy!! I first met 'Red' at Steepleton's Billiards in Lexington, Ky at their big yearly tournament in 1996. He appeared as old as the hills but as polished as a diamond.

 

[CaptainJR]

A couple of weeks ago, after being eliminated for the Sunday 9-ball tournament at Ivory Billiards in York Pa., a couple of us were talking pool. In particular we were talking about the mistakes we make. One of the guys, that plays well enough to win this tournament any given Sunday, talked about having to make sure he doesn't use a slip stoke because it causes him to miss to often. Me being familiar with this slip stoke that you are all talking about here, we talked about it for about five minutes or so. Him saying how bad a thing it was and me saying that some people have been rather successful with it.

As the conversation went on I finally said, "Are we talking about the same thing?" When he demonstrated what he was talking about, I started to laugh. He would take a couple practice strokes then during the back swing of his hitting stoke his hand would slide back a couple of inches then retake his grip and bring the stick forward for the hit. We had a good laugh about it then.

 

[Cornerman]

i am talking about the throw stroke. my hands stay in the middle of the wrap in the warm-up strokes and when i hit the cue ball, i throw the cue forward catching the cue in the end of the butt (almost near the rubber bumper).

have you encountered this kind of stroke?

Some people call this the reverse slip stroke, I believe.

if so, i would really like to know the logic how this kind of unorthodox stroke works. is this kind of stroke documented in other pool books?

The logic would be that only the cue stick and its weight are affecting the collision with the cueball, and that you aren't holding up the cue (overly decelerating). IMO, there isn't much difference in end results compared to a really loose wrist. But, if it works, more power to you.

Fred

 

[CaptainJR]

Some people call this the reverse slip stroke, I believe.



The logic would be that only the cue stick and its weight are affecting the collision with the cueball, and that you aren't holding up the cue (overly decelerating). IMO, there isn't much difference in end results compared to a really loose wrist. But, if it works, more power to you.

Fred

If I'm understanding this correctly, since the stick is left go of before contact, at contact with the object ball the stick would have to be decelerating. Isn't the norm to try have the cue be slightly accelerating or at a minimum maintain it's speed?

 

[alpine9430]

Slip Stroke

I believe Timothy White of the Billiard Sanctuary uses a similar technique which I think he calls it a Slip Grip.
Tim just joined the AZB Forum this month under the name AOyster so maybe he can add provide some to this thread.

 

[Andrew Manning]

> The slip-stroke Jude is talking about here was best and most famously executed by Jimmy Moore,The Cowboy. Another thing he did that baffled some was that he practically fouled the cueball on every shot,because he would place his tip right on the cloth,as close to the BASE of the ball as possible,on his warm up strokes. I'm talking 1/8 inch past the center of the ball,if he dropped his arm any the tip would pop the cue ball straight up. He was a killer with it too,winning a World Championship against Luther Lassiter in a 3000 point game,his high run was 185,from behind. I've also seen many modern day players employ this. They might not be as pronounced with it,but the influence of the Filipino contingent seems to be creeping up on all of us. Tommy D.

And it's hard to argue with the action Jimmy Moore got on the cue ball using his slip stroke. Mike Massey envies the draw stroke Jimmy Moore had.

-Andrew

 

[jsp]

The logic would be that only the cue stick and its weight are affecting the collision with the cueball, and that you aren't holding up the cue (overly decelerating). IMO, there isn't much difference in end results compared to a really loose wrist. But, if it works, more power to you.

It's not so much similar to a loose wrist, but a loose grip (a loose grip would cause a loose wrist). This "slip" stroke would have very similar CB action compared to a stroke using a very loose grip. The motive for these strokes is to apply significant draw on the CB without imparting as much forward momentum on the CB, compared to a draw shot with a firm grip and firm stroke. Basically, the aim is to provide the same CB spin (angular momentum) without as much forward movement (linear momentum). With a loose grip (or no grip at all), the cue tip is allowed to roll underneath the CB during the impact, causing the CB to spin more compare to a stroke with a firm grip.

This would be helpful on medium to long draw shots where you have a slight angle and you ideally want to draw the CB straight back. With a firm grip and stroke, a firm hit would cause the CB to travel some distance tangential to the impact point before the CB's draw spin takes hold allowing it to move backwards. The distance the CB travels in this tangential direction is proportional to the forward momentum of the CB. Using a very loose wrist or the slip stroke (or reverse slip, however you want to call it), you can minimize this tangential distance while maintaining the same amount of reverse spin.

 

[Cornerman]

It's not so much similar to a loose wrist, but a loose grip (a loose grip would cause a loose wrist). This "slip" stroke would have very similar CB action compared to a stroke using a very loose grip.

That's a good distinction. I figure my loose wrist will automatically have a loose grip, but other people grip their cue differently than I do.


Fred

 

[Cane]

I just call it "Throwing the cue". My grip is so loose and relaxed that when my grip hand reaches the finish position in the stroke, the cue slips forward in my hand. I'm sure it slips a little at impact also, but have never really looked at it on tape to say for sure.

later,
Bob

 

[Craig Fales]

But what if your cue slip stroked right out of your hand and lanced the person on the next table....LOLz
________

 

[Cane]

But what if your cue slip stroked right out of your hand and lanced the person on the next table....LOLz

Sometimes that could be a GOOD thing!

 

[Bob Jewett]

... have you encountered this kind of stroke? if so, i would really like to know the logic how this kind of unorthodox stroke works. is this kind of stroke documented in other pool books?

A list of about two dozen strokes is available in the two articles:

http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-10.pdf

http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-11.pdf

although there are some people who claim there is only one stroke. I think the "stroke slip" is, for most players, an idiotic attempt to fix other flaws in their mechanics by layering on another mistake.

But to answer your question, I think an advantage of either kind of slip is that you might eliminate swerving of the back-hand during the slip. It could, conceivably make your stroke straighter. I think there are better ways to do that.